wanna hook up

[desert_sailing]

So, against my inner Jeremiah Johnson I have added to my electrical system.. was hoping it would be a cut and dry installation as in my minds eye..

I guess I can imagine skinning a critter easier than making a few simple electrical connections.

I have 2- 35 amp battery wired in parallel with my 10a charge controller directly connected to them. So that was the easy part.

I picked up a 750w inverter..

A little panel with voltmeter, usb and a 12v hole.   

A fuse box 

OK.. Sooo.. I assume the inverter goes directly to the battery. The fuse box also.

This little panel/readout I run directly to the fuse box with a 15 amp fuse in place?
I am reading the instructions and I am not quite sure what I am seeing.. SO I will bring a positive wire from the fuse to the panel. That is the Input DC12v+ red line on the instructions?... Then I need to connect the voltmeter, the switch, the power outlet, and the usb charger ports with ONE(?) red wire? or would that be 3 separate wires?  The instructions show the path from voltmeter (+) to the switch (-)?

The same for the negative lines.. those are all seperate connections.. one wire from the power outelt to the usb charger and another wire from the usb charger to the voltmeter.. and then yet another wire going from the negative at the  voltmeter to ????.. Uranus? or does that go back to the fuse box?

Sorry if this seems very elementary to most of you.  I have never been the same since my siblings and I stuck a butter knife between the tv screen and the frame..I been scurd of the electricals ever since.

I assume  later if I may add another device I would simply put in the appropriate fuse and hard wire that item to the fuse box....

Thanks LOL

 

[barleyguy]

The most important fuses in the entire system go on anything connected directly to the battery (to keep the battery from shorting out and starting on fire). So you need a fuse between the inverter and the battery. Probably 100 amp, since I am assuming the 750 watts is a "continuous" rating. It should go on the red wire. On the same note, you also need a fuse on the red wire of the charge controller going to the battery, if there's not one already. Since it's a 10 amp controller, a 12 or 15 amp fuse would be good.

The inverter should go on the red of one battery and the black of the other, so it pulls from both equally. The fuse box can go in the same place. Then the positive wire of the panel can go off of one of the fuses in the fuse box. The negative wires can all be tied together. They are essentially a common negative. I recommend crimping "eyelet" ends onto each negative wire and using a terminal post to tie them together, because bare wire can get hot when current is run through it.

The fuses and the crimped ends in a DC system are primarily to prevent an electrical fire.

Hope that helps...

 

[desert_sailing]

Thanks for taking time to assist me.

So I guess I do NOT have the charge controller hardwired as of yet.. It is attached to the battery  with the aligator clips provided. .. there was nothing speaking about  a fuse between it and the batteries in the manual.  Are you saying that  I run the charge controller to that fuse box I have ? or do I have to buy another fuse that is only for the charge controller? 

Do you recomend that I disconnect the charge controller until it has a fuse inline?

I see fuses already on the inverter.. are those not sufficient?. I still need another fuse for it as well?

I should have got one of them power supply do dads that Sofi posted on here recently.

hmmm

 

[desert_sailing]

So I haven't moved much on the wiring and still am a little confused by all the fake news that is prolific online and so I return to you all again seeking experienced consultation.

I have put here a couple pictures to supplement those above along with my notion of how it should all come together.

The inverter has to be about 6 feet from the house battery. I have 6awg currently, should I increase that to 4awg? A 100 amp fuse is ok for that? The back of the inverter says 70amp... and nothing else.. not sure what they mean there. (more halfastness).

The fuse block is about 4/5 feet from the batteries. Should this also use a 4awg? As you can see in the directions for the block it says 4-6awg and to use a 125 maximum fuse. Should I use a smaller fuse say 100?

A 10a charge controller with a 12 or15 amp fuse on the hot.. why one and not the other?

The voltmeter with the 12volt plug and usb ports is going to the fuse block. Is that fine?.. will it still give me a proper read out of the house battery status? Or does this also need to go directly to the house battery?

