Ventilation Fan/Vent ThinkTank - Calling out SternWake!

[VJG1977]

Then could you insert a muffin fan into existing ducts to pull air through the existing filters and vents?

 

[SternWake]

Probably. Some vehicles fresh air intake vents are automatically closed when there is no longer vaccuum provided from the engine to hold them open, so instead of bringing outside air into the interior, such a fan might just recirculate interior air.

Anything is possible, but will it be effective and worth the effort is vehicular specific as well as personal?

 

[wagoneer]

I really think all you are over thinking this whole fan thing. When talking to my north African friend in the heat of the day he pointed out that nomadic people put more wool clothes on when it's hot to keep the heat out and your hard earned sweat working for you to keep you from boiling over. My point is get used to the heat if you live in the desert or move to a climate you can live with. I move slow when hot.

 

[SternWake]

I decided to not trust Platinum Micro to actually refund my money, so I kept the dang fan I didn't order and don't want.

I thought I would use it to replace my Vitrifrigo provided fan from my shroud, as it just a sleeve bearing fan, and these tend to be noisier. The unwanted Arctic fan claims the same CFM and same current, but I found it actually uses 0.24 amps while the VF fan uses 0.12a. They both move the same amount of air, so the this particular Arctic fan is a loser.

I also had to play with the Delta screaming banshee fan again. It claims to consume 3.9 amps but I could not get a reading over 3 amps, via two different meters. One of the meters records the start up surge and after a dozen starts, the highest surge it recorded was 3.05amps, and it always returned to 2.9 amps or less at 12.2 volts input. The reading was the same whether I ran it through the PWM speed controller or bypassed it.

My 92MM Vantec Tornado fan, in the presence of the screaming Delta Banshee fan, is inaudible, and its flow is indiscernible. The sheer velocity of the air moved by the Delta just absorbs anything the Vantec can make at full speed, and it, is rated at 118 CFM.

My homemade filter attached to the 92mm Vantec is really getting loaded now, and getting darker and darker.
The same filter material protecting my fridge was also loaded, and ugly, after only 3 weeks.

I think I am going to attach the Banshee fan to the shroud and use it as an intake fan, sometimes. I think rather than intake fan, perhaps, Purge fan is more accurate. The SS AP182 is performing well, and only on the hot days do I slide the window open further and turn on the SS FM121. The VF fan does not really add much to the SS fans, but the Banshee fan certainly will.

Here are the 3 fans forcing their airflow under my denim mattress cover, and floating 3 Chisels:

With the screaming Banshee fan installed in place of the VF fan, I bet I could float all my blankets too.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

With the screaming Banshee fan installed in place of the VF fan, I bet I could float all my blankets too.

put enough of them under your blankets and you could be sleeping on a cloud
-- Spiff

 

[Lafnbug]

I've heard of inflatable beds, but that takes it to a whole new level! Very cool photo, thanks for sharing!

I guess you haven't had any luck reigning in the The Banshee's RPMS? Since you already have a harem of fans at your disposal, do you think you will benefit from the purge factor? Or, is it just an attempt to make lemonade?

 

[SternWake]

Ideally, I wanted to relocate the SS FM121 from my ceiling, to my intake shroud, and a fully variable speed banshee fan exhausting on the ceiling. I rarely turn on all 3 intake fans, and when I do, it means it is freaking hot, and I usually have excess solar to burn off, and what better way than an uncontrollable 3 amp screaming banshee fan?

Lemonade definitely.

The amp draw of the banshee fan, as slow as I can get it to turn through the PWM controller, was still 2.43 amps, and only is a slightly subdued screaming Banchee, compared to full speed. At 2.43 amps, it still exceeds the SS fm121's flow by a huge margin.

The SS fm121 moves 110 CFm at max speed and consumes 0.39 amps to do it, which is pretty good in terms of computer fan efficiency. I am curious how much juice A 3 wire Banshee fan consumes when moving ~110 CFM, assuming the 3 wire Non pWm banshee fan can be throttled down as desired.

