When Moderators Become Censors

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kaBLOOnie Boonster

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I enjoyed a lively discussion here recently, and then the Moderator closed the thread. Why so? But I've noticed that trend lately on CRVL.

There weren't any ad hominem attacks by anybody. The comments were intelligent and well-written. And the discussion stayed on track.

According to the moderator, the thread had too much "fear-mongering." People who are into DENIAL always accuse other people of being fear-mongers. The other day someday was having a useful discussion about insuring customized rigs. I am surprised a moderator didn't shut the thread down because it is "fear-mongering" to think that you need insurance. Aren't people who buy insurance pessimists or negative-thinkers? (facetious)

When an LEO in the forest comes up to your rig, dressed in military style clothing and weapons all around his belt, a person is hardly a "tin hat" conspiracy kook to become afraid.

The moderator also said the thread was causing "arguments." But I think they call that free speech and public discussion. I would rather read something a little controversial than a boring nut&bolts discussion about microscopic how-to details.

I don't think the moderator gave the real reason for closing the thread: that certain topics are BAD FOR BUSINESS, and that only purely Promotional threads will be permitted. I fully expect this thread to be immediately suppressed.
 
Although I am not a moderator I felt it proper the thread was terminated. It did not serve the purpose of this forum. [Did you read Bob's statement about the purpose of this forum?]

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk
 
It’s their forum and they can do what they want. That’s the bottom line. I’m sure as hell glad they work hard to keep the forum running.
 
kaBLOOnie Boonster said:
... I fully expect this thread to be immediately suppressed...

You spelled "ignored" wrong...lol.

Lemme know when you start a forum(even a freebie one), I'll stop in! I like chatting about whatever, but I try to limit it here because
 
I like the way this forum is moderated... these people do a good job of it and are always here working on it. That's so much better than an unmoderated free for all... and really, on the internet, this is a necessity. If you don't like it maybe another forum would make you happier? But I don't know of any that have no moderation. I say this from the point of view of having owned forums and Facebook groups. Moderation is a necessity.
 
I can only speak for myself. if you are talking about the thread I closed it was because of the wild conspiracy theories being posted that had nothing to do with original post.

I would like to point out that I requested in 2 different posts in that thread to stop it or the thread would be closed.

when I didn't stop what do you think was going to happen?

like I said in the thread, there are plenty of places on the internet to discuss that kind of stuff and CRVL is NOT one of them.

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"When an LEO in the forest comes up to your rig, dressed in military style clothing and weapons all around his belt, a person is hardly a "tin hat" conspiracy kook to become afraid"

really, that is sad you feel that way.

I have this happen all the time, I ask them if they would like a cup of coffee or a bottle of water. then offer them a seat in the shade and we usually sit and talk for awhile. I have had some great conversations with good people that way. when they leave I know that they have my back.

when the LEO has hundreds of square miles to cover and backup is hours away, how would you dress. I know I would be well armed. the only reason I can see to be afraid is if I was trying to hide something or I was doing something illegal. stop being so paranoid.

my 2 cents, highdesertranger
 
If ya wanna play in someone's yard, ya gotta play by their rules.
Ted
 
It's all part of the evil government conspiracy.

And I bet the Illuminati are involved somehow.

We are everywhere.
 
Spell illuminati backwards and add a .com and see what site pops up.
 
I might point out the statement about the approaching LEO was a logical fallacy of ad ignorantiam (appeal to ignorance), the implication that no one can disprove the presumption of an approaching LEO's hostile intent, therefore the LEO must have a malicious motive.  The argument ignores the possibility of other explanations, such as the LEO is friendly... or perhaps seeking applications for their next  paid camp host.  The absence of proof of correct conduct does not in and of itself prove misconduct.   Personally, I'd be more creeped out by some guy who came up to my rig wearing a leather mask and carrying a chain saw...  A uniformed LEO approaching  with tools still on the belt and not in hand... Meh!  Not a problem... just be friendly and respectful and talk with them. :cool:

I enjoy lively discussion too, as long as people can remain civil, respectful, and polite in tone.  We can agree to disagree or hold different opinions without attacking each other.  Though it does seem like some people experience problems with that simple construct.  Some folks even think it's acceptable to perform physical violence on someone if they disagree with a strongly held belief.  I used to referee those kind of fights all the time...  Fortunately, no one here is going to become violent over the internet.  The obstacle we have here in the forums is that printed words and written discussion may not accurately convey tone or emotion.  Subtle aspects of communication are lost because we can't see facial expression and body language, or hear inflection of speech.  A strongly held position or statement can easily be misinterpreted as impolite or disrespectful.  Emojis can help, as does labeling the intention (i.e. labeling a sarcastic statement as facetious).  I should point out that facetious statement when taken in context of the entirety of the post was a logical fallacy of slippery slope; I see that and I get the humor.  :)  

OP's post made me think what exactly should we consider out-of-bounds, and when should a moderator should step in?   I wholly agree with squashing ad hominem attacks.  Targeting or demeaning the individual rather than focusing on aspects of a topic is an unfair debate tactic.  However, I'm not so sure about closing threads under the blanket term of arguments.  I know the intention is to quell conflict, but there are two kinds of conflict, productive and unproductive.  I would suggest unproductive conflict a better terminology than argument.  Productive conflict is healthy discourse and should be embraced, even if somewhat uncomfortable at the moment.  Learning from each other and embracing diversity is how we grow personally and as a community, and this most often happens through productive conflict.  People need to recognize and be tolerant of productive conflict. 

