Unity Gain's Van Conversion - Planning Stage

[One Awesome Inch]

Still very much in the planning stage as I continue to try to save money and stave off divorce. I am trying to "prepare for the worst and hope for the best"... this is the prepare for the worst bit.

So currently I am brainstorming a bunch of ideas to make living in a large cargo van work best for me. These are just ideas and they may or may not see the light of day. There will likely be alot of editing to do. Keep in mind my goal is for maximum stealth in a standard white cargo van (E150, chevy express etc). My goal is to hide out in the open from police, security guards, nosey people etc. I will be 100% urban city dwelling and will stay permanently in the same general area. There will be no visible vents, rooftop sunroof/fan bumps, light emitting from windows etc etc. It will just look like a plain white cargo van from the outside. I may get some magnetic signs for the outside saying 'Jims Janitorial' etc.

Here is what I have so far. I am still trying to figure out "furniture" placement so I have a bed in the pic for now. Once I have exhausted all the ideas I have planned I will place furniture around as those ideas dictate.

I know some guys will say you will likely change things once you actually move into the van and that is likely. However, I am a planner by nature and it decreases my anxiety by planning things thru as much as I can.

I am sharing these ideas to see which just wont work as per the collective wisdom of the forum and to hopefully give others some tips they might find useful.

I thank you in advance for your ideas and suggestions.

 

[Reducto]

If you're letting light in you're also letting it out. If you have any light at all inside at night people will be able to see it through sheer curtains. I've wound up just blacking everything out and having LED lights inside when I want light. They do not use much power.

For the wall behind the front seats I've seen a bunch of metal security walls at junkyards - you could just put one of those in and add 2" foam behind it. It will look perfectly normal from the outside, discourage thieves, and give you a door to go back and forth. Should help add some stability if you were ever to roll the van as well.

If you're dumping grey water be sure to set it up so it only dumps when you choose. Liquids dripping out from under a van are a great way to attract attention.

No idea how your vents will work out - be sure to let us know!

 

[One Awesome Inch]

Lights on only at nite where i will use foam board in the windows to block it.

Great idea on the partrition from the junkyard.

Clean, strained grey water will be dumped using a valve inthe hose... or something.

 

[Belinda2]

Thoughts on your plan:
1. Why is the battery under the bed, but the battery box is between the front seats?
2. You could save space by using the front drivers side door as your main entrance than having two entrances (the rear). You have to have the front as an entrance anyway, so why not make that the mud room/anti-room where you drop your dirty, muddy shoes, let in the cold, make sure the environment around you is free from anyone noticing you are going in the back, and then enter into the main space? People come up quickly around your vehicle or glace out their window with the slamming of your vehicle door. It's best to go in through the drivers side the majority of the time. For example, when you are ready to go to bed, drive to your location, turn off the noisy engine, sit a few minutes in the drivers seat, make sure no one is looking, then enter through your main door into your living space.
3. The partition that Reducto talks about is key. It looks very industrial. Glass block is WONDERFUL for vents, security, and light, but is just as heavy and it looks too home like. The black curtain/carpet idea is just way over used. The metal partition at the junk yard is worth the dollars. They even have them for minivans for anyone else reading this post.
4. I don't see any talk of a kitchen space in your plan. Stove, possibly frig. if propane should be near a window or exit area to have ventilation. It's not practical to think you will always eat out or be cooking outside.
5. Again, I agree with Reducto about the light. Oh, I love light and windows. We could go on about how much I love that. You could maybe have one window that when you are in the van working for an extended time, say a desk area, that you could remove your black out/ insulation material, and then re-apply it back. But, the truth is, on a daily basis, all the black out material you choose to be taken down and put back up is not practical. It's better to be stealth and just keep it up all the time. For those times when you need full light for a short period of time, say at your office, have a mobile desk in a container or suit case, bring it up front in the van, sit it in the passenger seat, and work with you sitting in the drivers seat.

 

[One Awesome Inch]

Thanks Belinda. Here's where I'm at:

1. Will pick one option. It will probably end up going under the bed, but to maximize space in the back, maybe I can put it between the front seats if the box can be small enough. It has to be quite small though because if its an obstacle to getting into the back thru the partrition door... well its just something I don't want to do. This one is a wait and see for sure. Just brainstorming at this point.

