Truck vs camper quality

[ovrcmr]

In my pursuit of finding a reliable van to build on at a budget that I can afford I've ventured into looking at economical trucks / campers setups.  I have lived half my camping life in the hard to reach places and vans do have some limitations in that regard.
Current 4x4 pickup prices seem to be within my budget if I get an older truck with lower mileage and a 4 season camper can be fitted depending on the price of the pickup.
I'm currently looking at the few 3500hd's that are on the market and 15-20 year old models with 150k or less could work in my budget but the lower the mileage the more it takes away my purchasing range in the camper market.  My budget is 25k for both and I'm wondering if in the long run skimping on the camper might cost me more. Campers ranging around 20 years old seem within range.
I'm assuming purchasing a truck for around 15k leaving 10k for camper will cost me less then the other way around.  I don't know anything about camper maintenance so is my thinking in line with the the truck costs outweighing camper costs for maintenance correct?
If I forego 4 season I can get a newer camper for less then 10k.  But I'm a cold sleeper so that puts me in the low lands more frequently. These also are lighter campers and I can find 2500's that are newer with 100k or less and they are prolific.
My total cargo weight isn't much in either case unless I haul my motorcycle but it's wet weight is less then 500 pounds so I could manage with lesser cargo capacity. 
What am I looking at for camper maintenance each year with the 4 seasons vs 3 seasons?  Is a higher mileage truck going to be cheaper with a near new camper vs old truck/camper with low miles?
Btw, I can do normal repairs so labor is cheap.

 

[ckelly78z]

There will be lots of used campers on the market in the Spring from everyone that bought new in 2017-2019. I have seen the crowds easily doubled at nice state parks with mostly brand new equipment being represented. $15,000 will buy you just about anything you want in the 2-3 year old range camper. If you go small, you can get by with a 1/2 ton gas truck (10 years old) that will easily pull a 25' camper, and still get decent mileage.

https://toledo.craigslist.org/ctd/d/dearborn-heights-2009-ford-150-f-stx/6970077761.html

https://limaohio.craigslist.org/rvd/d/lakeview-new-2020-rockwood-geo-pro/6974824268.html

 

[ovrcmr]

Sorry, I'm thinking truck bed camper.  But your point is well made.  I'm guessing the same is true with bed campers in the spring.

 

[bullfrog]

You didn't mention whether or not you required a wet bathroom and sink with black and gray tanks. Some people never fill or use their water tanks here in Utah and Colorado as keeping them from freezing is problematic. They use a separating toilet, water jugs stored inside the truck cab, hand held shower and a drain hose with a portable tank. It not only prevents freezing but allows them to buy a lighter camper with more storage and no worries about hidden water leaks due to vibration from rough roads. Most serious off roaders use 1 ton axles under their trucks so why not go for the factory 1 ton in the first place and save doing a lot of modification later if you can afford it? There are several examples of 1 ton trucks around with custom builds on flatbeds but there is a regular pickup here today with a nice older Alaskan cabover crank up camper on single wheel regular cab 1 ton truck with a motorcycle in the front rack that is really nice.

 

[ovrcmr]

The 3500hds are 1 ton pickups and 2500hds are 3/4 ton.  I'm hoping to score a 1 ton 4x4 here soon but good ones are scarce at a good price.  I've really considered dry baths if a bath at all but most setups that I'm aware of 4x4 tough are up there in price and are mainly pop ups.  From what I've seen anyway.  I'd love an Alaskan if I can find one.  Right now there's one in NC that might be possible but at the moment that's the only one I'm aware of for sale.  My current thought is going with a Northern lite or Bigfoot and leaving the tanks dry.  Any really rough terrain is out with the camper but I don't expect to take any VD trails with it.

 

[ByeBye]

I'm rocking a vintage 4x4 truck camper rig, '99 F450 flatbed and '88 Bigfoot 9.6 ft 1500 series but my plan is to stay out of cold weather so I am really just a 3 season camper.

Some of the Canadian campers have 2 inches of insulation and double pane windows, my does not.

 

[bullfrog]

How much space do you need/want and is it just you? How good are your building/mechanical abilities?

 

[MG1912]

I just recently went this route. I believe you are correct in your assessment of the off-road capabilities of vans vs. 4x4 trucks. I believe that only the Mercedes Sprinter has a 4x4 option, and it is very expensive. I believe most other vans need to be fitted with an aftermarket 4x4 system, which I’m under the impression very few van-dwellers opt for. I have a 2007 F350 6.0 Powerstroke diesel 4x4 with Rancho shocks, 18" wheels, and Nitto Terra Grappler G2 10-ply All-Terrain tires. The height of the truck camper (11' 6" tall at the tallest point on my rig) and the weight (my camper and gear are pushing 4,000 lbs.) make for a very top-heavy rig, so that affects off-road ability -- and I won’t be doing any rock-climbing carrying a hard-side truck camper -- but I still have a pretty capable 4x4 rig. I have already used the 4x4 on my truck to get out of a few muddy spots here in rural New England. But I also keep in mind what my cousin the mechanic always says: "Four-wheel drive gets you four-wheel stuck."

One-ton trucks are expensive, especially if they have low miles and are in good condition. I was looking at 1999-2002 F350 7.3 Powerstrokes, and ones with less than 100k miles in good condition were selling for almost $20k. For a 20 year old truck. That said, a similar truck today would be $60k or $70k. That said, I believe that $15k can get you a good truck if you find the right deal.

