update of asset forfeiture laws

[Motrukdriver]

I dunno.. sometimes I think a lot of stories are biased to where a lot of details are left out to make the story teller seem more convincing. I've been driving since I was 14 (yes 2 years illegal but I still drove). I crisscrossed the US doing contract engineering and then after leaving that I actually drove for a living coast to coast. I've been stopped numerous times but I always offer up initial respect and always do the "Yes Sir" or "No Sir" depending on the question asked. I've never felt any fear that I would be arrested or anything would be taken from me. I believe the police are doing their job and if I can help them by making it easier and non-confrontational then both of us are better off. The last time a local po po asked me about searching my truck I just said "Sure thing" and I opened up every side box and compartment there was to open. Apparently someone had robbed the Walmart where I was bobtailed parked waiting for the shippers to load my trailer. Lawrence Kansas btw. We even had a nice chat about the town and how cool downtown was with the updates. He left me his card with phone number and asked me if I saw anything suspicious then please call. This is just my account of interactions with police, commercial vehicle officers, border patrol, military inspection stations and in general, anyone that could possibly make my life miserable. They haven't....

 

[John61CT]

These aren't just "stories", fully documented statistics in the public record, officials not "admitting" it happens but publicly defending it.

You probably present as someone police consider a "proper citizen".

The whole "war on drugs" was designed to target minorities and anti-war activists in the first place, and has had no positive effects, just taking us ever closer to outright fascism.

 

[user 37446]

Not to belabor the point but the same article mentioned above spoke of the tens of billions (with a B) in value that have been seized since (I think) 2003.  With anything of that value, there's corruption. Heck even tens of millions would breed corruption. For those of you in AZ, or traveling through AZ, this article from their online (Az Central) state newspaper said:

Begin quote - "[font=Arial, sans-serif][size=x-small]Emily Mahoney and Agnel Philip, The Arizona Center for Investigative Reporting [/size]Published 7:03 a.m. MT Jan. 13, 2017[/font]

[font=Arial, sans-serif][font=arial, sans-serif]Civil asset forfeiture laws let Arizona police seize tens of millions of dollars in cash and property each year, even if suspected criminals aren’t convicted, and with little oversight of how the proceeds are spent.[/font][/font]

[size=medium][font=Arial, sans-serif][font=arial, sans-serif]CONNECT[/font][font=arial, sans-serif]TWEET[/font] 1[font=arial, sans-serif]LINKEDIN[/font] 8[font=arial, sans-serif]COMMENT[/font][font=arial, sans-serif]EMAIL[/font][/font][font=Arial, sans-serif][font=arial, sans-serif]MORE[/font][/font][/size]

[font=arial, sans-serif][font=arial, sans-serif]PHOENIX – State laws allowed Arizona law enforcement agencies to seize nearly $200 million in personal property during the past five years – almost all of it cash – from people who may never be charged or convicted of a crime, but systemic gaps in oversight make it difficult to see how they spent much of that money.[/font][/font]
[font=arial, sans-serif][font=arial, sans-serif]Regulation of the program is inconsistent, and the reports designed to inform government officials about how and when the money is used are often missing data.[/font][/font]
[font=arial, sans-serif][font=arial, sans-serif]After analyzing more than 1,300 quarterly financial reports filed by agencies detailing seizures and expenditures from fiscal years 2011 through 2015, AZCIR found that the state commission tasked with compiling statewide civil asset forfeiture figures omitted roughly $20 million, or 16 percent of overall spending, from its reports.[/font][/font]
[font=arial, sans-serif][font=arial, sans-serif]Vague expenditure descriptions also keep the public in the dark about the program. Of what is reported, roughly half of the money spent went to pay police salaries and cover “other operating”  expenses. While advocates argue this helps police departments deal with budget cuts, critics of the system say this creates a perverse set of incentives for both law enforcement agencies and the elected officials who set their budgets."  End of Quote[/font][/font]

[font=Arial, sans-serif][font=arial, sans-serif]Bolding is mine.[/font][/font]

[font=arial, sans-serif][font=Arial, sans-serif]Yeah there's a financial incentive. If my small town,[/font][font=Arial, sans-serif] bordering a highway,[/font][font=Arial, sans-serif] has a [/font][font=Arial, sans-serif]fleet of PD[/font][font=Arial, sans-serif] vehicles[/font][font=Arial, sans-serif] was needing updating, you betcha' I'd be out there trying to find some loose coins in someones ashtray...[/font][/font]

 

[Motrukdriver]

Well here is to hoping nobody runs afoul with the po po and all your assets remain yours and completely intact.

 

[John61CT]

Well just like when certain populations of Americans are being systemically mistreated, in a way that is profoundly un-American, we should IMO all work to help rectify the situation best we can

whether or not we ourselves, or "our people" are directly affected by that injustice.

Support the Institute for Justice, the ACLU and Senator Rand Paul and Representative Tim Walberg's FAIR Act

http://ij.org/action/tell-congress-to-pass-civil-forfeiture-reform/

 

[bkpkvan]

And getting punished by law enforcement simply for "driving while black", or having another type of "non-mainstream" appearance or attitude in a less open-minded area is not something the victims are just making up.