2. Yes, the driver's door will be my primary entrance to the back. However, there will be times when I need to bring stuff in and out of the back and the partrition door may be too small and awkward. Plus its good to have a second exit in case of fire.

3. Yes its a good idea. However, one thing I am going to try to do as much as I can is to reduce as much noise as possible from entering my living space. Building a thick-ish wall will likely better to get things more soundproofed. I do like the idea that with the partrition I already have the door (big hassle to build) and it has more of the workman look for added stealth and security. Perhaps I will use the metal partrition as the outside layer and then build more insulation behind it. More thought required.

4. For kitchen I will have a one burner camp style stove, a cooler and a sink. I can purchase those blue freezer things and get them cold at work and refresh them in the cooler on a daily basis... if required. Overall the kitchen will be very simple. Especially in the beginning. Down the road I can always add to it and make it more complicated. Simple is the key right now.

5. This is another wait and see how things work situation. Uncovering a couple windows on a daily basis is no big deal. I definitely want natural light in the van during the day. Assuming the rear windows are not tinted (many actually are) I would likely use some sort of white sheer material that will let in light during the day yet still protect my privacy.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

 

[racs333]

well personally I would take a few bucks and invest in some furniture and some sound deading floor. 25 bucks for some reflexive floor and you depending on your budget, 1/4 inch plywood floor, save you a bit of wear and tear on the metal and much quieter to build on. I woul certainly recommend some type of closet or storage device, I see a lot of people using temp boxes and stacking them. that's all fine. but its a total waste of space. Provided you don't have a extended room grab a 1/4 inch plywood sheet split it into 4 sections, 2' x 4' take 2 of them you have a wall, take one make it a table and then use the second sheet and make shelves and a door, you can lock them and stack them to the roof plus you get a stable table fit it between the bed and the bulkhead, tied it down to the floor and the ribbing with a metal fastener.

id put the battery in here and wire it through, keeps it out of the way as well as in a secure location that can be locked and vented away if you build it out properly. I think you should definitely reconsider the option of getting a vented roof, I know your looking for a total stealth look, but honestly I don't think it would look that out of place. many vans have them. even work vehicles. I was looking around, hell even a airconditioner on some of them doesn't look that out of place.

But you could certainly build a second desk/storage area out of plywood. When we were younger we would make complete picnic tables and chairs out of plywood, cheap paintable and reconfigurable. look it up. You want flexibile and cheap. that's the way to go.

but seriously take the time build it up right. I was actually looking at wall hook panels, as a option for my walls to add to my storage space. not too expensive compared to plywood, my primary concern is after a year what would it look like. im a going to need to rebuild it because of condensation ruining the materials or simple wear and tear breaking the floor because I cheaped out and used 1/4 inch for the floor and I should have used 1/2 inch ( which is what I will be using) im a 300 lb guy, I like beefy solid construction.

 

[David]

Skip the vans with sluding doors. Buy a van with the double barn door on the side. This way to can close off the second door but still use the main door as an entry.

 

[Belinda2]

Sound proofing "ege crate type" acoustical foam is sold at 84 lumbar or special order through Home Depot. They are lightweight and you could use those.

 

[Patrick46]

Skip the vans with sluding doors. Buy a van with the double barn door on the side.

x2

 

[One Awesome Inch]

Skip the vans with sluding doors. Buy a van with the double barn door on the side. This way to can close off the second door but still use the main door as an entry.

Given the choice I would definitely go for a barn door van. However, if I find a good van for a good price with a sliding door it will be hard to pass up.

---

well personally I would take a few bucks and invest in some furniture and some sound deading floor. 25 bucks for some reflexive floor and you depending on your budget, 1/4 inch plywood floor, save you a bit of wear and tear on the metal and much quieter to build on. I woul certainly recommend some type of closet or storage device, I see a lot of people using temp boxes and stacking them. that's all fine. but its a total waste of space. Provided you don't have a extended room grab a 1/4 inch plywood sheet split it into 4 sections, 2' x 4' take 2 of them you have a wall, take one make it a table and then use the second sheet and make shelves and a door, you can lock them and stack them to the roof plus you get a stable table fit it between the bed and the bulkhead, tied it down to the floor and the ribbing with a metal fastener.

id put the battery in here and wire it through, keeps it out of the way as well as in a secure location that can be locked and vented away if you build it out properly. I think you should definitely reconsider the option of getting a vented roof, I know your looking for a total stealth look, but honestly I don't think it would look that out of place. many vans have them. even work vehicles. I was looking around, hell even a airconditioner on some of them doesn't look that out of place.

