where to find Polyiso blue board

[Virgil Jones]

So I went to home depot and lowes and a local roofing company supply house looking for the polyisocyanurate "blue board".  None of these people had ever heard of it.  I called a couple of Manufacturers of Polyiso list on the web and they never heard of it.  I can find "tan board" with metal coating and "tan board" with fiberglass coating. 
Any suggestions on where to find the Polyiso without coating?  Also, is the tan board the same as the blue board (sans coating)?
For some reason I can't seem to find a tech guy to talk to at the manufacturers I contacted.
Thanks

 

[Reducto]

The blue and pink stuff is Extruded Polystyrene Foam, the tan stuff is Polyiso. They have similar properties but are not the same thing. Polyiso has slightly better R values and seems a little harder to find.

If you want something without a coating you probably have to go with the blue stuff. Why don't you want the foil backing?

 

[TrainChaser]

Don't go by the color, read the label.

Polyisocyanurate is the name of the material -- some of it is yellow, and some of it is white, depending on who is making it. There are at least seven different manufacturers.

The fine pink, blue or green foam is called eXtruded PolyStyrene or XPS; it's not polyiso.

The pellet-like styrofoam is called Extruded PolyStyrene, or EPS.

 

[Virgil Jones]

thanks for the replies.
I apparently was confused about the color stuff.

Locally I can find 1/2" tan polyiso with metal coatings on both sides.  I thought this would be a problem putting layers together to get the thickness I would need....metal to metal inside the wall several times.

The other option locally is tan polyiso with fiberglass coatings on both sides from a roofing supplier.  This comes in 4'x8' sheets of 1" or 2"...it also comes in 4'x4' sheets that are sloping 1" TO 1/2" side to side.  

Any reason NOT TO use the fiberglass coated polyiso?  I would then have fiberglass to fiberglass sandwiched in the walls???
Thanks

 

[TrainChaser]

How much curve do you need to deal with?

If you've got curves, the 1/2" can be applied directly to the curves w/o kerfing. Just add the layers. Use an adhesive that works with metal. Spots or lines of adhesive should provide enough hold for what you're doing; you shouldn't need to completely cover the surfaces (like with a roller) to join them -- that's overkill.

If you want to use the thicker foam (1" or 2") on curved walls, you'll either need to kerf it, or cut it in strips and apply the strips one at a time, butting the edges snugly.

I've never seen fiberglass coated rigid insulation. Presumably, you would just use an adhesive that is suitable. If you kerf it, wear a mask.

 

[BlackNBlue]

Polyiso is white, yellow, or tan. I suppose it can be dyed blue but I've never seen or heard of this. Blue or pink stuff is extruded polystyrene. It is nominally slightly inferior to polyiso as far as R-value, but it holds this R-value at really cold temperatures, while polyiso tests great at 25C but rapidly loses R-value as you get below freezing. Also, polyiso itself is very fragile and practically must be faced with a backing material, usually either fiberglass-reinforced paper, or aluminum foil. That fiberglass is very thin and provides no additional insulation; its sole purpose is to keep the polyiso from crumbling during installation.

 

[Virgil Jones]

Polyiso is white, yellow, or tan. I suppose it can be dyed blue but I've never seen or heard of this. Blue or pink stuff is extruded polystyrene. It is nominally slightly inferior to polyiso as far as R-value, but it holds this R-value at really cold temperatures, while polyiso tests great at 25C but rapidly loses R-value as you get below freezing. Also, polyiso itself is very fragile and practically must be faced with a backing material, usually either fiberglass-reinforced paper, or aluminum foil. That fiberglass is very thin and provides no additional insulation; its sole purpose is to keep the polyiso from crumbling during installation.

now that really confuses me.  I thought everything I have been reading on this forum says polyiso is the thing to use.  But, if it can crumble over time as the van earthquakes down the road??

Please remind me...is the polystyrene more dangerous in the van environment (both would be INSIDE the walls) than polyiso over the time of living in the van?

 

[GotSmart]

now that really confuses me.  I thought everything I have been reading on this forum says polyiso is the thing to use.  But, if it can crumble over time as the van earthquakes down the road??

