Understanding bar

[Optimistic Paranoid]

The picture on that blog shows the Triplite connected to an AC panel via the plug in cord.

I've just reviewed the instruction manual that came with my Samlex inverter.  It came with a GFCI outlet and it says not to hook it to a panel because if the neutral and ground are bonded in the panel, it will cause the GFCI to trip and it won't work.  So I guess if other inverters just use a plain outlet instead of a GFCI, there would be no problem hooking it to a panel.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

So, regarding the above diagram, am I correct in assuming, the shore power will go into the distribution panel first, the ac then goes to the charger inverter, then out to the outlets.

To get back to your original question, you've got to be sure that the shore power and the inverter output can't both be trying to power the distribution panel at the same time.  I'm going to have to try to download the manual for that Triplite and study it a bit before I can offer any advice.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

OK, I've looked at the manual and thought about it a bit.  The shore power cord DOESN'T go to the distribution panel, it has to go directly to the AC input on the Triplite.  The AC output on the Triplite feeds the distribution panel.  It passes the shore power straight through when it's there, and instantly switched to the batteries when it isn't.  Battery charging is automatic, whatever incoming power you aren't using to power something goes to charge the battery.

After coming to that conclusion myself, I decided to go check out that other blog to see how he did it, and, guess what?  Incoming power directly to the Triplite, not the distribution panel.

 

[galladanb]

John, your right! I guess I should have looked at the pictures he presented a little closer.
It does appear that the shore line goes direct into the inverter charger.
Per the diagram and the pictures!

Than into the distrubution panel.

Cool I can do that!

So, is this a good useable way to do the setup?

Thx for putting up with my ignorance!

 

[akrvbob]

I believe that is the inverter JiminDenver has, but his isn't a controller as well, just an inverter. If so, it's a great inverter. I believe this is the one Jim has:
http://amzn.to/2n31I8d

Jim, is that right?

When my current inverter dies, this may be my next one.

 

[VanKitten]

Ah ha...

*light bulb just went on*

What I have been calling a converter is not a separate unit...it is half of the "inverter/charger".

So..I take it this device is smart enough to know which way to "drive" the power... acting as the inverter (battery to AC) or the charger (shore power to AC or battery). This is an automatic function?

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Ah ha...

*light bulb just went on*

What I have been calling a converter is not a separate unit...it is half of the "inverter/charger".

So..I take it this device is smart enough to know which way to "drive" the power... acting as the inverter (battery to AC) or the charger (shore power to AC or battery).   This is an automatic function?

Give us the make and model number so I can look at the online manual for it.  I don't want to say anything until I see what they say.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

So, is this a good useable way to do the setup?

Thx for putting up with my ignorance!

Ignorance I don't mind.  It's only stupidity that annoys me.

If you're ok with "modified sine wave" instead of pure sine wave, then it should work just fine.  Triplite is a very good brand, very high quality, used in a lot of sensitive applications, hospitals and lots of other places where stuff just HAS to work.

 

[VanKitten]

Renogy 2000Watt 12V DC to 120V AC Pure Sine Wave Inverter Charger with 4 Outlets

I am looking around...the price seems to be all over the board...from$150 to $1500. How do I pick a good reliable one?

I figure I only need 2000w on a 12v system. I do not need the outlets.

So..... is this smart enough to handle functions automatically?

 

[galladanb]

Roaming Kat, define automatically... (Lots of interpretations...)

For me, I wanted to plug in shore power, and have the AC outlets become energized,
and when I pull the shore line, have the AC supplied by the inverter.
Without me having to flip switches or replug cords, etc., i.e. as little intervention as possible.

I could have had the outlets on a plug-in corded affair and simply moved the plug to the other source,
whether that source was shore, or inverter, but I did not want multiple outlets or extension
cords going everywhere...

SO, for me, I balanced the cost of an inverter, 30 amp charger, auto transfer switch, all separately priced.
And then I found the item I mentioned above.
It seems like it will do the job for us, and at a good price point.

And as far as modified vs pure sine wave, I think I will be getting another item called a Vagabond Mini,
which is a Lithium Ion pure sine wave long life battery pack. We have a lot of photography related use,
and the mini is a perfect choice for external power use. Long lasting, clean power, in a lightweight package.
It can recharge from the modified source or shore ac, just fine!