But you could certainly build a second desk/storage area out of plywood. When we were younger we would make complete picnic tables and chairs out of plywood, cheap paintable and reconfigurable. look it up. You want flexibile and cheap. that's the way to go.

but seriously take the time build it up right. I was actually looking at wall hook panels, as a option for my walls to add to my storage space. not too expensive compared to plywood, my primary concern is after a year what would it look like. im a going to need to rebuild it because of condensation ruining the materials or simple wear and tear breaking the floor because I cheaped out and used 1/4 inch for the floor and I should have used 1/2 inch ( which is what I will be using) im a 300 lb guy, I like beefy solid construction.

Thanks for taking the time to write your lengthy post.

Flooring is definitely something I need to really think over. I want maximum insulation (for warmth and soundproofing) yet at the same time I dont want to have an overly thick floor as that will decrease the van's interior height.

Its only hot where I live for about one month out of the year so I can get by without an air conditioner. If I find an roof fan/vent absolutely necessary I can always add it later. I dont think I will though.

I will likely get a small table with folding legs I can stick somewhere when not in use. I wont use a table all the time, but there will definitely be times when I'll want one. In general I wont have too much furniture or possessions in general. I like things minimalistic and sparse. Basically I need room for the following:

1 food... guessing 3 drawers will do. + small cooler
2 tools... one small suitcase should work
3. music gear... this will take the most space but is essential for making money on the side (apart from my day job)
4. clothes... just need a couple drawers (10 shirts, 3 pants, one fleece sweater, socks and underwear)
5. one pot, one bowl, eating utensils
6. one burner for cooking
7. sinking for keeping clean... I cannot stand dirty hair
8. propane heater
9. tablet / laptop... covers all entertainment
10. computer fan for fresh air
11. 5 gallon water container
12. foam bed measuring 30x72
13. bathroom bucket integrated into a stool with hinged lid

I might be missing a few other things but that covers most of what I consider to be essentials. Basically, besides the necessities I only need my music gear, tools and a laptop to keep me satisfied.

---

I really wish I could edit my posts after 5 minutes. Its driving my OCD nuts.

 

[SoulRaven]

Greetings!

From a city van dwellers discussion over on Yahoo:
<hr>

Cargo Van = Cops, Security Guards, Thieves, Nosey Neighbors, Tickets, and even Towing in some areas.

Best Stealth = Standard window van with dark tinted windows, blackout curtain behind front seats supported by flexible PVC pipe which can follow contour of roof inside. Blackout curtains can be added to inside of coach windows. Empty roof, no vents, solar panels, storage pods, nothing. Must look like standard passenger van, not conversion van type, people know conversion vans have beds in them.

Tips & Tricks: Always enter rear area under cover of darkness. Never open or close a door once parked. Parking on street near large apartment complexes preferred. Always install cutoff/kill switch to prevent theft. To deter break ins, remove divider curtain when away from van. Keep valuables out of sight at all times. Never dump any liquids or trash at your sleeping spots. Never let your van ..LOOK.. like you might be trying to hide something from the outside, that will ..ALWAYS.. lead to unwanted attention. Always arrive and leave your sleeping spot under cover of darkness. Darker color vans attract less attention at night. Do not carry your spare on the outside of your van, underneath or inside only.

Legalities: It is illegal in many places to camp or live in a vehicle on city/county streets. The more stealth your vehicle is, if encountering LEO's, the more scrutiny they are going to give it. The more reluctant you are to let them do a search, the more likely they are to cause you some serious problems, fines, and maybe arrest/towing. It is illegal in many states, and some cities/municipalities to carry propane within a passenger vehicle. LEO's can go absolutely ape if they find propane inside your vehicle, even the 1# containers. If encountering LEO's, be polite but not talkative, never volunteer any more information than what is asked for. If your location is the problem, ask where a safe, legal, place to park is located. If told camping is illegal in a certain city/area, leave that city/area immediately, and don't return. You may be on a watch list, and vulnerable to unwanted traffic stops.

