Van Resale Value?

[MazdaGuy15]

So I'm about to pull the trigger on a new promaster 159" wheelbase about $30,000.  And after I build it out I wouldn't be surprised if I put another $10,000 into it.  If in a few years I decide I want to sell the van what is it really going to be worth?  I've seen old converted sprinters with 200,000 miles that they still want $30,000 and that seems really high to me.  My main fallback thinking is "IF" I change my mind and want to move back into a house could I get about what I put into the van if the miles are still fairly low?

 

[John61CT]

Buying new guarantees value drops off the cliff in the early years.

If you do a build-out yourself at low cost with a nice finish that appeals to the market, you're likely to recoup much of the materials cost but not your time invested.

If you're not 100% sure you'll stick with it for at least five years, best to start with a solid low-mileage second-hand base.

And why the PM over a Sprinter?

 

[MazdaGuy15]

I know I can't count my time as anything if I want to get the value of the van and material back after a few years living in it and I'm ok with that. I don't plan to sell the van anytime soon but that's a way for me to look at it as I'm not throwing 40K away if I don't like vanlife. And I will be making it nice inside since its me and my wife that will be full timing in it.

As for the Promaster over the Sprinter question.

The Promaster uses the 3.6L which is the only Dodge engine I like (I'm not a Dodge guy and don't like most of their products) It uses the same tranny that as their minivan with a taller final drive gearing for more torque and less strain on the tranny. Usually I wouldn't like that tranny but it hauls around 5000lb minivans loaded with kids and gear in stop and go city traffic (which is really hard on a tranny) So I feel confident with the taller gearing it should do just fine with a 6500lb converted van. And if the tranny does ever go bad it's a cheap tranny to get rebuilt because there are in so many in the minivans. The wider width to put the bed across the back and the lower floor height so its easier to step into are what seals the deal for me.

The Sprinter is more expensive right off the bat and the maintenance cost is going to be way higher not to mention the questionable reliability of there engines and trannys (a lot of the used sprinters I have looked at have a list of all the new parts on them; that means shit breaks) I'm more of a ford guy but again I don't like the ecoboost engines, sprinter prices, and the ugly dash to say the least.

 

[29chico]

RAM Promaster van??? 

Run away, screaming not optional.

Not kidding.  Even the Ford full size Transit, that has issues, is a far better bet for staying out of the repair shop.

 

[Wabbit]

Or buy a $2000 van, put $1000 into conversion? Then drive that for 5 years or whatever. Unless you have the cash, why take a gamble on something you might not really enjoy?

I am loving this fulltime thing, the better half not so much. And she loved camping 6 months out of the year for the last 5 years. Its not the same as camping to her. I hope you have fun doing whatever it is you do.

 

[highdesertranger]

you never recoup your money with modifications. highdesertranger

 

[John61CT]

If torque's what you're after, loads, towing, mountains, go diesel!

Sprinter is a COMMERCIAL product, city driving, stop and go is hard on anything.

And really unless you're rolling in it make do with a bargain used already-mostly-there package for a year or two, shop smart you may get most of THAT investment back if the life's not for (both of) you.

Meantime get used to the life, talk to owners, virtually shop to really get to know what you like.

IF you guys really love the life, after a year or two, THEN spend $40K (++ always +) and you'll end up with something much better anyway havi, g your experience guide you.

 

[MazdaGuy15]

I've been researching the life style for almost 2 years now and every time I think to get a house or stay renting I keep coming back to the van life. It is for me but I just like to know my options is why I'm asking of resale value. I spend $1000 a month right now for rent and a cheap house where I live is 250K so 40K to get the van I want verses making do with an older something is worth it to me. The way I look at it is if its still worth 20K after 2 years of living in it I'm still ahead of the game

And I'm not after torque for towing or mountains I will mostly be staying in the Twin Cities with the occasional road trip.

 

[Dgorila1]

Have you considered a late model used Class B or small Class C? You should be able to get one in great shape in your price range, and it will already be fully set up for living. They are all built on the commercial truck/van chassis so maintenance costs should be the same as a regular van. Just a thought.

 

[John61CT]

And unless you'd dump the wife over the life, you both need to be happy for it to work. Brings those odds down pretty significantly. . .