I read online (of all places) that I need to ALSO ground the house batteries?? So like drill a hole and wire the negative to the frame of the van??

I am trying to keep everything somewhat  central. The batteries however are at the very back of the rig in  their own little cabinet. Everything else that I will be using is obviously NOT at the back.

I would like to wire the fridge directly to the fuse block instead of using the 12v hole on the voltmeter panel... This shouldn't be a problem..?/.. I just need to have the correct sized fuse in place?

The fuse block has "posts" for each negative and positive.. I have heard joining all the negatives as a common..why would I do this if there is a place for it already? Wont that make removing an item more of a hassle if I chose to remove it if all negatives are wired/joined together?

Anyhow.. I would appreciate once again any input/guidance anyone can give out there.

 

[Trebor English]

The battery stores energy.  It can release the energy quickly.  That is what can overheat wires.  To protect the wires you need a fuse at the battery.  If you have AWG #6 wire, use that.  With tiny batteries you won't be running that inverter at 750 watts, not for long anyway. 

According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge AWG #6 is good for 55 to 75 amps continuously, depending on insulation temperature rating.  For 10 seconds, to blow a fuse, it's good for 668 amps.  If you have the above mentioned 100 amp fuse that would be good to mount at the battery feeding the AWG #6. 

You can use the same fuse and wire to connect the battery to the fuse box.  I mean literally, the same fuse and wire that feed  the inverter can also connect to the fuse box or a different wire sharing the same fuse at the battery or a separate wire and a separate fuse.  From the fuse box you can connect small AWG # 10, or 12 wire to your solar controller, fridge, meter & power port using fuses, 30 amp for AWG 10 and, 20 amp for AWG #12. 

By connecting the solar charge controller through a fuse in the fuse box the wire to the controller and the solar panel wires are all protected from the full wrath of the battery.  In your diagram you show the solar controller connected directly to the battery.  That wire, like all wires, can be ignited by the battery and requires a fuse at the battery.  If you already have the fuse box and its battery wire protected, that would be the easy way to connect the solar.

 

[B and C]

Here is the Blue Seas wiring guide: https://www.bluesea.com/resources/1437

All circuits should be measured in round trip, that means both the positive and the negative wire length added together. Your 6 feet away is really 12 feet of wire. Fuse at the battery positive always. All 12V circuits are looking for a ground is why the 12V positive is fused.

Wiring your controller to the fuse block with a sufficient wire size will work.

The fuse block has all the ground wires connected together on a common buss.

You only need to ground to the frame if you don't want to run a ground wire to each device (excepting the inverter).

 

[bullfrog]

Basically on Direct Current (DC) circuits, the 12volt ones in your case, shorter runs and thicker cable is more efficient. Fuses are normally placed as close as possible to the positive post of the battery. The closer the inverter to the battery the better. Alternating Current (AC) travels better than DC so if you have a choice use a longer AC cord on the appliances and place the inverter close as possible to the battery. Your fuse block has a positive terminal that is attached to a metal strip inside the plastic housing that connects to the inside prong of the fuse, the outside prong of the fuse attaches to the metal terminal with the screw on the outside which is where the positive wires for individual circuits will attach. If you attach the negative battery post to the bare metal of the body then the body will serve as the negative part of any DC circuit you add. So instead is running several wires back to the negative battery post you can simply use a ring terminal on a ground or negative wire of any DC appliance and attach the terminal with a screw to the bare metal body. Many people prefer to run individual wires to a negative bus bar instead rather than use the body. It is a matter of personal preference as body grounds can corrode or loosen causing problems. Hope this helps. Will’s video is pretty good so be sure to watch it. Hard wiring is a good idea where you have ciggy type plugs if you want to insure continuous power. Hope this helps and as always check several other sources to make sure what I have written is best for your application.

 

[desert_sailing]

OK...LOL..sooo

I will move the inverter to less than a foot away from the house battery and will connect it using 6 awg and a 100 amp fuse.