The Vagabond is a "100% Made in the USA" product line made locally here in Nashville, by a photographer for photographers.
The Vagabond of course can be used for any electrical need, and not necessarily photo related.
There is a video on the page where Paul Buff demo's using high powered flash equipment.
That is their target demographic.
I personally have owned one of each of the Gen one and the Gen 3, but sold them when I backed away from a photo career.

The product will fit in perfectly with our new Glamper RV Van project!!! SO we will be getting one soon, again!
Check it out here:
http://www.paulcbuff.com/vlx.php

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Renogy 2000Watt 12V DC to 120V AC Pure Sine Wave Inverter Charger with 4 Outlets

OK, I've looked at the manual and it looks good to me.  Should do what you want just fine.

Note that the outlets on it are GFCI so you CANNOT run a wire from the outlet to your distribution panel like Dan is doing.  The output has to be hardwired to the panel, which it has the features to allow.

 

[Weight]

My Samlex inverter has the provision for a hard wired 120 volt connection as well as GFCI outlets on the face of the inverter. I use the outlet as well as having it hard wire into the "panel". In a vehicle, RV, Van, or boat, the neutral and ground 120 volt must never be bonded together. Never.
I have a ProMarier battery charger that has a setting to use it as a power supply, while it is charging the battery.

 

[VanKitten]

Well...those outlets are not useful to me anyway.

I have, just today, started the wiring for outlets at the galley (microwave) and the one where my desk will be(printer and scanner) Put the boxes in...started to pull wire for them

 

[VanKitten]

Well,

  I read what everyone wrote.   Did my best to digest every bit of knowledge.

The imagine below is my current level of understanding.

I wrote some questions around the edging.

I added a power switch between the battery and the inverter/converter (charger).   I read that I need to have a way to cut it off when not in use at all.
I think that means I should also ground it with the AC circuit panel and not the common ground (bus) to the battery. (In the interest of true isolation). 
And, why is there a circuit between the AC circuit breaker panel and the inverter/converter? Shouldn't all that go through the transfer switch?

Then... the issue of the shunt/battery monitor.   Since there is two grounds...one from the common ground (bus) one to the chassis.   Does that complicate the grounding issue with the shunt?  

Ok....what did I mess up in this picture?

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

I'm used to dealing with separate inverters and converters, not combined units.  I prefer that so if one breaks, I don't lose both of them.

But anyway, if you are using a combined inverter charger, there will be no need for a separate transfer switch, it is built in to such units.  You will want to follow the installation instructions that come with it exactly.  But in general with such units, you will hook shore power up to it's ac intake and run the output to the distribution panel, and then wire the dc intake to the battery. 

Power will flow FROM the battery to the inverter/charger when it is operating as an inverter.

Power will flow from the inverter/charger to the battery when you are hooked into shore power and it is operating as a charger.

I believe it switches automatically, and there should be no need for a power switch between the battery and the inverter/charger.

 

[VanKitten]

Yes, That simplifies it. Thank you for explaining that.

Last one is the shunt. All diagrams I see show the battery with only one ground...to the ground bus. But, it makes sense to ground to the chassis too.

This then is the question...if the shunt belongs on the ground...which one? Or..does even having two confuse the matter and I should not ground the battery to the chassis too?

The rest of this pic I drew then looks good to go? Hey..I am getting closer to actually understanding this stuff! Next, move from theory to actual wiring.

 

[Weight]

House battery negative to shunt and no other connections, battery to shunt only. Other-side shunt connected to all negatives from any device and the chassis ground. The only way electrons allowed to flow is through the shunt.

 

[highdesertranger]

I believe the chassis ground needs to move to the side of the shunt where the wire goes to the ground bus. If you do it like your diagram anything that uses the chassis for a ground would bypass the shunt giving inaccurate readings. highdesertranger

 

[John61CT]

Shunt(s) go where you want to measure amps. A coulomb-counting bank monitor calculating SoC needs ALL current flows in and out to go through the shunt.

Other shunts could be on a separate load buss or charge buss, or even on specific devices if you want to keep an eye on those amps (in or out) with either a cheap little digital realtime readout, or a monitor that logs details over time.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

If you don't ground the house battery to the chassis, you will get no charging from the engine alternator because there would be no return path to complete the circuit.