What Size Additional Panel and Questions

[XFILE36]

I had a thread up about this, but need some clarification.  I have learned (a little) since the other thread.  Please let me know what you think in BEGINNER layman's terms.  Here are my specs of what I have:

Internal lithium battery pack:
Voltage:  12.8V Capacity: 50 Ah (600 Wh)

INTEGRATED INVERTER:
Output 120V AC PURE SINE WAVE  1000W CONTINUOUS, 2000 PEAK INTEGRATED AC CHARGER

INTEGRATED CHARGE CONTROLLER/BMS:
Input current: 15.0A
Output current:  10A
Max DC Input current:  16A
Max DC Output Current 10.A

Also, 2 suitcase panels 50 watts each = 100 watts

Here are my questions:

1.)  I would like to know if I could run these daily items on this set up​

11-14 watt Laptop   (12-16 hours per day),​

1 watt fan          (8 hours)​

5 watt led light    (6 hours)​

1 watt speaker   (12 hours)​

700 watt coffee maker (3 minutes)​

2.) I have one open slot on the battery to add another solar panel (I think it's called an Anderson plug thingy).  I also have another area where I can clip (alligator) a hand-crank for charging (obviously useless for that purpose unless you are Hercules!)   If I add another panel, what is the HIGHEST wattage panel I can add?  Is there a limit?  Is it limited by my battery?  Can I also add another one to the spot where the hand-crank  would go as well as the Anderson clip area? 

3.)   Would I be able to run a refrigerator AND freezer with what I currently have, and what should I be looking for in a fridge (I want to freeze and refrigerate at the same time?)  Thank you.

 

[BradKW]

I think you'd probably need to double your system capacity to run a fridge and a freezer, in addition to your other usage. Also, double check your laptop numbers...12-14 watts seems low to me.

 

[John61CT]

1.) I would like to know if I could run these daily items on this set up

See if you can compute #1 now based on my recent clarifications in your multiple running threads, most recently:
https://vanlivingforum.com/showthread.php?pid=297555#pid297555

2.) I have one open slot on the battery to add another solar panel (I think it's called an Anderson plug thingy).

An auto electrician, or anyone with the right crimper, can easily make pigtail adapters to plug in anything you like.

http://biankablog.blogspot.com/2012/04/tools-of-electric-sailor-anderson-power.html?m=1

If I add another panel, what is the HIGHEST wattage panel I can add?  Is there a limit?  Is it limited by my battery?

You need to know the specs for the current solar controller. If you replace it (better) or add another controller, you can add as many panels as you like.

The battery capacity will only dictate how long you can run your loads between sunny-day charging sessions. Not every day will be sunny.

3.)   Would I be able to run a refrigerator AND freezer with what I currently have, and what should I be looking for in a fridge (I want to freeze and refrigerate at the same time?)

You want a Danfoss-type compressor fridge, best brand is Engel. Waeco/Max Burton cheaper knockoffs.

And no, if your main charging source is solar, I'd recommend at least 250AH bank capacity per fridge, 400+ would be better.

A LiFePO4 bank, maybe 2-300AH would be enough, rule of thumb you want to be able to go at least two days without charging, especially with meat in the freezer in hot weather.

A little 2000W gennie would let you carry a smaller bank.

There are combo units if you don't need a lot of freezer space.

Personally I'd go for a big freezer and a cooler with frozen water bottles for frequent use, only open the freezer 1-2 times a day.

 

[XFILE36]

I think you'd probably need to double your system capacity to run a fridge and a freezer, in addition to your other usage. Also, double check your laptop numbers...12-14 watts seems low to me.

Brad, I have an in real time way to check my power usage in my laptop so it varies between 11-14 generally.  It is their thing so who am I to argue?  Why are you questioning my numbers which they give?  I have no clue what you mean about the fridge/freezer. Can you please give a dummies answer instead please?

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

INTEGRATED CHARGE CONTROLLER/BMS:
Input current: 15.0A
Output current:  10A
Max DC Input current:  16A
Max DC Output Current 10.A


2.) I have one open slot on the battery to add another solar panel (I think it's called an Anderson plug thingy).  I also have another area where I can clip (alligator) a hand-crank for charging (obviously useless for that purpose unless you are Hercules!)   If I add another panel, what is the HIGHEST wattage panel I can add?  Is there a limit?  Is it limited by my battery?  Can I also add another one to the spot where the hand-crank  would go as well as the Anderson clip area?

It isn't limited by your battery, it's limited by your charge controller.  Specifically the Max DC Input Current 16A
Somewhere on your panels there should be a sticker that lists it's operating current.  I looked at the Renogy web site, and their 50 watt panel lists 2.7 amps.  So let's round that up to an even 3 amps, and your two panels are putting 6 amps of current into a controller that can accept a maximum of 16 amps.  So in theory, you could add another three 50 watt (3 amp) panels.  Though in practice, it's usually not a good idea to exceed 80% of maximum if you want the longest life for the controller.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Brad, I have an in real time way to check my power usage in my laptop so it varies between 11-14 generally.  It is their thing so who am I to argue?  Why are you questioning my numbers which they give?