Please remind me...is the polystyrene more dangerous in the van environment (both would be INSIDE the walls) than polyiso over the time of living in the van?

I have a piece of polyiso sitting outside my back door where it is exposed to the wind and weather.  It is constantly pushed around by the winds.  It is still staying together, where when this happened to polystyrene board, it would deteriorate and crumble. 

In looking at the industry R~Testing information, there is a slight loss of insulation factor in sub 0 temps.  A small, not a large one.  This depends on the specific manufacture of the product. 

Polyiso is definitely the way to go.

 

[Matlock]

Try a search for Rigid Foam Board.
Insulation for the purpose other than a house /business isn't something that manufacturers design for. Ok maybe the space shuttle used something exotic.
Production and distribution of products are based on geographic location as well as where it will be applied to a structure.
Color isn't a determination of anything unless you're talking about a particular manufacturers product.
EPS is the stuff that crumbles easily. It's the same material that's used for the packing peanuts. I don't like it.

Rigid foam board comes in 1/4", 1/2", 3/4" 1", etc and usually are in 4x8 sheets. The 1/4" stuff has a fold every 24" and is 48" wide by X long..(about) and around here it's used on exterior before siding the building.
A lot of the 4X8 stuff has foil on one side and a plastic sheet on the other side. In a camper/van install with or without foil/plastic isn't an issue.

The bubble wrap product isn't included above as it is not used in any industry as a stand alone insulation.

 

[BlackNBlue]

Polyiso won't crumble from typical chassis vibrations, it'll just fall apart with any abrasion to it directly. The facing prevents that.

In looking at the industry R~Testing information, there is a slight loss of insulation factor in sub 0 temps.  A small, not a large one.  

See attached. "Slight" and "small" seem like gross understatements.

Take it with a grain of salt. The data comes from here, and the researcher - Achilles Karagiozis - is employed by Owens Corning who manufacture, exclusively as far as I know, XPS and not polyiso. Even with that grain of salt, there appears to be consensus, primarily among energy-conscious builders in northern Canada, that polyiso performs poorly at really cold temperatures. Note that the chart shows average temperature. -15C outside and +25C inside is an average of 5C, at which temp the polyiso is still ok.

Furthermore, the effect is attributed to the condensation of polyiso's blowing agent. With old reclaimed insulation, the blowing agent may be long gone, reducing the nominal R-value but also reducing the cold-weather effect described.

 

[GotSmart]

Polyiso won't crumble from typical chassis vibrations, it'll just fall apart with any abrasion to it directly. The facing prevents that.


See attached. "Slight" and "small" seem like gross understatements.

Take it with a grain of salt. The data comes from here, and the researcher - Achilles Karagiozis - is employed by Owens Corning who manufacture, exclusively as far as I know, XPS and not polyiso. Even with that grain of salt, there appears to be consensus, primarily among energy-conscious builders in northern Canada, that polyiso performs poorly at really cold temperatures. Note that the chart shows average temperature. -15C outside and +25C inside is an average of 5C, at which temp the polyiso is still ok.

Furthermore, the effect is attributed to the condensation of polyiso's blowing agent. With old reclaimed insulation, the blowing agent may be long gone, reducing the nominal R-value but also reducing the cold-weather effect described.

Now I am confused.  The chart is showing a temp insulating factor drop of .01 to .02* in close to a 200* difference. (Two tenths of a degree difference in two hundred degrees)  If that is not slight, what is?  Also where is Polyiso compared to these products? 

If it really performs so poorly, why is it used in the refrigeration industry?  like in insulation of cryogenic liquids?  

The performance difference is marginal.

https://www.dyplastproducts.com/

Achilles Karagiozis had an agenda when he did these tests.  It is not a double blind study, but a deliberate action to prove his theory.  

The stuff works, and I am no way going into cryonics level cold.  It does not matter in real life. At least not mine.

 

[TrainChaser]

The search for absolute perfection continues. *rolley eyes*

 

[BlackNBlue]

Now I am confused.  The chart is showing a temp insulating factor drop of .01 to .02* in close to a 200* difference. (Two tenths of a degree difference in two hundred degrees)  If that is not slight, what is?  Also where is Polyiso compared to these products? 

