Use 24V to Start a 12V Vehicle.

[Boyntonstu]

First:  DC motors can take higher voltages without ill effects, especially if run for short periods of time.

http://www.insidetopalcohol.com/threads/24-volts-on-12-volt-starter-add-a-sol-in-series.13979/

This link is a discussion of how to do it.

A few quotes:

24 volts will not hurt your starter as long as your solenoid only gets 12 volts.

24v to armature and 12v to the solenoid has always worked for me.

I did some heat tests. The 24v is actually cooler. Likely since it spins up so fast that less time is spent holding the button down.

Caution:  Not recommended for folks unfamiliar with electrical circuitry.

24 volts will not hurt your starter as long as your solenoid only gets 12 volts.


24 volts will not hurt your starter as long as your solenoid only gets 12 volts.

 

[John61CT]

Maybe worth discussing **why** even bringing up such an 'unusual' idea for discussion?

 

[highdesertranger]

this is a bad idea. there is no reason for doing this. on todays vehicles with all their electronics and computers if you hookup 24v to it you will fry everything.

why are we even having this conversation, it does no good. highdesertranger

 

[Boyntonstu]

this is a bad idea.  there is no reason for doing this.  on todays vehicles with all their electronics and computers if you hookup 24v to it you will fry everything.

why are we even having this conversation,  it does no good.  highdesertranger

The why of this post is simple:  The "How can one start a 12V vehicle with a 24V house battery?" question was raised and this is one solution.

The vehicle electronics will not be fried.   Nothing but the starter motor get to see 24 V if done correctly.

Another quote from the link above:

The 24 volt deal works great. Larry's battery's have worked well for us and we are wired just like every else that has posted with (2) 12 volt battery's and 12 volt solenoid. 

Just becareful not to put 24 volts to your entire car like I did. Only a split second but I had to change all the light bulbs in tach, shift light, oil lights etc. 

We can go 3-4 rounds and not even touch a charger.

Larry does have a nice CSI unit that Brandon may have mentioned. Don't have that piece but it looks really nice. 

I have the $15 Auto-Electric version. Works great

 

[tx2sturgis]

The link points to a guy called 'discodean' who wants to start the big motor on his dancing hydraulic car. I have no idea how this ties in to RV and van dwelling.

I'm guessing he is a young guy. Or....something. :dodgy:

Oh well...

Back to reality.

 

[Wabbit]

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If I smiley when I say it that means its illegal to feel I'm being insolent.

 

[John61CT]

The ASCII art doesn't resolve to anything intelligible on my screen.

Much like this topic, I see no reason to explore this?

 

[highdesertranger]

let's beat a dead horse. highdesertranger

 

[Wabbit]

...The ASCII art doesn't resolve to anything intelligible on my screen...

Thnx for the headsup. I'm on a 7" tablet. Just FYI, if you could see it you would admire my copy\pasta skills. Just sayin'.

It's a Picard facepalm. Why? Because of its originality.

EDIT: I appreciate thinking that is outside whatever box I am in. I do believe in warnings\disclaimers. I do not believe in discarding information just because it doesn't mesh with my world view or my limited experience with the world.

 

[tx2sturgis]

It's a Picard facepalm. Why? Because of its originality.

I see that now....but I was a bit puzzled...I kept seeing a fat hoot owl flying thru some kind of opening in a wall maybe...


Pssst....is that outside the box enuff?

:dodgy:

 

[666JTK666]

Pretty much
everyone is poo poo ing this 24v thing and realisticly it is not all that practical.
how ever if you are made out of money then there are some interesting possibilities.in

purchase and old van made in the late 60 all analog no computers.
install a cienhoff brushless mega amp 24v alternator or several.
retrofit mil standard headlights,tailights ect.
use a stirling power dc/dc battery charger.
install large 24v battery bank and 24v inverter.
install properly sized solar system for the long tail charge of the bank.

all 2 dang spendy for me.

