Van Build-out - First Questions

[liandri]

Man, awesome guys. More than I can keep up with.

Ok, you're pushing more towards the rigid solar plan. GotSmart's build actually looks super stealthy. Given that the Fiberine top is 100% custom and built on the spot, I wonder if I could just get them to build a slot into it for the panels I plan to get. At least so the front has a buffer for the panels. Btw, they also have an option to reinforce the top with plywood sheeting, which they obviously recommended for my purposes.

Air Conditioning: I was planning on skipping it. Haven't had any for 6 years now where I live. A few well-placed fans has always been able to swap outside air for inside air very quickly. Thoughts? Sure, it'll be hotter to some degree. If ventilation fans can blow up into the bottom of the solar, they can both cool off the van, cool off the panels, and prevent the air from the panels from affecting the van in the first place. Thoughts?

Van recalls: Carfax shows no issues with this VIN, the van's been working since 2003, and is at 195,966mi. I figure we'd know if there was a problem by now? (don't forget I'm a n00b and the only car I've bought is a new Subaru Forester 1.5 years ago.)

$3k 400Ah LiFePO4s: http://www.balqon.com/store-2/#!/12-Volt-5-kWhr/p/45284624/category=12286436
$2k 4x 3.2V 400Ah LiFePO4s + BMS: http://www.ev-power.eu/Sinopoly-40Ah-300Ah/SP-LFP400AHA-Lithium-Cell-LiFePO4-3-2V-400Ah.html
And here's a 200Ah for $1.5k: http://www.batteryspace.com/lifepo4...60wh-10c-rate---un38-3-passed-3-2vx4-dgr.aspx

Box vans also nice, but less able to fit cleanly into any parking spot.

My coworker is bringing her Kill-a-watt in tomorrow, I'll take that and get a good measurement of everything. Hold 'yer horses. I almost never actually charge my laptop, it's basically always on wall-power. My girlfriend's, however, is basically always between 0-5%, lol. I'm curious to see what actually draw is.

So, pick your favorite AGMs. To hit 400Ah (just for a number), how much space does that take and how much do those cost? If I'm not mistaken, this pack would give me ~580Ah for $1k, only taking up 15.5"x14.625"x28". That's not bad at all! http://www.batteriesinaflash.com/de...attery-j185e-ac-4-flooded-lead-acid-12v-205ah

As you can tell, I'm still not decided nor dogmatic about any of this. Maybe we even skip the high roof and stay slinky!

 

[highdesertranger]

keep in mind CarFax is not the last word. I have posted this many times. not all shops report to CarFax in fact very few do. a vehicle could be totaled and not appear on CarFax. if an insurance company is not involved and someone wants to keep it off record it's very easy. most used car dealers keep everything off CarFax. highdesertranger

 

[SternWake]

If fiberine is willing to go all custom, then maximizing wattage via certain# framed panels , inset, flush, hard to see from the sides, accounting for ventilation and would be freaking awesome.

Going without AC depends on where you summer, your elevation and humidity. Fans are good enough for me.

Keep in mind with lead acid batteries you only really have 50% of their rated capacity to use. with Lifepo4 you can use 80% safely.

As far as the Top Dog, Dalai Lama of AGM, I'd go for the Lifeline GPL-30HT at 150AH capacity. This battery is as taller than a group31 and half an inch longer. Its CCA rating is only 50 or so higher than the gpl-31XT, but it weights another 22 LBS for 25more AH capacity. To me this screams even thicker positive plates, and positive plate thickness is usually a hallmark of a well built deep cycle battery, Odyssey and Northstar being an exception, touting their thin plate pure lead technology and still having deep cycle ability.

http://lifelinebatteries.com/products/marine-batteries/gpl-30ht/

http://lifelineb.wpengine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/GPL-30HT.pdf


With Lead acid batteries in deep cycle applications, heavier is better when comparing lead acid to lead acid.

 

[GotSmart]

One thing to keep in mind, is to have the ability to put a charge on the batteries directly from the alternator.  I ran for 6 months without solar, and only added that as I became less mobile and had more electronics.  

That is a detail that can be added at any time.

What exact model and engine set up are you looking at? 200K is a lot for gas, but not for diesel. Some motors have problems. I was talking about FACTORY recalls, which are free repairs, but can be problematic.

 

[amwbox]

The thing that concerns me with racks like that is this:

I get the impression that they are designed to support the weight of ladders and such pushing down.  What happens when you fill it with flat panels?  Can the air get between the roof and panels as you drive down the road at 60 mph and exert a LIFT on the rack?  And will the mounting points hold if they are dealing with a lifting force instead of opposing gravity?