The fuse block will also be moved  to about a foot away from the house battery as well.

My voltmeter/usb/12vplug hole will be about 4 feet from the fuse block.  This is where I will plug my fridge for the meantime. I would eventually like to wire the fridge directly to the fuse block..but I just want this wiring cr@p off the list.  I assume when this 12plug/voltmeter panel is wired to the fuse block.. that fuse there is sufficient for my fridge too? The panel instructions say 15 amp max on the dc 12v outlet. The specs for fridge say  dc fuse 15a..so this panel has sufficient protection for the fridge.

In all of the Will prouse videos I have seen, I never heard him talk about grounding anything to the frame.. not once..It is oftentimes the omitted info that causes problems. I understand that he gives some good instructions. if you can get past the singsonginess of session.. I can make it about 3 minutes and 22 seconds...facts and info can be given without it turning into fairytale time. I keep expecting a "Like, OMG" to be thrown in.

Thank you bullfrog b&c.. for mentioning the frame grounding.

I mean literally, the same fuse and wire that feed  the inverter can also connect to the fuse box.......how is this possible?.. certainly another wire has to lead from the fuse block and merge??? into the inverter wire?... Or are you saying. that the wire from the inverter..routes up into the fuse block and then over to the house battery?  If that is the case do I strip a section of that inverter wire to make contact with the fuse block?? Or does this simply mean I can use the same (type) of wire and fuse.. ie..6awg and 100a fuse??

Pardon me if my annoyance is showing..LOL.. I have a minimal system here and sometimes people talk as if I am wiring a whole house of stuff. I have a tv/110 outlet.. that will go to the inverter.. I have usb strip led lights.. I have a 12v fridge.. thats it.. no ac.. no sconced lighting on the walls..no blenders or ceiling fans..no electric pumps.

i am going to spend another day trying to clear the path in my non-electricians mind and then I will pay the 200 bux for someone to come spend 10 minutes to do it.

So this is where my melon is at.

750 watt Inverter.. less than a foot away from the house battery and hard wired to it using 6awg and a 100amp fuse.
Fuse block ..less than a foot away from house battery and hard wired to it using 6awg and a 100amp fuse.
10 amp Solar charge controller.. about a foot away from fuse block and wired into it using a 12 amp fuse.
12v receptacle/voltmeter about 3 feet from fuse block hard wired to it using 14 awg and a 15 amp fuse in place. ( the fridge requires a 15 amp fuse to be in place which is what the panel instructions require as well.)

I will only have the inverter and the fuse block going directly to the house battery. So I don't really need to drill a whole in the floor, crawl under the rig to ground to the frame..right??

Thanks for your patience. I really do appreciate all of your inputs!...

 

[wayne49]

It may be unsafe to have an inverter in the same airspace as the battery bank. Check the installation instructions for the inverter and the charge controller. If the inverter came with a plug, they might not have considered a hard wired installation close to the battery.

 

[desert_sailing]

It may be unsafe to have an inverter in the same airspace as the battery bank. Check the installation instructions for the inverter and the charge controller. If the inverter came with a plug, they might not have considered a hard wired installation close to the battery.

Thanks Wayne.

I have the batteries (SLA) inside a compartment by themselves. I will put the inverter on the outside of that compartment. The inverter did not come with any instructions at all only a warranty pamphlet. I have had no luck finding a version of the manual online.

I am not sure what is meant by a plug.. the inverter did come with a positive and a negative wire that has alligator clips.

The charge controller instructions are also vague as can be. It came also with  a positive and negative wire with alligator clips, the instructions show those going directly to the battery.