 

[GGDirtyD]

I think it's a great idea. Good way to get your starter or anything else that you can get to run on 24v to work really well. More voltage is more power. A lot of the electric cars are already using these higher voltages cause they need it or they would be very slow. Turn your starter into a super starter or higher efficiency for your solar system. The downside is that it's ganna take a lot of knowhow to pull it off without breaking your bank. However, I think I may have found a solution. It would be expensive and could also be less reliable.

You could run everything in 24v except where it goes into your cars main electrical system. At which point you would use a step down transformer to step the voltage down to 12v. However, you would need either two alternators or 1 24v alternator. Not a good setup unless you got bank to break or for anyone that's not already planning on using a 24v solar system. I think this is what JTK was saying as well.

 

[wb8vyn]

Mack trucks used a series/parallel solonoid switch to disconnect every thing that used 12volts except the starter and elecrical fuel shut off valve during starting. fuel worked just fine on either 12 or 24 volts. the reason so that smaller cables could be used for the starter saving cost of starter wiring copper and to reduce the size/weight of the starter it's self. At least 2 12 volt batteries were required.
Ken

 

[GGDirtyD]

Mack trucks used a series/parallel solonoid switch to disconnect every thing that used 12volts except the starter and elecrical fuel shut off valve during starting. fuel worked just fine on either 12 or 24 volts. the reason so that smaller cables could be used for the starter saving cost of starter wiring copper and to reduce the size/weight of the starter it's self. At least 2 12 volt batteries were required.
Ken

That's awesome information. Thank you Ken. Way more potential for way less money in that idea. I might actually try that in my 78 chev. I tried to go with the mini starter and it's just not quite rolling it over fast enough. I think i just went with the wrong brand but it is a two battery system.

 

[wb8vyn]

Lifepo4 batteries so far
Recieved 3 Lifepo4 batteries bought through Amazon.
Hooked them in parrellel for 12 volt, fed by 4 100 watt solar pannels.
Let them cook for 1 day at which time my controller indicated 14.6 volts.
Will Prose Showed the internal parts to be of good construction and showed the BMS to work correctly.
Weather yesterday was partly cloudy. Charge rate from my flat mounted pannels up to 17 amps for two ours, down to less than 1 amp to start at daylight till 11 am then up to 17 from 11 till 2, then going slowly down till dark at about 5 pm.
Anyway I unhooked from shore power last night at dark. Now everything 110 is running on those 3 batteries including, Lap top nonstop, lights , fridge/freezer, perked 4 pots of coffee and an incidental fan in my propane buddy heater.. It's now almost dark, 24 hours later and still running on batteries only. Have not tried the microwave yet. (It's about 1000 watts for a short period of time, used to heat a hot dog or can of beans).
I use an 2500 watt inverter which is still working well after 3 years on lead acid batteries.(they died from over discharge).
The batteries are branded Watt Cycle, which I saw disected on Will Prose youtube channel. Looked good to me so I spent $650.00 or so. Looks good so far.
It's snowing out and cold right now. Temp 26 degrees and falling right now. Batteries are inside and toasty warm.
Later

 

[wb8vyn]