Yes it may not be as rampant in as many places as some think, but the goal should be to try to eliminate the problem, or at least reduce the damage, as much as possible.

I agree with your assessment because I have WA state tags..and 'everybody knows' people from there (Oregon & Colorado too) are transporting marijuana.  True? Not in every case, but the perception is there.

 

[Florida boondocker]

wow ... a town with only 550 residents and a main street just 600 feet long has taken this law too far
https://www.forbes.com/sites/instit...sh-impounds-cars-to-fund-police/#46116ae13317

 

[UptownSport]

Sounds legit.

Lots of us gazelles, only a few lions, ones that got eaten probably looked at lion funny anyways

Arizona

 

[John61CT]

Wow, this seems one rare issue both left and right can get behind, Forbes isn't exactly progressive.

IMO this one issue is just symptomatic of growing LE impunity, many examples of our baby steps toward fascism encouraged by our fear mongering and overreacting to terrorism.

 

[TrainChaser]

Can't tell the cops from the robbers.

 

[John61CT]

how police used a traffic stop to take $91,800 from an innocent man

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/po...16686014/phillip-parhamovich-civil-forfeiture

 

[crofter]

how police used a traffic stop to take $91,800 from an innocent man

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/po...16686014/phillip-parhamovich-civil-forfeiture

[font=Balto, Helvetica, sans-serif]From the account: "driving down the I-80 in Laramie County, Wyoming"  I think this might be on our favorite roads list. I know I posted about the Hobo hot springs at Saratoga WY that is near there. Maybe someone should start a thread about roads not to travel related to this kind of negative & tragic experience?[/font]

 

[crofter]

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-...forfeiture


crofter
[font=Balto, Helvetica, sans-serif]From the account: "driving down the I-80 in Laramie County, Wyoming"  I think this might be on our favorite roads list. I know I posted about the Hobo hot springs at Saratoga WY that is near there. Maybe someone should start a thread about roads not to travel related to this kind of negative & tragic experience?[/font]

And possibly towns who find themselves blacklisted by a major tourism group or groups (like us for example) might change their policies and welcome us and our tourist dollars instead of having their police harass us.

Sorry about the double posting. ~ crofter

 

[Weight]

Over $90,000? Caring that much cash? Illegitimate or perfectly legal, it is not very smart to carry that much cash. Why would you not use the banks. Oh, right, banks are crooked. More likely the cash is crooked, and we don't want no stupid record of it.

 

[Wanderer]

Over $90,000? Caring that much cash? Illegitimate or perfectly legal, it is not very smart to carry that much cash. Why would you not use the banks. Oh, right, banks are crooked. More likely the cash is crooked, and we don't want no stupid record of it.

That's always puzzled me....I can understand carrying $5-$9K for purchases, cars, trailers and such...But $91K? Cashiers checks aren't safer? Of course, the banks report deposits over $10K...Maybe it was "Tax free" money?

 

[AreWeLostYet]

I worry about asset forfeiture a lot. Not so much in the present but in the future when I'll be driving my home and a pretty significant asset which can be easily seized.  Because I use marijuana to manage my chronic pain, in most states I would be committing a crime although I do have a medical card for it so would be OK in states with reciprocity. Still, I probably worry more than I need to.

Heck, I got pulled over on Saturday because I forgot to put my tags on my car when I renewed my plates several months ago. I didn't have my current registration as it was in the same envelope as my tags. The officer let me off with a warning. No requests to search my car. Just some concern that I could drive so long without tags. No questions about if I had cash or anything.

If you use cannabis then you carry cannabis delivery equipment. If you are pulled over and the officer calls in a k9 drug sniffer. The dog will react to the presence of cannabis odor and that will be grounds for searching your vehicle.

 

[John61CT]

Story with a new example
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/bank-drafts-seized-us-border-td-bank-customer-service-1.4749780

 

[crofter]

Story with a new example
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/bank-drafts-seized-us-border-td-bank-customer-service-1.4749780

Sounds like the Border Patrol wanted them to spend it all in Canada. Tragic. ~crofter

 

[John61CT]

No actual legal logic, they just see an opportunity to steal it, and do that.

Because they can.

 

[Almost There]

First, the seizure of large money orders at the 'border' has nothing to do with police asset forfeiture during a traffic stop or drug raid.

Second, the money is NOT in the hands of the border patrol. It is being held in suspense - not in the hands of the issuing bank, not in the hands of the intended recipients, not in the bank accounts of any government agency. The bank drafts are locked up pending a long slow investigation. Because the drafts originated in Canada they are most likely in the hands of Fintrac - see here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_Transactions_and_Reports_Analysis_Centre_of_Canada


It has been illegal to transport anything more than $10,000 dollars by ANY means (cash, drafts, cheques etc) across the border for decades now.

Actually, 'money laundering' legislation started almost a hundred years ago during prohibition. Most countries around the world now have some kind of legislation that prohibits or tracks large money transfers.

Here's a rather extensive write up on it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_laundering#Anti-money_laundering

Unfortunately, the executor was either given bad info or misunderstood and now the recipients are caught in the middle.







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