 

[MazdaGuy15]

We have looked at a lot of new and used class B's we don't like how big they are on the outside and how little room they have on the inside. They just have to much stuff that we don't want and are usually cheaply made. And yes both me and my wife need to be happy. She is really looking forward to road trips in it so even if we decide to stop full timing we will probably keep it and use it as a camper on the weekends. Again I don't plan to sell it I just like knowing options and where I stand.

 

[Ballenxj]

   Again I don't plan to sell it I just like knowing options and where I stand.

One thing about having the van is if you both decide it's not for you, you won't have to rent a Uhaul to move back into another house.
Just park in the driveway and unload.

 

[hepcat]

Or buy a $2000 van, put $1000 into conversion? Then drive that for 5 years or whatever. Unless you have the cash, why take a gamble on something you might not really enjoy?

Good advice, this.  Pay it heed.  You can buy a nice, low-mileage B-van for less than $20k, ready to drive.  You can save yourself a passel of money and a huge amount of time and trial-and-error learning by buying a used-B-van and using it for a couple of years to find out what you really DO and DON'T like, want, and need.   THEN if you want to go buy a cargo van and do your custom thing, you'll actually have experience about what works and what doesn't for you.  AND you can sell your B-Van for what you had in it... after using it for a couple of years! 

you never recoup your money with modifications.  highdesertranger

Your van, with your custom mods, will likely be worth less than an identical un-modded cargo van on the resale market and will have a smaller market of buyers.   A used factory-built B-van is much more in demand, and holds its value MUCH better. 

We have looked at a lot of new and used class B's we don't like how big they are on the outside and how little room they have on the inside.  They just have to much stuff that we don't want and are usually cheaply made.  

I always enjoy listening to folks who have ideas and opinions about what they think they want, like, and don't like without having actually experienced doing what it is they want to do.  

It's like folks who backpack or bicycle camp for the first time...  they take all kinds of stuff that they think they need... and find out they don't, but should have taken all kinds of OTHER stuff.  With backpacking or bicycle camping that's fairly easy to remedy.  Unfortunately, with a van, that may mean having to RE-build your van's interior.

Class B-vans aren't any bigger on the outside than a standard cargo van, so I'm not sure what you're referring to there.  And yes, they're small on the inside because they're built to have all of the comforts that most people find appealing.   The only thing that factory-built B-vans tend to be short on is storage space, but we all seem to make do.  Frankly I appreciate the amenities in my B-van.  And Coachmen was considered the bottom of the class for quality interiors.  

Consider, for a moment, that the primary issue you should be considering is "total cost of ownership" of a van.  I bought my '95 Coachmen for $5k, and  I've got another $5k or $6k in it in maintenance now, 20,000 miles later.  I've still only spent a quarter of what you're anticipating after two years... and according to comps, my van is worth about $18k were I to sell it today.  As close as I can figure, my van is costing me about $0.25/mile (total cost of ownership) with gas at $2.10/gallon.  Figure out what your proposed Promaster might cost per mile to own including license, insurance, maintenance, depreciation, and interest on a loan, if any.  "Total cost of ownership" is a really good way to compare the cost of owning various comparable vehicles.

So, perhaps those are some ways to look at what you want to do with a little different perspective.

Good luck with whatever course you pursue!

 

[TrainChaser]

MazdaGuy15: "I've been researching the life style for almost 2 years now ..."

Researching it isn't the same as doing it. There's no 'Well, we'll be home in a week'. There are a lot of things that people don't think about, like fixing three meals everyday, and then doing the dishes; trapped in a small space during two solid weeks of rain; finding the next place to park, and having to settle for a WalMart parking lot where the trucks keep their rigs running all night; keeping the van clean and organized so you can find what you're looking for. Are you used to cooking most of your own meals, or do you eat out a lot? Is wifey going to be stuck with the cooking, the dishes, and keeping the van straightened? Just like with the pioneers, the weather affects some people negatively. Some people look down on those who live in their vehicles -- will that bother you? Do you have an umbilical cord tied to the Web? Do you have hobbies to do along the way? No? What are you going to do when you're staying in one place for days or weeks? In an apartment or house, do you flit from one interest to another?

You've received some good advice above, although most of it conflicts with your 'need' to buy new. Here's what Edmunds (the car people) say about depreciation. Your loss is the next buyer's gain: https://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/how-fast-does-my-new-car-lose-value-infographic.html

 

[akrvbob]

I just bought a 2015 GMC Savanah with 12,000 miles for $19,000, still under full factory warranty. You can go to North Carolina and get a high top put on it for $2500, so for $21,500 you will have a 1000 times better van than that Promaster that will cost a tenth to operate and repair over it's lifetime and will have a far better resale.

