Van Shopping in Phoenix - Help Welcomed

[Vagabound]

Hi Everybody,

Just arrived in Phoenix yesterday and still have jet lag, so pls forgive goofy spelling,  ideas, directness, crappy phone typing.  I'm here solely to buy a vehicle.  Just getting started with that.

As any followers of the Box Truck thread know, I'm interested in one of those. However, size and insurance problems, and budget (no 10' trucks under $5,000) are causing me to shift gears, and focus on extended vans. Cargo or passenger, GM over Ford, but both OK.  Don't mind a bit of mechanical work, but no desire to become a mechanic.  General goal: Most van for least money.

Virtual help or suggestions are good. If anyone is actually in Phoenix, that might be very helpful.

Thanks,

Vagabound

 

[Gary68]

had a quick look and
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/cto/5838764326.html
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/ctd/5841235929.html
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/cto/5839876630.html
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/cto/5839434072.html
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/bfs/5836348230.html
http://prescott.craigslist.org/cto/5794594493.html


anything there you like the looks of?

 

[frater secessus]

Ohhh, I hope something like that high roof handicap-accessible van shows up when I'm ready. I'd ditch the lift and enjoy that headspace.

edit: ...and those step vans....

 

[Matlock]

From Gary's links $4500. Might be worth looking into.



Ya I know I'm partial.

 

[Dennis]

I have been looking at the first one, the 1999, for a month online. Just takes overlooking the "possible" spark plug issue. And the high top could be worth taking a look at. And the box van....

 

[Vagabound]

had a quick look and
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/cto/5838764326.html
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/ctd/5841235929.html
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/cto/5839876630.html
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/cto/5839434072.html
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/bfs/5836348230.html
http://prescott.craigslist.org/cto/5794594493.html


anything there you like the looks of?

Gary:  Thanks a bunch for those links. Will start working my way through them.

Matlock:  You and me both.

As needed, I'll refer to Gary's link numerically.

Vagabound

 

[Vagabound]

I have been looking at the first one, the 1999, for a month online. Just takes overlooking the "possible" spark plug issue.   And the high top could be worth taking a look at.  And the box van....

Just to be clear ... the 1999 with this title:

Ford E-350 Van, Super Duty XLT - $4000 (15th and Hatcher)?

I'm asking because it has only been posted for two days (this time anyway), and there is no mention of a spark plug issue.  Do you know more about this one from contact with the owner?

----------

That box truck looks pretty good.  Too bad there's no indication of size.  Has anyone already contacted that owner (just want to see what they've already said, if so)?

Thanks,

Vagabound

 

[Vagabound]

had a quick look and
1.  http://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/cto/5838764326.html
2.  http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/ctd/5841235929.html
3.  http://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/cto/5839876630.html
4.  http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/cto/5839434072.html
5.  http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/bfs/5836348230.html
6.  http://prescott.craigslist.org/cto/5794594493.html


anything there you like the looks of?

For all:

If anyone sees any glaring problems with those vehicles, or any others that come up in this thread, please point them out.  If you suggest a vehicle or something, please don't take offense if I'm critical of it.  Just want to dissect these analytically and quickly.  I am very interested in opinions.

FWIW:  I have a mechanic available to check any that I get serious about, but at $100 a pop for inspection, I don't want to take any there unless I'm very serious about it.

Some general thoughts on those just to help with the helping:  ;-)

1.  1999 Ford E-350:  Seems pretty good.  Any thoughts on the 5.4L V8?  Do the windows on a passenger van cause a problem (compared to cargo van) worth caring about?

2.   2003 E-350 Hi-Top:  Also seems good.  Like the high top.  Bit pricey.  Don't like the dealer involvement.  Just don't trust them, but won't avoid if the right van comes along.  I already feel guilty about striping out all of that good handicapped stuff, including the ramp.

3.  99 GMC P3500 Diesel Box Truck:  Something worries me about the bread trucks.  I did read a thread somewhere in the forum about those in general.  Thoughts?  Probably just my ignorance, but my gut says "Weird --> Problems --> Expensive and Troublesome".  

4.  2002 gmc box van (truck):  My favorite so far.  Plan to get in touch with the owner tonight or first thing in the morning.  I posted a few questions about this truck in a previous post.

5.  1993 Fedex Bread Truck (work truck, food truck):   Ditto # 3.  Also a lot older and not much cheaper than # 3.

6.   2002 FORD E350 ... Caregivers Van:   Good, but unless I missed something, no mileage listed.  Could be red flag.  Ditto # 2 re: stripping out the great handcapped stuff, only more so.  I wonder if all of that crap valuable equipment could easily be sold  via Craigslist, etc?

OK, better go lay down before I fall down.  Thanks a bunch for the help so far.

Vagabound

 

[Gary68]

a couple more
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/cto/5831554404.html
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/cto/5820586660.html

seen a few nice express's but when you get up around and over 200k i back away

on the ford engine-some have a spark plug thread striping issue,someone in the know will comment with more precise info

 

[Dennis]

****Just to be clear ... the 1999 with this title:

Ford E-350 Van, Super Duty XLT - $4000 (15th and Hatcher)?*****

That is the one. Listing probably expired and then relisted. For a number of years after the 5.4L was introduced starting in 1997 there were many complaints of spark plugs ejecting from the heads. The heads are aluminum and there were, I think, only four threads for the plug. There is a fair amount of info out there on the issues. I may have a link on one. Even though, I still get tempted.when I see a decent looking one for sale.