About Stealth: The happiest city van dwellers seem to be those who do not practice stealth at all, but instead find more permanent parking arrangements where they may be offering night security at some sort of business. Some get paid, others may just get electricity, still others may only get a free and hassle free place to park. Regardless of pay or perks, a hassle free spot can be priceless. Some churches and other civic groups offer "Homeless Parking" or even full fledge homeless camps, a viable option for some. Inner city van dwellers sometimes rent parking spots in parking lots. Best results are obtained by being honest and up front with the parking attendant. While you are likely to get many "NO's", it only takes a single "YES". Great success has also been reported at food trailer courts, as night time security. Many inner city parking lots are now devoting some spaces to food trailers, these same lots, if unattended at night, might even offer a van dweller a free nightly space in return for security.

Security: Be very careful when carrying anything that may be construed as a weapon by LEO's. The legalities can vary widely by jurisdiction. You are usually bound by your current location, not your home turf's laws and regulations. Arguing with LEO's over weapons violations is usually a poor decision. No weapon is worth losing your home or freedom over.
<hr>
The above was posted on a "City Van Dwellers" site found on Yahoo, Nov/2013.

Their take on city van dwelling is a bit different than mine, but it's still some pretty valuable information on several subjects...

Cheers!

The CamperVan_Man

 

[akrvbob]

Unity Gain, I know many vandwellers who are as minimalist as you are and they live very happily in their vans. In fact when you go in them you are struck by how little is in there and how much room they have.

Great plan!
Bob

 

[One Awesome Inch]

Thanks guys. I really do appreciate your insights.

Previously one of the main reasons I liked the white cargo can is because 1. you have a bare bones workspace to build it the way you want. 2. white is best to reflect sunlight off and keep the van cool-er when it does get hot.

After reading CVM's thoughts about the dangers of cargo van I am having second thoughts. I think that **maybe** a passenger van with windows in the back might still give a fair degree of stealth provided that it is not a hightop and that the windows are blocked on the inside at night so that no light gets out.

Perhaps if the exterior was kept stealthy (ie no vents, fan bumps on the roof etc) most people would not think someone is living in it.

I really dont want to deal with cops with guns drawn. Have to say though, crime as illustrated by CMV is not very common where I live.

I definitely have to think this particular issue over. Any more insights would be appreciated.

 

[Reducto]

I think you're worrying a bit too much about being found out. It will happen but if there are no other indications of wrong-doing - pot smells, people knocking on the door and exchanging small goods, waste being dumped nearby, someone inside taking pictures of kids - most people will not bother you or call the cops. If they do, the cop will check your license for warrants and tell you to go away. I've read very few reports of people even getting a ticket much less ongoing legal hassle.

I'd stick to finding the best van you can within your budget and going for it. If it doesn't suit your needs, sell it and get something else.

 

[One Awesome Inch]

Greetings!

From a city van dwellers discussion over on Yahoo:

CVM... do you have a link for that website?

I looked to no avail.

 

[SoulRaven]

CVM... do you have a link for that website?

I looked to no avail.

Greetings!

You know... I probably don't... I saved it to my HD quite a while back, and it isn't a place I normally frequent. Odds are I got there from a link someone had posted somewhere.

I really need to start bookmarking the sites I visit again, I kind of got disgusted and quit bookmarking anything after having problems with both Firefox upgrades, and Chrome wiping out my bookmarks.

A couple of weeks ago, another firefox update, which I declined, installed itself anyway and wiped out all of my bookmarks, passwords, and everything. I un-installed it and re-installed my older version, but all my data was gone anyway. I had a heck of a time re-locating this site!

I think the site was called City Vandwellers, but it's been a while, and that may have been a thread or topic title rather than the site title. At this point I couldn't even swear whether it was a blog, or forum, or ??? My best guess would be the Yahoo van dwellers group, but I don't have, nor especially want an account there. It's possible that some direct link I followed bypassed their log-in requirement, or when I was there previously logging in wasn't required to read posts. Not sure...

So the info that I saved off, then added a couple of comments to, like where I got it from, is pretty much all I have left. Another possibility might be "The Vandwellers Network", seems like I read a lot of their stuff way back too. This is the only van dwellers site I've ever officially become a member of, and I lurked here for a very very long time before that. Likewise I have lurked at some others over the years that were readable without an account.

Back in the day, I had accounts on many sites, but when I get busy, I may be gone for months, and when I'd return, I'd find my account deleted, but they wouldn't let me re-use my user name, so I became much more of a lurker than a poster.

Cheers!

The CamperVan_Man