 

[TucsonAZ]

I'm realizing that I'm going to quickly be dealing with a venting issue and need to address it ASAP, like, Monday, before I head out this coming week. I have **** for space on my roof with the solar, maybe a foot at the rear and not much if anything else. I would like a mushroom style vent, two actually with case fans in them and the ability to close them, if need be, I can attach the fans via a hinge to access the opening and closing feature.

Any ideas on something solid and leak proof?

 

[GrayWhale]

I really think all you are over thinking this whole fan thing. When talking to my north African friend in the heat of the day he pointed out that nomadic people put more wool clothes on when it's hot to keep the heat out and your hard earned sweat working for you to keep you from boiling over. My point is get used to the heat if you live in the desert or move to a climate you can live with. I move slow when hot.

So this basically suggests that Vandwellers makes that extra effort to look a lot more like homeless people on the streets by wearing 2-3 wool overcoats on during the hot summer and an Elmer Fudd hunting hat; which would also achieve the purpose of smelling homeless. I think that this works if you're out in the desert and getting beat on by the sun. But if you're in the shades, it's better to be in shorts. I'm not sure though so maybe if someone can further explain this.

 

[wagoneer]

well yes if your getting all that out of my little suggestion you would indeed look like a cartoon character. My point leads more directly at people taking off clothes the hotter it gets while this seems to be a logical thing to do (to some people). I take examples from people who live in hot hot climates most of the year. Shielding yourself from the sun with clothing that breathes and are non restrictive seems more intelligent to me, try thinking "Lawrence of Arabia" C.O.L

 

[TucsonAZ]

I went with two Vetus Athos mushroom vents, costly but I will never have to replace them and they will work well with a muffin fan on a hinge mounted below them.

 

[SternWake]

I am interested in these Vetus vents, not enough details online about them. I am wondering how restrictive to flow they are. Do they come with trim rings? How far does the Knob stick below the bottom? Since they are designed as a passive vent they might not take to a fan trying to force air through it very well. I know my Nicro vent could be better in this regard.

Muffin fan choice is pretty important, as some are better than others when faced with restriction, and variable speed is always nice.

The silverstone fm121 is still one of my favorite 120MM fans, and with its max 110 CFM airflow is among the strongest. But there are times when I want more. Might have to get the 3 wire screaming banshee fan and hope it responds to my speed controller properly.

 

[akrvbob]

I know it's counter-intuitive but if it's over 98.6 the heat coming in from outside is greater than the heat coming out from within. So adding some moderate insulation is pretty smart. The Arabs got that one right!

Of course you don't put on 2 wool coats, I think we all can figure that out. But light full length cotton pants and shirts with long sleeve and wide-brimmed hat that covers your neck will keep you cooler.
Bob

 

[TucsonAZ]

I am interested in these Vetus vents, not enough details online about them. I am wondering how restrictive to flow they are. Do they come with trim rings? How far does the Knob stick below the bottom? Since they are designed as a passive vent they might not take to a fan trying to force air through it very well. I know my Nicro vent could be better in this regard.

Muffin fan choice is pretty important, as some are better than others when faced with restriction, and variable speed is always nice.

The silverstone fm121 is still one of my favorite 120MM fans, and with its max 110 CFM airflow is among the strongest. But there are times when I want more. Might have to get the 3 wire screaming banshee fan and hope it responds to my speed controller properly.

I got them from here and dealt with Joe at extension 217, even found a working 5% off coupon with a quick online search.

He was super helpful to deal with, not only did he say he had the Pothos (smaller one) on his boat and loved it but he went in back and grabbed one while I was talking to him to give me more data on it. He said the handle stuck down below the flange (not the trim ring) 1 and 3/8th inches when fully closed and 2 and 3/8th when fully open which is well within workable for me. I'm actually thinking of using a muffin fan mounted to 4 strong magnets so I can move the fan with ease when not in use there or I need to open/close the vent.

You guys keep talking about power and CFM, just do what I did and run a 24v system, you will be amazing at how much even the most basic 24v fan can put out!

I actually get that isn't possible for everybody but it is a far better way of putting together a solar system if you have one independent of your vehicle.