However, some people are hyper-sensitive and have a super thin skin or a hair trigger when it comes to being offended.  That itself is an unfair debate tactic; playing the role of a victim is a veiled form of an ad hominem attack because it carries a presumption the other party is an oppressor.  I am highly suspect of situations where people act like professional victims, easily offended by every little thing including nuances of language, then scream foul and claim to be a victim.  After all, a forum participant's actions of signing-in and reading posts on a private forum are wholly voluntary.  If a thread or post makes someone uncomfortable, I say don't read it, don't respond, move on to the next thread, and just be happy.    

I recently read a thread to the effect that nomadic life should be legalized...  That was a logical fallacy of false dilemma, and I thought it somewhat humorous to presume nomads are illegal, so I chuckled and moved on.  Several others in our community responded by educating the OP and pointing out the errors in logic and facts. The dialogue of the replies was polite yet direct.  It may have been uncomfortable for the OP in the moment, and they could have easily cried foul and played the role of a victim.  That type of situation tends to be self-correcting and no moderator involvement was necessary.  Polite discourse, and diverse or opposing opinions are not an attack.  Had a Mod stepped in immediately and labeled it as fear mongering or interpreted the replies as an attack on the OP, the natural consequence and community correction would have not been allowed to occur. 

I think our moderators already do a pretty good job of keeping a lid on unproductive conflict.  If moderators intervened on every little thing, they'd just be overworked, stressed-out, and playing whack-a-mole all day long.  I wholly agree a moderator should give a plainly worded reason for closing a thread, and they usually do...  Explaining the reasons helps participants to understand the expectations for decorum.  However, consider if one were to disagree with a moderator's actions and label them a facist or 'hitler mod' is that not an ad hominem attack?  What about characterization as a censor? 

Notwithstanding, I do see a few posts with regard to addressing the trend in homeless/van dweller laws, that in my humble opinion have been prematurely closed.  Perhaps because they took a wrong turn toward a dark direction.  I know, I know... it's a red hot-button topic but it's something I've always thought needs to be openly discussed (productive conflict).  Someone who knows my work history recently asked me for input on how van dwellers might address unfair local laws, pointing out that too often van dwellers get lumped in with all the unacceptable behaviors of transients, panhandlers, and malingerers.  Although it might be stressful, I suggested that we need to discuss things like shared identity, brand differentiation, common terminology, acceptable van-dweller behaviors, code of conduct, etc.  Affected communities with such laws need to be educated to see van dwellers as separate from those whose objectionable behaviors cause all the problems.  Just my thoughts... plus $2.95 will buy you a cup of coffee, as long as you don't forget your $2.95...
 
Wabbit said:
Spell illuminati backwards and add a .com and see what site pops up.


Hah, nice try, Illuminati .... you're not gettin MY precious bodily fluids ....

;)
 
i'm sorry it didnt include this from Doubleones postfor some reason?
"...consider if one were to disagree with a moderator's actions and label them a facist or 'hitler mod'...
 
Also, please remember that the moderators have already deleted the most objectionable posts. Most likely you are not seeing the posts that caused the thread to be closed or deleted. If up until that point the discussion was civil and helpful the thread will probably be closed but left on the forum so that in the future people can benefit from the discussion. If the thread has no benefit it will probably be deleted.
 
While I don't like it when my posts/threads are deleted on forums, because I am an adult, and because I am not paying for hosting/maintenance of said forum, my course of action is to.....

suck it up and move on.

Also, be glad this thread is still here. On some forums just mentioning a deleted thread is not allowed, so that says to me that the moderators are not trigger happy in deleting posts/threads.
 
rvwandering brings up a good point. when someone says there was nothing that they saw was anything but civil, they probably didn't see the posts that were not civil and got deleted. when a thread needs to be baby sat because it's causing problems then that thread is going to get shut down.

also it's just like anything else there are just a few trouble makers that continue to cause problems even after they are warned. believe me I get tired of warning people over and over and over and over.

highdesertranger
 
rvwandering said:
Also, please remember that the moderators have already deleted the most objectionable posts. Most likely you are not seeing the posts that caused the thread to be closed or deleted.

I did NOT know that. Thank you for explaining that. It does make a difference how I see the issue.
 
The thread needed to be shut down. Statements such as nomadic lifestyle is disappearing and soon the nomads will have no place to park except under highway, or expressway, bridges is fear mongering. Irregardless of the level of vernacular used to make the statements.

These type of statements do nothing to help someone thinking of becoming a nomad. Nor do they help someone who is new to nomading. They were not helpful, instructive, or informative.

The moderator made the correct call. I, for one, do not come on this forum to hear the sky is falling or that the end of my world is near.

This however is just my opinion

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on that thread it was a correct call to close it out.

when I see closed on a thread I think......done deal. now move forward and keep going....nothing to see here :)

this forum does ok on moderating. everyone gets tiffed at any of the forums they are on at some point...gonna happen so you truly do have to suck it up and move on.
 
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