Regards
John

I suppose there could be a little lift if the van is heavily weighted in the rear? It seems that vans typically sit slanted slightly forward on their suspensions, so there is a slight forward slope on the roof. Seems to me that a trivial amount of down force is more likely than lift. And the mounts seem to clamp on from two directions, so its supported above and below. Plus, it would be logical to have gaps between the panels for air flow. I can't see how it would amount to much if you aren't driving through a hurricane.

 

[liandri]

Man, I'm glad I came here... we're going to come out so much better off and for way less money.

Any suggestions on rigid panels? Price be darned, best wattage/sqft.

Looking at some renogy 100W panels and several others, they seem to be in the ballpark of 42"x22". Given that, it seems like the best way to lay them out may just be short-ways across the van, one panel after the other. However, they could also be laid side-by-side, long-ways, 2-by-2 (6 panels-worth, maybe). for shade mitigation, maybe the 2-by-2 method is better. Thoughts? And is there any good way to angle them towards the sun if they are that close together?

Assuming they are supported properly, can panels support someone standing on them?

 

[highdesertranger]

Assuming they are supported properly, can panels support someone standing on them?
NO.
highdesertranger

 

[SternWake]

Man, I'm glad I came here... we're going to come out so much better off and for way less money.

Any suggestions on rigid panels? Price be darned, best wattage/sqft.

Looking at some renogy 100W panels and several others, they seem to be in the ballpark of 42"x22". Given that, it seems like the best way to lay them out may just be short-ways across the van, one panel after the other. However, they could also be laid side-by-side, long-ways, 2-by-2 (6 panels-worth, maybe). for shade mitigation, maybe the 2-by-2 method is better. Thoughts? And is there any good way to angle them towards the sun if they are that close together?

Assuming they are supported properly, can panels support someone standing on them?

I am Not sure of the most efficient panel currently available.  

I am happy with my Kyocera 130gt, kind of got a hankering for their 325 watt panel, if I had to do it over I'd use one of these huge panels with reinforced corners and a way to also support the very center.  Needs a capable MPPT solar controller.

http://www.solar-electric.com/kyocera-kd325gx-lfb-325-watt-polycrystalline-solar-panel.html

No, you can't walk on a framed panel. .

I can tilt my framed panel 90 degrees toward either side of the Van.  The only time I do is to clean under it, never for extra solar harvest.  A warm and fuzzy option if I want it though.  I use a styrofoam cooler lid to hold it up and a bungee to keep it from blowing over backward with a gust.

Panel tilting is antistealth.

 

[GotSmart]

All panels are similar in power production.  There are some "super panels" in research, but price wise you would do good to just get a quality MPPT controller.  A van roof can not hold enough panels to make a difference in power production for your end needs. (Poly vs Mono) Brand does not make much difference, it is if the company will be around to honor the warranty if needed. 

If you do decide to go with Renogy, there is a link at the top of the page that says STORE. Go to that and look around.  You can always ask the main office for "open box" which is returns and discounted panels.  This link will give a small percentage to this site and help keep it going.  (Here I only make suggestions, not sales.) 

Just keep in mind that a quality roof vent will go further in keeping your van comfortable than any other single modification.  I believe you already have that figured out.  You will need to be able to clean debris from under the panels as well as cleaning the top for efficiency.

 

[liandri]

Sweet.

The awesome thing about all of this is I can basically take the kit and put it on the sailboat we eventually plan to get. That's why the idea of the van has been such an easy transition for my girlfriend and I.

 

[blars]

Generally, with LiFePO4 batteries you need about half as many amp-hours as you do with lead-acid. You also need 10-25% less solar. You may have to spend more on the charging system, but in my opinion most BMS systems are a waste of money. (and may reduce reliability.)

 

[29chico]

Generally, with LiFePO4 batteries you need about half as many amp-hours as you do with lead-acid.  You also need 10-25% less solar.  You may have to spend more on the charging system, but in my opinion most BMS systems are a waste of money.  (and may reduce reliability.)

Agreed on the BMS.  For house battery use they are not really needed if the user is willing to do a little bit of preventative maintenance and not over or under charge them.  The complexity of a BMS system can very well lead to a failure and damage a LiFePO4 pack.

 

[BradKW]

What's a BMS system again?

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

What's a BMS system again?

Battery Management System.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_management_system

Regards
John