 

[SternWake]

Thanks for the extra info on that Vent. I would like a Vent to best mate to a 120MM fan. I made a step down ring, forcing 120mm fan aperture through ~ vent 104MM opening. Be better have a Bigger vent aperture from a resistance aspect.

24 volt products are just too limited for me. What Muffin fan you planning on using? A 12v fan fed 24 volts is not going to last long if it doesn't release the magic blue smoke instantly.

Seems all the High end muffin fans are all for 12 volt nominal systems. I found a few 120mm 24v fans.
Here is the 24 volt version of the screaming banshee fan 268 CFM at 78 watts.

http://www.delta.com.tw/product/cp/dcfans/download/pdf/FFB/FFB120x120x38mm.pdf

Speed control is Key. 24v throws another wrench to that option.
Speed control is Key.Speed control is Key.Speed control is Key.
Speed control is Key.Speed control is Key.Speed control is Key.
Speed control is Key.Speed control is Key.Speed control is Key.

I just pulled down my ceiling fan, and cleaned it.
Here is 2.5months worth of dust build up.

Not pretty. and it is a PITA.

I am running one 24v fan on 12v. It exhausts my electrical cabinet silently for 0.05a, and I need to freaking clean that fan too.

---

Okay, Muffin fan madness. 24v 140MM fan, 368 CFM!!!!!! 74 DBA Bwuhuhahahaaaa,

ALL HAIL THE NEW SCREAMING BANSHEE FAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.delta.com.tw/product/cp/dcfans/download/pdf/FFB/FFB140x140x38mm.pdf

This one would fit in the largest Vetus mushroom vent which has a 5 .51 inch aperture. 140MM=5.51 inches.

Speed control is key.

---

Forgot the dirty fan pic:

A silverstone fm121 rated at a peazly 110.3 cfm

But it has.......
wait for it......

A Speed control!

 

[SternWake]

----------------------------------

I just thought of a Way around a roof vent, for those who do not want to cut a hole in their roof.

One could get one of these bilge fans. In theory one could put it anywhere, and use 4 inch Ducting to suck hot air from the roof, and another duct to expel it elsewhere, like out the floor, or a window, anywhere. One could isolate its feet to reduce vibration and noise for stealth

At 6 amps the SOB has to be capable of moving a lot of Air, so the 10 amp PWM Speed controller I posted earlier will likely work very nicely to dial it in for the need/noise. Wish I could find some CFM specs.

I have not researched these fans yet, the following was just the first link I clicked:

http://www.amazon.com/Marine-Electric-In-line-Blower-Attwood/dp/B00D24KFPQ/ref=cm_cr_pr_sims_t


Another product which might laugh at the Screaming banshee computer fan, is a ATV/ motorcycle fan. This one is 5.2 inches and moves 313 CFM for 3.6 amps.

http://www.amazon.com/Spal-30103013...bs_auto_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=0W7V9E1BCWZPSN2R0QQR

Have to explore more options along these lines.

 

[TucsonAZ]

I have the non-generic version of the bilge fan, it's a MONSTER!! It sucks power like you couldn't imagine for one and to call it loud would be an understatement! It would work to "purge" your vehical in under 60 seconds if there was some odor you needed gone in a hurry but I would mount it someplace outside of the cabin.

Here's the 24v fan I'm running:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00H8UTN6C/ref=ox_ya_os_product_refresh_T1

My plan is as follows:

1) Vetus mushroom vents x2
2) 120mm 24v muffin fans x2
3) Neodymium 1/2 round magnets with countersunk hole


I'm going to use a two inch wood mounting plate on the inside of the vehicle that's square and of course round in the center. I will screw 4 flat head screws into the bottom of this that correspond with the 4 mounting holes on the case fan which will have the magnets mounted on each side. I will also have two screws mounted to the side of the 2" wood trim.

This will allow me to easily use the either (or both) fan to push, pull or side mount when the vent is closed. The magnets say they hold 6+ pounds each in which case I would only use two per fan per side to keep from having to use a crow bar to pry it loose.

 

[SternWake]

Sleeve bearing fans do not like being run in a horizontal position for long. They will start making all sorts of mechanical noise at some point. Much better are Dual ball bearing or Hydrodynamic bearing fans in a horizontal application.

