Unhealthy living in a brand new van?

[myke]

I am thinking about buying a brand new minivan and converting it... But now I am worried about the off-gassing of all the chemicals, and then sleeping in it. Any thoughts? I don't really want to buy used; I take really good care of my stuff and usually keep my vehicles for 10+ years so that is why I want to go new...

Or am I worrying about nothing... as long as I leave the windows cracked...

 

[GotSmart]

I know several members that have chemical sensitivities bad enough to cause them to have problems.  My only suggestion is to check out anything carefully, and perhaps look into air filtering machines.  MCS and HEPPA filters run up to $2K.  

The new car smell is not as good as it used to be.

 

[LeeRevell]

Try to use mostly used materials. Far less offgassing than new stuff. Even new stuff will reduce offgassing after a month or so.

 

[Jeannie]

As an asthmatic I highly recommend Aireox Research - their air purifiers are very high quality and they make one for vehicles (plugs into the cigarette lighter- how ironic!) http://www.aireox.com/index.php

I have reacted to new cars. Even if you are healthy the outgassing is bad for you.

 

[Spirituallifetime]

Buy 1 year old van, there should be no more off gasing. You will find some still looking new without the drive off the lot depreciation.

 

[myke]

I found this... from Toyota...

"Auto manufacturers are working toward one global standard to test emissions of VOCs in vehicle cabins at the component level. In the meantime, a voluntary standard for the full vehicle cabin exists from the Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association (JAMA). All 2014 model year North American-produced vehicles conform to this standard."

At least it's better than nothing...

 

[SoulRaven]

Buy 1 year old van, there should be no more off gasing. You will find some still looking new without the drive off the lot depreciation.

I'm working with over a decade old van and it's still offgassing. The worst of it does pass after the first year or two, but consider it similar to radiation levels - just because the worst of a radioactive incident is over fairly soon (usually within two weeks) doesn't necessarily mean it's safe/healthy to live in. Exposures are accumulative, I happen to have an illness (MCS) that means I'm on the extreme sensitive end of the spectrum so I've been forced to learn a lot of tips and tricks to reduce exposures in order to have any sort of functional life. For those less sensitive than I, it's all going to be a matter of where your comfort level is at with how much you expose yourself to vs. cost and effort and such.

Most of the offgassing will be in the upholstery. If you're planning to remove most of the upholstery as part of your conversion, then that would take care of a lot of it.

There's a product called "Lock-Out" by a company named AFM that is designed to seal the fibers to stop them from outgessing. I'm currently using this on my minivan and should be able to report on efficacy soon. The brand makes a lot of other products designed for less toxic construction that I'd recommend checking out.

Ozone machines (NOT 'air purifiers') work wonders to reduce offgassing, but they risk visibly ageing your interior. I've written about the process here. The machines are pricey but there are typically places you can rent them from if you'd rather not purchase.

If you're building over the upholstry (e.g. laying down flooring over the carpet) then far less of it will outgas int your living space. Then whatever you're building with would become a higher factor in your indoor air quality. AFM also sells products to seal plywood from outgassing.

If you want to include an air filter Aereox is far and above the only brand I can wholeheartedly recommend, and I've tried probably nearly all of them. They do make a 12V one. If you go with a different brand you at least want to make sure you don't get one that emits any level of ozone...breathing it ain't good for you.

That's all the advice I've got right now - there's not magic answer, unfortunately, just choosing what's most suitable to you.

 

[BigT]

I am thinking about buying a brand new minivan and converting it... But now I am worried about the off-gassing of all the chemicals, and then sleeping in it. 

Or am I worrying about nothing... as long as I leave the windows cracked...

Do you have a known history with chemical sensitivity, especially the kinds commonly found in new cars, or did you just read about it somewhere and now you're worried about it?  

Just trying to get a little background.  Your post doesn't say anything about your experiences with this issue. 

 

[cyndi]

Buy a cargo van, a metal shell, and do the build yourself. You'll have full control

 

[Ella1]

Read the reviews.
Consider an Austin Air Purifier. http://austinair.com/products/
http://austinair.com/products/healthmate-series/
Mine is in the van now. My model is large, and weighs 45 pounds. It removed the pine odor/chemicals in short order-at a guess about 10 minutes. I had thought to buy the BABY'S BREATH model, (smaller/lighter)but the sales woman told me I had the best model for my needs. Due to other circumstances I haven't been out since mid May. There seems to be a lot more info on this site:
http://www.allergybuyersclub.com/austin-air-hepa-hega-air-purifiers.html
IIRC, the sales woman said the "junior" models do not have a sealed motor, and that is what I needed.
Call the company and ask if your intended machine removes toxic chemicals, fumes and smokes from the air. And again, read the reviews. My machine has 3 settings. I would be able to sleep in the van with it on the lowest setting, which is what I had it on to remove the pine fumes.
edited to add, it does take up space, I can use it for a table top (cover it in case of spills) when not moving, and I carry O2.

 

[SoulRaven]

Austin Air caused me pretty severe reactions. :/ I tried several units. Best guess is the adhesives they use to put it together. Then again, for a healthy person a few adhesives may not make much difference.