Been thinkin (2nd thought lifepo4 batteries)
Ok Ladytiles, Gentilies and reptiles! I messed up!
As i wrote, I recieved 3 Watt Cycle, Lifepo4 batteries from Amazon after seeing one tore apart on Will Prose's channel.
At the time, the only charging source were my 4, 100 watt flat mounted solar pannels, mounted on the roof of my trailer. All was well and good even though it's bad weather, It was a clear day so there was plenty of sun shine for that day and the solar pannels were producing suitable amps (17 amps from 10 am till 2 pm). You all know that at first light, solar pannels kind of sneak up on producing amps and such and then later on kind of head for nap time till dark again.
So---- at dark time, my solar controler indicated 14.6 volts in my brand new lifepo 4 batteries. I had to try them out. So--- I hooked them up to my inverter and disconnected the shore power. (gas generator).
I hooked everthing up to my inverter, powered by by my fresh, new batteries.. Not the microwave, that seemed a bit much at the time. Anyway lights, fridge freezer, laptop and coffee pot.
So off I went, now powered "off grid" In the woods and self contained. Everything was puring along just fine for the next 24 hours.
OK, over night It snowed off and on temp dropped from 29 degrees F to 17 degrees F. Im guessing that my solar pannels were covered cause the controller never got over 2,7 amps. and by that evening after dark the inverter was showing 11.9 volts input from the batteries. Everthing was still working but I thought I'd better not push my new addidtions any harder for the time being. So I fired up the generator and took thr load off the inverter.
Thats when I got the bright idea to buy a charger designed for lifepo4 batteries, on the cheap of course, so I ordered one from Amazon, advertised to produce 14.6 volts at 10 amps till shut down at full charge. Thats when the charge controller begins to show a full charge, blinking warning indicator. Soooo----I stopped the charge cycle. and went back to battery power via the inverter....It's after dark now so the only source of electic was from batteries.
I slept over night, ran fridge over night along with coffee pot when courious woods dennisens came by to see my progress with battery and solor power and more perking coffee brewing and computing etc.
So---today, a lot of snow which covered my solor and brought my batteries back down to 11.9 volts
So, here is the lesson learned, Don't be a cheap skate. Buy a bigger charger for your battery bank. 10 amps will not be enough to run your heavy draw stuff and charge your batteries as well. (even with 390 watts of solor on cloudy/snowy days).
Running a gas powered generator can get expensive, so bite the bullit for days when you need to run a gen for a while.
So now I have a small charger that is of little use to me. Heading back to Amazon to spend money on a more suitale charger. You have to put watts into the batteries before you can take watts out no matter what the supply happens to be. Lets hope for sunny days to help me keep costs down.
Ken

 

[abnorm]

I use a BOONDOCKER charger with adjustable output for my Lithium's.....................

https://www.bestconverter.com/Boondocker-BPCM-60-60-Amp-Adjustable-Power-ConverterCharger_p_585.html

 

[wb8vyn]

I use a BOONDOCKER charger with adjustable output for my Lithium's.....................

https://www.bestconverter.com/Boondocker-BPCM-60-60-Amp-Adjustable-Power-ConverterCharger_p_585.html

Thank you for realy good, useful information.
Ken

 

[wb8vyn]

Still thinkin (about the difference)
It seems that there are two different ways of using and charging lithium ION and lithium IRON cells. (the chemistry)
As I read many posts, many if not most refer to both as just "lithium" and lithium chemistry.
I have read abour balancing upon initial instalation and then over long periods, to "rebalancing" to get the best service from the group of batteries. (years). Charging and balancing is done by an internal BMS which I understand is more than a one time function. (As many as 3 times heavily discharged state to fully charged state).
I am still not certain that lithium iron and lifepo4 are the same by a different name?
Over time, and in the beginning of seeing lifepo4 being sold they were very expensive at $900 per battery but now are more in my price range (I bought 3 of them for around $650.
I bought the 1280 WH which ment to me that I could expect to run my 1000 watt micro wave for over one hour on a single battery, That is NOT good math because the conversion loss at the inverter is about 35 percent and more line loss added to that, so I bought 3 of them (1280 watt hours X 3). In my mind, that would be enough to heat a frozen microwave meal and still have enough left to perk a pot of coffee with lights till bed time.
Anyway, the solar pannels plus the 10 amp mistake charger has brought the batteries too full charge and now cycling on and off at about 1pm on a cloudy day. (very little load) Gen is running fridge, coffee pot) Laptop and phone are still on the inverter.
Comments are encouraged with thanks.
Ken

 

[Malamute]

This seems to have morphed somewhat from jump starting a 12 v vehicle with 24 v batteries to general power setups.

I finally bought a 1000a noco jump pack. Slightly smaller than a VHS tape, plenty to make several jumps on dead vehicles, and charges off the lighter plug or house current.
superior to jemper cables, as no other vehicle required, youre self sufficient.

Like this

https://www.amazon.com/NOCO-GB40-Ul...ocphy=9021133&hvtargid=pla-2281435184578&th=1