That Fonsoning fan consumes 6 watts to move 114 CFM at 41 DB
The SS FM121 fan consumes 4.8 watts to move 110CFM at 39.5db

40 DB gets to be tiresome after a while.

The Foosong has a higher static pressure rating though, 4.45mm vs 3.26, and should do better forcing air through a restriction, while it lasts.

But the SS fm121 has a speed control. Which is key.

The Bilge fans/blowers can be slowed down with a speed controller, which is Key. Reducing speed by 1/10 can reduce the current by a third, and half speed can consume 1/3 or less the current of full speed. It is not linear.

Having a 'purge' fan ability is highly desirable, along as one can turn it down, with a speed controller, which is key. If I could crank my ceiling fan up to double what it can move now, I would do so temporarily, but often, this time of year.

Do you see a trend here?

24v PWM motor speed controller

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_n...field-keywords=24v PWM motor speed controller

Try to find one which advertises 20 khz or higher as 13 or 15khz can make the fan Whine audibly, and annoyingly loud at reduced speeds

12v 25 khz PWM motor speed controller.
This is the one I have, which will also dim LED lighting, well most LED's.

http://www.amazon.com/TINYPONY®-Con...=1-10&keywords=12v+PWM+motor+speed+controller.

I'm really considering that 5.2 inch radiator fan on a wait for it.....
Speed controller. I could modify my step down ring to make it work.

315 CFM is a spec I like, I just wonder how much it will consume when throttled back to ~ 110 CFM, via the speed controller. I wonder how loud it will be at 110 cfm too. I also wonder how slow it can be throttled down to. I often crank the Silverstone all the way down at night to where I can barely hear it. Turning it off is an option but I have no screen and bugs will find their way in. Also it is very noticeable, temp wise, when it is not on. My mushroom vent exhausts more air when there is a breeze and will still draw out air without the fan, but basically only in the coldest winter9 in San diego) do I ever shut down this fan and block off the vent.

I'm pretty sure 315 CFM speeds it will be intolerably loud, but that purge ability is highly desirable to me.

On my shroud fans, I installed the speed control dials/potentiometer on the fans themselves, but my roof fan I have the speed dial where I can reach it from bed, or my main chair.

 

[akrvbob]

Wait just a minute......I'm starting to get an idea.....could speed control be......the KEY!!!????
Bob

 

[SternWake]

Could be.... Could just very well be.

The Key, that is.


I was considering the Vetus Vent and modifying things to increase airflow, when I realized I was going a little overboard. What I have works and is already installed and perfectly functional so why start over.

I decided to open up my Nicro solar mushroom vent to reduce resistance. I basically ported and polished it. I also removed the original electric motor. Got love a dremel and all the right attachments to do a job.

There was also this battery a "C" sized Nicad battery that would be charged by the solar panel, and allow it to run all night. This battery was located in such a manner that it blocked a good amount of airflow, and also reduced rain resistance.

I had removed the battery and the waterproof case it resided in a while ago, and used some Nashua flexfix tape to 'rebuild the wall" where the battery was located, but my need for overkill kicked in, or perhaps it is my aversion to halfassery, and tape was not longer an option.

Using cured carbon fiber strips saturated with epoxy leftover from a previous surfboard type project, a few screws and some superglue, I rebuilt the perimeter of the Lexan wall. Then I laid fiberglass cloth over the carbon fiber strips, first outside, then fiberglass roving on the inside. Even if the epoxy does not bond properly with the lexan, which is a good possibility, the shape the epoxy and fiberglass has cured in means the wall is not going anywhere and is the strongest portion of the vent now.

The stainless steel "mushroom" portion of the vent is removed in the following photos.

While I am working on this vent, I have nothing in place above my SS fm121 fan. It moves a lot more air and is significantly quieter without the mushroom vent above it restricting flow, but I find the sunbeam during the daytime a bit annoying, and we have another small chance of rain soon.

I will be painting the clear portions black as light can escape at night, and I like to be able to make it pitch black inside during the day too, and previously this was a light source.