 

[Ella1]

The chemicals outgasing in new cars are amazing. Google that for more info.
MCS / EI can be triggered at any time by any chemical or group of chemicals. Best to minimize the risk.
Each person with MCS/EI can/will react differently to different triggers: None f us are the same.
This is the only model I have tried, I don't have the money to try different brands. Yes, some companies offer money back guarantee if returned within certain restrictions, but the purchaser gets to pay return costs.
And everyone, presently sensitive or not, should be very wary of inhaling toxic chemicals in such an environment for any length of time.

 

[compassrose]

I used to work in a factory sewing blue jeans. The stacks of cut pieces used to have the paper pattern still on it. The paper had formaldehyde warnings on it. I guess you folks do know that "permanent press" clothing is full of formaldehyde. Also those clothes have NOT been washed. That includes underwear. They are not clean. Not by a long shot.

 

[myke]

Do you have a known history with chemical sensitivity, especially the kinds commonly found in new cars, or did you just read about it somewhere and now you're worried about it?  

Just trying to get a little background.  Your post doesn't say anything about your experiences with this issue. 

No I actually don't have a history of sensitivity to new cars. It's just that sleeping in one has me concerned because it is so much time in there... so there are both short-term and long-term effects...

 

[TucsonAZ]

I would strongly avoid sleeping in a new vehicle due to the outgassing and a filter while completely impractical to run full time also won't address the issues at hand properly. The charcoal based MCS version of the AllerAir for example is very costly ($1,000 plus) and would suck up a lot of power and it won't speed up the process of offgassing. Ozone also won't work, you can read up on it but in a nutshell while it will address low levels of odor by attaching to them molecularly and changing them it can also actually cause more offgassing because of that same process. If you were to ozone an older vehicle for example, it would address small amounts of scented product residue but won't address offgassing and would actually make it offgas more heavily for a short time. I have MCS and I own an Air-Zone XT4000, it has help with some things for sure but the uses are fairly limited. Same with the carbon scrubber I sleep with, it helps but isn't a solution to a bad situation.

This isn't something I would personally mess around with, it isn't worth the risk, I'm sure both Bitty and myself can attest to how much the MCS is unfun!

 

[SoulRaven]

Ozone also won't work, you can read up on it but in a nutshell while it will address low levels of odor by attaching to them molecularly and changing them it can also ...would actually make it offgas more heavily for a short time.

That's kinda the idea in how I use it...I don't want to breathe the stuff while the ozone is working through it, or directly afterwards. Rather i want to get as much of the outgasing over and done with when I'm not present so there's less of it happening when I am.

I agree with TusconAZ, though - a carbon air scrubber isn't going to fix the air in your van. It helps, some. Those of us who do things like run air scrubbers in our vans or wear gas masks do it because in some way or another our life depends on it, so we've been forced to make it work. For a healthy person...you can do it if you really want to, but I suspect you'd quickly find yourself asking "do I absolutely need this?" and finding the answer to be "no". Van life doesn't leave a lot of room for non-essentials, especially those that require power to run.

My personal advice to a healthy person would be first of all - do what you're comfortable with. You may not have MCS and you might be fine, but yes, it's a fairly significant chemical exposure to live inside without mitigating factors and there's no point setting yourself up for a boatload (vanload?) of worry. So figure out how much the worry factor is going to affect it vs. how badly you want a brand new car. Getting a car a year or two old could potentially be a good compromise. You could get one "certified pre-owned" which comes with a warranty and such I believe. But again, weigh in your head what you're actually comfortable with and what you actually want.

Then once you get something...I'd advise simply paying attention to how you feel inside it. By keeping an eye out for the concern, you'll know if you're experiencing an issue or not and if so there are methods you could use to address it. Or you could per-emptively do some MCS procedures just to set your mind at ease a bit.

It's always healthiest to have less exposure to harmful industrial chemicals, but that has to be weighed against enjoyment of life and other such factors. By having an eye out for the concern you're a step ahead of the rest, I'd say factor in what you're hearing here and then go with your gut. *shrug*

And btw new mattresses are absolutely horrible...

 

[myke]

^^ TusconAZ and Bitty... Great insight and info... thanks!

 

[Ella1]

Some states have a (limited) vehicle return policy. I think it was three days.
Years ago I signed a contract on a relatively new truck w/ crew cab. I was extremely sick from chemical exposures, recently medically retired and was still carrying a heavy load of toxins in me after several months. I brought the truck home and set it up to sleep in it that night. I couldn't do it. It didn't take long at all before I had to get out of it due to reactions. I took it back the next day and got my money back. I had added only the mileage from the dealer to my home and back.

Something like that may give you the time you need to find out how that would affect you.

 

[TucsonAZ]

The issue with the above comment is that just like if the truck had high levels of radiation it isn't an issue of whether or not it has an impact on you the first day, week, month. It's an issue of if you want to willingly expo your body to that level of chemicals without knowing how it will impact you long term.

 

[myke]

The issue with the above comment is that just like if the truck had high levels of radiation it isn't an issue of whether or not it has an impact on you the first day, week, month.  It's an issue of if you want to willingly expo your body to that level of chemicals without knowing how it will impact you long term.

Yes, it's the long-term effects I am more worried about; short-term I would probably be ok...