If you gave me that new Promaster, I would turn right around and sell and buy a Chevy.

 

[LMTLMT]

If you keep it in top new shape, you should at least get 75% of it back with low miles. If you are dead set on the ProMaster, go for it. To me the Sprinter and Ford Transit holds value better. If I can afford a new van and $10k upgrade to start the van life, I would do it in a heartbeat too so its all depends on each individual's affordability.

People will always have interest in a camper/stealth vans, but just remember, most of the people looking doesn't have a budget of $30k/40k so finding that bracket of buyers might take a little longer when selling.

Most I say are looking at $8k and below.

My dream van is a new 4cyl Sprinter and also about $10k in upgrades. Good luck and post some pic if you do pull the trigger.

 

[MazdaGuy15]

I get where you guys are coming from but I do know my wants and needs. Building out my own promaster is probably the only way I will get into the lifestyle. Not saying there is anything wrong with going a cheaper used route but its not for me. A little background on me; I've bought 4 new vehicles and still own 3 of them so I know about depreciation. 08 F150, 09 honda motorcycle, 12 nissan versa, 14 mazda6 I still have all of them but the nissan. I payed off the loans on all of them in under 3 years for each. I currently own a house in Illinois that I completely remodeled and now rent out since I moved up to Minnesota for work. For me building out my own van is probably the only way I will actually get into the lifestyle and I feel like this is something I should do now so I don't regret it later in life. If I don't build my own van out I will probably rent for another year and then buy a house for about 250K. Van life isn't a way for me to live cheap I want to do it for the experience and freedom.

I also don't get all the "hate" on the promaster vs other vans. I know the chevy is a very solid van but It just doesn't fit the bill for what I'm looking for

 

[John61CT]

You asked for opinions and put the financial side of the issues out front and center.

I think you,got some very rational and apropos feedback. What you actually do with it, is of course up to you. . .

Do what you like, based on whatever rationale, you be you!

 

[Ballenxj]

  Building out my own promaster is probably the only way I will get into the lifestyle. 

You've gotta do what you've gotta do. As long as you've done your research, I suspect you will be happy with it.
I don't know enough about them to either hate, or like them. so I'll just watch how yours works out for you.
Good luck.

 

[Every Road Leads Home]

I'm in the exact same category as you in a few ways. I'm more for the lifestyle for the experience than I am for saving money. Not that it isn't a welcomed aspect to it. I'm also a fan of buying new vehicles. I'm also on my 4th new vehicle, after the first one I was hooked. I only have the most recent one as I trade them in every 2 to 3 years while they still retain a high trade in. I buy ones with large discounts from the manufacturer usually 8-10k off MSRP. This way most the heavy beginning depreciation is already accounted for. My current Silverado has had the biggest discount to date. I paid 28k for it and it's MSRP was 39k. So I got 11k off. I currently have 65k miles on it and could probably trade it in for 20k. I see comparable tucks for sale around 24k So I think that's a pretty good return on my original purchase. If you can find a Promaster with some big discounts I think it's a no brainer to buy new. But if you keep your vehicles for the long haul anyways it's kind of a moot point as resale is a lot less important.

You'll always get a chunk of your original price back a few years later so in my mind that limits the risk substantially. On top of that, you say even if you don't stick with the lifestyle you'd likely keep it for weekend trips. You're not sinking all your eggs into one basket. So even if it doesn't work out, you're not going to be homeless. You seem to have researched this particular van and know your needs so I say go for it. Nothing ventured nothing gained. Life is all about experiences. Even if you and your wife only do it for six months, a year, or whatever the time may be, I can almost guarantee it will give you a lot of fond memories you talk about for years to come. Those are worth whatever money you lose in the process of buying/selling the van.

I'm a fan of the Chevy's personally. I inherited my Dad's 03 Chevy Express in 08 and sold it 3 years later. I have tons of great memories from all the trips I did in it. I'm actually debating trading my current truck in on a new Chevy van. Just for kicks, I did a quick search on some promaster forums because I hear a lot of negative advice on them here. They certainly have a loyal following and a lot of happy owners. Couldn't find much on reliability issues but didn't dig too deep. I figure a new van has a full factory warranty so that would ease a lot of my worries. If it ends up being problematic you can always get rid of it before the warranty runs out.