Well, speaking personally, I'm just not used to seeing such low numbers.  Most power supplies for laptops that I've seen have been 90 watts or more.  I have a high end Lenovo whose power supply brick is rated at 170 watts.

When you look at the power supplies for regular computers, you see they are running anywhere from 300 watts up to 700 watts or more for the high end gaming machines.

So I look at a report of 11 to 14 watts and I scratch my head and say "That can't be right . . ."

What did you use to measure it?  Is there any possibility you were measuring amps instead of watts?  Cause that would make a whole lot more sense . . .

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

3.)   Would I be able to run a refrigerator AND freezer with what I currently have, and what should I be looking for in a fridge (I want to freeze and refrigerate at the same time?)  Thank you.

Engle Fridge/Freezers are probably the most electrically efficient.  They come in a number of sizes, and the bigger they are the more power they draw. It also depends on how hot the surrounding air temperature is.  As a result of those uncertainties, we can only work with a range rather than an exact figure.  The Engle site says .07 to as much as 3.6 amps.  And of course,they don't run continuously.  Figure 20 minutes out of every hour on average.  Anyway, Engle says to use between 1 an 2 amps an hour as an average.  So 2 amps for 24 hours and you've used 48 amp hours in a day.

And you would need two units, one to be the fridge and one to be the freezer.

 

[John61CT]

Brad, I have an in real time way to check my power usage in my laptop so it varies between 11-14 generally.  It is their thing so who am I to argue?  Why are you questioning my numbers which they give?

Seems low to me too, but maybe true if low RAM, no separate GPU, just web browsing and some email.

Is this being reported by a software utility running on the laptop, or via a Killwatt counter?

 

[John61CT]

Most power supplies for laptops that I've seen have been 90 watts or more.  I have a high end Lenovo whose power supply brick is rated at 170 watts.

Keep in mind that's max capacoty, allowing for fast recharging of dead batteries.

And even looking at realtime consumption, maximum will be way higher (5x) than that of usual end users.

 

[jonyjoe303]

my netbook (11 inch screen) uses a little over 2 amps (almost 35 watts), a larger 15 inch laptop would be in the 4 to 5 amp range.

A 12 volt fridge if you set it to 40 degrees uses about 26 amps in a 24 hour period. If you got it set to freeze it will be over 40 amps/ 50 amps.

Usually the charge controller will show the max voltage allowed. My charge controller is limited to 45 volts, so I can at most only use one large 36 volt panel or 2 small 21 volt panels. More expensive controllers can handle 150 volts.

Rule of thumb is every 20 watts of panel produce 1 amp, your 100 watts of panel will produce about 5 amps. Since your controller wont output more than 10 amps, it would be a waste to use more than 200 watts of panels.
I would just make sure the voltage of all the panels doesnt exceed the controllers specifications. You don't want to put 80 volts into a controller that can only handle 60 volts.

This is in the back of my 240 watt panel, all panels have something similar.

System Rating: 240 Watts 
 
Watts (PTC): 216.5 Watts 
 
Max Power Voltage (Vmpp): 29.3 Volts 
 
Max Power Current (Impp): 8.19 Amps 
 
Open Circuit Voltage (Voc): 37.5 Volts 
 
Short Circuit Current (Isc): 8.75 Amps 
 
Max System Voltage: 600 Volts 
 
Module Efficiency: 14.7%

 

[Weight]

While lithium has more available % capacity than lead/acid, for a house battery the power pack is rather small. Don't expect too much from 50 amp hours.

 

[XFILE36]

Optimistic ParanoidIt isn't limited by your battery, it's limited by your charge controller.  Specifically the Max DC Input Current 16A
Somewhere on your panels there should be a sticker that lists it's operating current.  I looked at the Renogy web site, and their 50 watt panel lists 2.7 amps.  So let's round that up to an even 3 amps, and your two panels are putting 6 amps of current into a controller that can accept a maximum of 16 amps.  So in theory, you could add another three 50 watt (3 amp) panels.  Though in practice, it's usually not a good idea to exceed 80% of maximum if you want the longest life for the controller.

OP,
Would that be Max Power Current (IMP) 2.78 A, or Short Circuit Current (ISC) 3.24 A (that's on the back)?  If what you say is what I understand, I shouldn't go over 120 watts (80%) on an additional panel(s), right?  Which one of those numbers should I be looking at?  Also, can you use alligator clips on the other posts, say if I got two 60 watt panels? (Reminder I have 2 open areas, one for Anderson's, and the other possibly for alligator clips.)

I have the specs now if you need them. TY

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Would that be Max Power Current (IMP) 2.78 A, or Short Circuit Current (ISC) 3.24 A (that's on the back)?  If what you say is what I understand, I shouldn't go over 120 watts (80%) on an additional panel(s), right?  Which one of those numbers should I be looking at?  Also, can you use alligator clips on the other posts, say if I got two 60 watt panels? (Reminder I have 2 open areas, one for Anderson's, and the other possibly for alligator clips.)