Where are you getting 200 degrees? Polyiso is PIC in the legend (ccSPF is closed-cell polyurethane spray foam). The chart shows that it has thermal conductivity of ~0.024 W/m*K at a mean temperature of +25C, and ~0.074 at -15. That's a 3-fold increase in conductivity, meaning that R-value at -15 is less than a third of what it is at ASTM test temperature (about 25C). That R6.5 (in American units) becomes about R2.1. That's not slight.

If it really performs so poorly, why is it used in the refrigeration industry?  like in insulation of cryogenic liquids?

https://www.dyplastproducts.com/

Achilles Karagiozis had an agenda when he did these tests. It is not a double blind study, but a deliberate action to prove his theory.

Yes, that company uses polyiso. Either their product is inferior and their testing and marketing are deceptive, or it ends up being adequate anyway, or Achilles' study is somewhere between flawed and outright fabricated.

I don't claim to know which of these is true, and I have no interest in *who* is right, only *what* the truth is.

1. The ASTM procedure required to make marketing claims about insulation seems flawed to me.
2. This chart claims to show the truth beyond the ASTM number.
3. It's consistent with anecdotal reports from northern Canadian builders that polyiso doesn't live up to its label.
1 + 2 + 3 = I cautiously trust the chart, and thus far have yet to read a debunking or rebuttal of it. But I would be *very* interested in doing so - I don't care whose ego gets damaged, so long as the truth comes out - but "everyone uses it" and "he works for someone who makes a competing product" are cautionary statements - grains of salt - not disproof or even counter-evidence.

The stuff works, and I am no way going into cryonics level cold.  It does not matter in real life. At least not mine.

Yes, it does work. I have 4 inches of the stuff all around my van and doing fine when it's -27 outside.

 

[VanKitten]

I'm bringing this thread back, because I am looking to purchase polyiso without the metal sheeting on it.

No where I have seen actually has it in stock.

Home Depot website says they do not have it in the store, and cannot ship it.
Same with Lowes.

I'd order it online, but cannot find a supplier.

Only other store in the Grand valoey is Sutherlands, which has nothing in polyiso to offer.

Anyone know where to order this?

 

[dr_nelson]

I'm bringing this thread back, because I am looking to purchase polyiso without the metal sheeting on it.

No where I have seen actually has it in stock.

Home Depot website says they do not have it in the store, and cannot ship it.
Same with Lowes.

I'd order it online, but cannot find a supplier.  

Only other store in the Grand valoey is Sutherlands, which has nothing in polyiso to offer.

Anyone know where to order this?

I have the same problem and found EnergyGuard boards at Home Depot - and I am considering those for insulation. Those are Polyisocyanurate and come in 1/2 or 1 inch thicknesses (R3.6 or R6.1 respectively).

I am not sure about metal sheeting on it, though...

 

[Vagabound]

My post is somewhat related -- method of location. Although I wasn't looking for polyiso, I noticed that in the Southwest, I was having a very hard time finding an assortment of insulation types. For example, I never did see polyiso, and I could only find XPS in small 2-foot by 2-foot squares. The coffee cup foam (EPS) was the most commonly available.

I did eventually find some other types in 4x8 sheets, but it was only by looking at all stores in an area. For example, checking all Home Depot stores in one city. The reason is that, even within one city, some stores will stock it and some stores will not.

Hope that helps,

Tom

 

[dr_nelson]

I have not tried these, but maybe it helps.
They sell 'used' insulation boards such as polyiso boards and apparently they are half the price or even cheaper (but NOT new):
http://www.greeninsulationgroup.com/
http://www.insulationdepot.com/


It is an option for me, who lives in a warmer state and where it might be harder or more expensive to find insulation boards.

 

[TrainChaser]

Just out of curiosity, why do you not want the metal sheeting?

 

[VanKitten]

Since I already have reflectix ..it is redundant. Plus it would leave me with metal to metal in the install

I looked at greeninsulationgroup. Depending on the cost....I might just go with the metal sheeting anyway if the cost of shipping is too much.

 

[CautionToTheWind]

Bob was able to find some out in the middle of no where...?