 

[djkeev]

I have an 06 F-150 with the 5.4.
131,000 miles, zero problems with the plugs.
I own the extractor kit but haven't needed it.
The plug issue is generally on the first plug change. After that, you're good.

If the threads strip, inserts can be installed making an effective repair.

My 5.4 likes plug coils, replaced four of them thus far.

Dave

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

There were two separate problems with the spark plugs on Ford 5.4 engines.  Also the V10 6.8 and one other Ford engine, was it the 4.6?, can't remember.

The early engines would sometimes spit one or more plugs out when you were driving down the street.  As Dennis said, the heads are aluminum and there weren't really enough threads.

Ford fixed that problem around 03 or 04 - if you need exact time frame we'd have to google it - but then had a new problem.

For some reason, they went to two piece spark plugs, and specified that they didn't need to be changed until 100,000 miles.  Well, mechanics started breaking the plugs in two when they tried to remove them.  The bottom half stayed in the head. They ended up having to pull the heads and sending them out to machine shops.  Big Bucks!  Worse yet, the warranty expired at 100,000 miles, and if you waited to change the plugs till after that, Ford refused to cover it under warranty.

As djkeev said, if the original plugs have been changed, they were replaced with new one piece plugs and there is no longer a problem.

Eventually, around 08 or so, Ford went to one piece plugs at the factory, and from that point on, there was no longer a problem.

A couple of the rigs Gary68 posted have mileages that make me wonder if they might still have the original two piece spark plugs in them.  And I would personally stay away from the earlier ones with the thin threads, you just never know when they might let go on you.

There was one Chevy/GMC in that batch, No known engine issues like the Fords, but it had kinda high mileage. 

Sorry I can't be more positive.

 

[Vagabound]

There were two separate problems with the spark plugs on Ford 5.4 engines.  
...

Eventually, around 08 or so, Ford went to one piece plugs at the factory, and from that point on, there was no longer a problem.
...
And I would personally stay away from the earlier ones with the thin threads, you just never know when they might let go on you.
...
Sorry I can't be more positive.

John, 

Thanks for the detailed explanation.  Don't need positive, but I can benefit a lot from info like you gave.

I understand the two-piece plug problem and solution. Less clear to me how too few threads can ever be fixed... maybe the inserts.

Will a one-piece plug and inserts fix this engine to the "no more reservations" point?

And even if so, is it generally worth the time and expense, vs. just buying something else?

Vagabound

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Will a one-piece plug and inserts fix this engine to the "no more reservations" point?

And even if so, is it generally worth the time and expense, vs. just buying something else?

I'm afraid I lack any personal experience with them and would therefore not like to speculate.

There are Ford specific forums where you can doubtless get much better info than I could provide.  If you're going to get a Ford truck, you probably need to join one, anyway.

I wonder if the later model heads would fit the earlier block?  If so, that would be a better solution than inserts.  

And keep in mind that it doesn't happen to EVERY 5.4 engine of that age.  If you really like the truck, just make sure you have enough of an emergency fund to cover it if it does happen.

If you do get one, do NOT attempt to change the spark plugs yourself, or take it to Bubba's Garage.  Take it to a good Ford dealership.  They have the factory training, experience, and special tools for dealing with the issue.

 

[frater secessus]

Something worries me about the bread trucks.  I did read a thread somewhere in the forum about those in general.  Thoughts?  Probably just my ignorance, but my gut says "Weird --> Problems --> Expensive and Troublesome".  

They *are* weird.

Although I am irrationally attracted to them several downsides are well understood:
- slow and akin to driving a soapbox car downhill
- their sliding doors are not sealed particularly well
- loud inside while driving (wear earplugs!)
- decreasing availability since jeepers want the small diesel engines, hipsters want them for food trucks, and some rougher ones are scrapped for the aluminum :-(
- etc

None of this affects my joy when I see one on the road. There is a 24' model for sale somewhere that still has the Doritos logo on the sign. Way too big for me but living in a Doritos truck would make me smile Every. Single. Day.

EDIT: my plan for a box truck would be a 14'-16' unit. 3' walled off "garage" at the back and the rest for the house.

 

[ZoNiE]

SOmething as old as a 1999 has more than likely had the plugs done. You can always use some piece of mind by just getting them replaced with new ones and the repair mod done right off the bat.

 

[Vagabound]

SOmething as old as a 1999 has more than likely had the plugs done. You can always use some piece of mind by just getting them replaced with new ones and the repair mod done right off the bat.

All of this makes me wonder if this problem was covered under a recall. Sounds like it surely should have been.

Vagabound

 

[Every Road Leads Home]

I would only consider the Chevy Express van's if buying used. They are virtually bullet proof and get better gas mileage. Why even take the risk with a ford?

 

[Dennis]

About the two piece plugs.......those were in the three valve engines and I read that the three valve engines were not installed in the E series vans. Also read the heads were changed to ones with more threads for 2004. Along about that time check about cam phaser issues.

Not trying to be negative on the Ford vans because I know not everyone of them has those issues. There are some decent priced ones out there, just a heads up on what you may/may not run into. If I were to find one of the earlier 5.4L Ford vans that I liked I would make it a point to have the plugs replaced doing the soak with penetrant and wait and lightly ease them out instead of muscle them out and risk stripping the threads. There are recommended torque specifications on those also. Just general overview of some of the reading I have done.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

About the two piece plugs.......those were in the three valve engines and I read that the three valve engines were not installed in the E series vans.    Also read the heads were changed to ones with more threads for 2004.   Along about that time check about cam phaser issues.

You're right.  The three valve heads were used in the F series pickups but not in the E series vans.  They stayed with the two valve heads.