Max Power Current is the most power you're going to see in the real world, so that's what we worry about.

I would hesitate to use alligator clips only because there is so little surface contact between the clip and the post you are clipping to. This will make it hard for the maximum possible current to flow.

I would just get a single 100 or 150 watt panel and hook it up through the anderson connectors.  However, I'm not sure how that will work for you re: the physical size and weight of the panel and where you store them when not being used.  Multiple 50 watt panels might work better for that reason.  If so, I'd probably try to MacGuyver together some kind of Y connector that would accept two or three panels and combine them to feed into one that would hook to your box.  In fact, Powerwerx sells a dohickey that could easily be adapted to do that.

https://powerwerx.com/4-position-powerpole-distribution-block

This is an Anderson Powerpole bus bar.  Run a pair of wires from your box to any of these - one red, one black - and plug your solar panels into the other ones and they will all feed into your box.

 

[XFILE36]

I would just get a single 100 or 150 watt panel and hook it up through the anderson connectors.  However, I'm not sure how that will work for you re: the physical size and weight of the panel and where you store them when not being used.  Multiple 50 watt panels might work better for that reason.  ..Powerwerx sells a dohickey that could easily be adapted to do that.  https://powerwerx.com/4-position-powerpole-distribution-block

This is an Anderson Powerpole bus bar.  Run a pair of wires from your box to any of these - one red, one black - and plug your solar panels into the other ones and they will all feed into your box.

OP,  

Cool!  Thanks for the link.  I could buy that power distribution block to hook up two or (3) 50 watters, or get another 100 Watt suitcase like I have. 

Question#1:  If I were to get another battery, what is the usual way they are attached, i.e. Anderson clips or other?  Mine was already set up with Anderson clips, so I don't know what "the usual" way is to connect panels to batteries.  If I know if I need more than one bus bar, I could order them both at once. 

Since I bought an all-in-one battery/solar panel package, I didn't get the education on controllers and inverters.  Question #2:  Where exactly is my controller and inverter?  Is the controller on the back of the panels and inverter inside the battery bank?  P.S.  I am slowly trying to learn about all this and going to try to take a class and watch videos, given the limited time I have.  Thank you for all your patience and guidance. 

 

[DLTooley]

12v freezers can be run only during day under solar power so long as you get them cold enough to hold you overnight. In that case you use no, or little, battery storage. I like the idea of using a good cooler as a refrigerator cooled by water filled 1/2 gallon juice containers. You can use the freezer to re-freeze. A 5 amp freezer at 12v will draw 60 watts, when the compressor is actually running. An additional 50 watt panel should cover it.

You will want to track your own usage, and compare it to voltage readings on your battery. I do like to have more than one day of operating capacity in my set up - cloudy days would also effect my solar only freezer operation strategy.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

OP,  

Cool!  Thanks for the link.  I could buy that power distribution block to hook up two or (3) 50 watters, or get another 100 Watt suitcase like I have. 

Question#1:  If I were to get another battery, what is the usual way they are attached, i.e. Anderson clips or other?  Mine was already set up with Anderson clips, so I don't know what "the usual" way is to connect panels to batteries.  If I know if I need more than one bus bar, I could order them both at once. 

Since I bought an all-in-one battery/solar panel package, I didn't get the education on controllers and inverters.  Question #2:  Where exactly is my controller and inverter?  Is the controller on the back of the panels and inverter inside the battery bank?  P.S.  I am slowly trying to learn about all this and going to try to take a class and watch videos, given the limited time I have.  Thank you for all your patience and guidance. 

Refresh my memory.  Exactly which brand and model number do you have?  I'd want to look at it online before I try to answer these questions.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

12v freezers can be run only during day under solar power so long as you get them cold enough to hold you overnight.  In that case you use no, or little, battery storage.  I like the idea of using a good cooler as a refrigerator cooled by water filled 1/2 gallon juice containers.  You can use the freezer to re-freeze.  A 5 amp freezer at 12v will draw 60 watts, when the compressor is actually running.  An additional 50 watt panel should cover it.

You will want to track your own usage, and compare it to voltage readings on your battery.  I do like to have more than one day of operating capacity in my set up - cloudy days would also effect my solar only freezer operation strategy.

A cooler AND a 12 volt freezer are going to take up a lot of physical space in a van.

 

[XFILE36]

I like the idea of using a good cooler as a refrigerator cooled by water filled 1/2 gallon juice containers.  You can use the freezer to re-freeze.  A 5 amp freezer at 12v will draw 60 watts, when the compressor is actually running.  An additional 50 watt panel should cover it.

You will want to track your own usage, and compare it to voltage readings on your battery.  I do like to have more than one day of operating capacity in my set up - cloudy days would also effect my solar only freezer operation strategy.

DLTooley,

Do you mean to freeze the water first to put in a cooler?  BTW, I bought an all in one and can only see "bars" to see my battery volume.  Is it usually showing digitally on a screen on an inverter?  TY

 

[XFILE36]

Refresh my memory.  Exactly which brand and model number do you have?  I'd want to look at it online before I try to answer these questions.

I will PM you with it.  TY