 

[bullfrog]

My system is simple also. I am using AGM batteries so no worries about large amounts of fumes but they are also enclosed. Most would prefer battery posts be connected to a positive and negative bus bars and then you have several individual terminals so you don’t stack ring terminals on the post. Since I only have the fuse block and inverter (got rid of the alligator clips and hard wire with ring terminals)to attach to the positive and negative posts I used a military style battery terminal with which I can attach two wires with ring terminals to either side of the bolt in the battery terminal (2 in line fuses on the positives going to the fuse block and inverter). My fuse block has a negative terminal that I attached to the body. The body on most vehicles is grounded from the factory to the frame. As long as those factory cables are clean and tight you shouldn’t have to drill a hole and attach an additional cable. Even then you shouldn’t have to drill a hole just find a ground point on the frame and one on the outside under body and attach a cable between them. You may find this improves your vehicle’s electrical system as this is a common problem on older rusty vehicles.

 

[VanFan]

You may find this improves your vehicle’s electrical system as this is a common problem on older rusty vehicles.

You know what they say, "If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.  If you've got an electrical problem, it's the ground."

 

[bullfrog]

Don’t under estimate the power of a hammer! Lol!!!

 

[B and C]

No more than a 70 amp fuse on the 6 gauge wire. A higher rated fuse won't protect the cable.

If you want a 100 amp fuse, you need 4 gauge cable.

https://www.bluesea.com/resources/1437

 

[Trebor English]

If you want to connect your battery to the vehicle alternator as a backup source of charge then the minus side alternator connection is the alternator housing.  That's connected to the chassis.  To be able to use that charging source you must have your battery minus connected to the chassis.  Similarly your solar can be used to charge the van battery.  Since the van battery minus is tied to the chassis you want your solar charger similarly tied.

The 120 volt circuit, the inverter output, should have the green wire, the safety ground, tied to the vehicle chassis.  In order to have a 120 volt short circuit to the safety ground blow a fuse to open the circuit it is necessary to connect the inverter neutral, white wire, to the safety ground at one point.  That is usually connected in the breaker panel box but you don't have one.  You still need to have that connection for the safety ground circuit to be able to blow the fuse to remove power if there is a short circuit from the 120 volt hot side, black wire, to the appliance chassis.

All inverters have a maximum voltage between input side and output side.  Some have that specified in the technical documentation.  If it isn't specified there is still a limit.  Beyond that limit the inverter will die.  A static charge build up on one side of the circuit can do this.  If you connect the battery minus to the inverter neutral and safety ground there will be no problem with charge buildup.  It is common practice to make that connection on purpose with a wire capable of blowing the biggest fuse in the system. 

A ground fault circuit interrupter won't protect without a ground conductor to carry the fault current to cause the interrupting of the 120 volts.

Long story short, you don't need to connect the house battery to the vehicle chassis.  If you want to use the alternator it won't work if you don't.  If you have an inverter you really want it for the safety ground system to work and to protect the inverter.

 

[desert_sailing]

No more than a 70 amp fuse on the 6 gauge wire.  A higher rated fuse won't protect the cable.

If you want a 100 amp fuse, you need 4 gauge cable.

https://www.bluesea.com/resources/1437

Thanks B&C.

I took those fuse values from the post above from barleyguy. I have not seen any fuse info on any of the manuals I have.. other than the fridge says 15a and the 12volt plug meter panel saying 15 as well. Thats it..I am happy to get a thicker wire if needed or any size fuse. I blew my  budget on this van long ago.. so what is  few xtra bucks on wire.. I just want it over with.   I don't even know why the amp of that fuse needs to be so high anyhow. LOL

I would definitely prefer to use the safest wire size possible..ill do the whole dang thing with double aught and call it a day.

 

[B and C]

You fuse for the cable, not the load. Look at the chart I linked above and it will tell you about wire sizes, lengths and fuse size.

 

[desert_sailing]

You fuse for the cable, not the load.  Look at the chart I linked above and it will tell you about wire sizes, lengths and fuse size.

Yes.. that is a nice chart. I will be printing it off and keeping a hardcopy with me.

It looks like 6 or 4 is plenty for me tho I have not done any math as to the amps that I wlll  be pulling through them. It won't be much.

I really appreciate your taking the time to lead me along.. AND everyone else who gave of their time.