Regarding a pop-up vs. a hard-side truck camper, I only considered hard-sides because I wanted the protection from weather and noise, the greater storage capacity, and the wet bath. Pop-up campers are much lower and don’t have the same clearance issues that hard-side truck campers have (as I mentioned, I am at 11’ 6” at my highest point). They are also lighter. But the comfort factor was huge for me, as was not having to raise and lower the top half of the camper all the time.

There has been a lot of innovation in the past ten years or so. Windows, insulation, seals, etc. have all improved. Modern truck campers never have windows in front of the cab-over, for example. The industry realized those windows just let in water while driving in rain, so they stopped making truck campers with windows on the front of the cab-over. Modern truck campers have LED lights throughout, as well as things like USB ports, etc. That said, truck campers are built to a high quality standard, so they tend to be durable and hold their value. That said, I have no doubt a good one can be had for $10k. I was considering ones in that range.

I’m happy with what I chose (a 2007 truck and a 2013 camper), but another option I considered was a 2000 truck and a new camper. I would rather have the nicer, more modern camper than the nicer, more modern truck. However, the truck has to be absolutely reliable.

 

[ovrcmr]

It's just me planning on doing the trails like Appalachian and Pacific Coast along with Continental divide. Will eventually try a little stealth camping along the way but we'll see how that goes with a truck and camper.
My basic needs are a place to sleep and eat. A wet bath would be nice but not required. I've considered the pop ups but they are hard to find the aluminum framed cheaply. Capri basic model is tempting but at 12k to start I'm hitting my budget limit quickly but it may be doable. For a similar cost an older Bigfoot or northern lite has more stuff hence the question about maintenance. I can do or learn basic repairs pretty quickly but building stuff I'm finding more limitations in my abilities as I get older. I guess the question I have is how soon do the better quality truck campers start becoming a maintenance issue and are they more frequent then rv's because of them being in a truck bed? Is a 20 year old camper more likely at the end of its life then a 20 year old truck? Right or wrong my assumption has been campers last a long time. Be it infrequent use or taken better care of initially.
If not, I would consider a 5-10 yr old camper with a 10-15 yr old truck.
Almost all of the 1 tons I'm seeing are over 100k mileage under 20k with a few exceptions. But they can go 300k on the engines and trannys now if not pushed hard.
I may end up with a 2500hd which are prolific and a few 1000 dollars cheaper. Limits my cargo capacity but I'll find a way to make it work.

 

[ovrcmr]

How much space do you need/want and is it just you?  How good are your building/mechanical abilities?

Just me.  Old school maintenance I can do.  Building I'm finding harder as I get older

 

[bullfrog]

If you go to the foamies forum at teardrops and tiny trailers site there are a few simple topper builds. They can be built very cheaply. I basically built a 80" long box 80" wide that I could mount to the existing bed at barely stand up height, super strong and super light as well as well insulated for around $500. It has three 77" x 30" beds, one across the front up high mainly for storage and two down either side with a center isle. A C-head separating toilet, an Olympic heater, a portable on demand water heater, a shower tent, and a portable kitchen all fit inside easily and cost maybe $2000 so for $2500 and 2 or 3 weeks of work you have something that will work and is easily repairable that you won't worry too much about trashing when the perfect camping spot is just past some low hanging trees. Basically you have everything you need to go waterless if you do choose a factory built camper later. Just something to consider if you really want a newer more expensive truck.

 

[ovrcmr]

Wow, that foamie site is interesting. If I had a place to build it I'd love to give it a try. Living in an apartment has it's drawbacks. One of my friends who I could talk into using his space already thinks I'm an idiot for going fulltime nomadic. I think I'll bring it up with him, he might go for it. Can't hurt his impression of me any further.

 

[MG1912]

Almost all of the 1 tons I'm seeing are over 100k mileage under 20k with a few exceptions.  But they can go 300k on the engines and trannys now if not pushed hard.

My impression is that a good one-ton diesel engine is just getting broken in at around 150k miles, and many are pushing 500k or even 1 million miles.  "Good" is the operative word, of course.  The 6.4 Powerstroke (2007-2010) is widely-regarded as poorly-constructed, for example, whereas the 6.0 (2003-2007) is known to be great if key failure points are addressed.  The 7.3 (1999-2003) was exceptionally-good, and many can be found in excellent shape.  And that's just Ford.  I don't know much about the Duramax or Cummins engines, but I imagine they also had both phenomenal years and bad years.

One potential problem with a 20 year old truck is that, even if the powertrain is in excellent condition, the rest of the truck might be falling apart around that great engine, and eventually electronics start to go, old plastic gets brittle, frame steel starts to rust away, etc.  But there are plenty that are still going strong.  From what I've understood, gassers aren't nearly as likely to go past 200k unless they were exceptionally well-maintained, according to the mechanics I've spoken to.  Of course, there are exceptions, and one can find a good gasser.  I think I would have potentially considered a gas engine with less than, say, 75k miles -- as it would have had another 100k miles or so of life left -- if the price was right.

As one can see from perusing threads on this forum, a good, dependable vehicle is heaven; it lifts a tremendous burden off your shoulders and gives you peace of mind.  A temperamental, unreliable vehicle is hell; it adds significantly to your burdens and gives you endless stress.

 

[ovrcmr]

I've got my rig!
With everyone's advice and speculations I think I have something that I can live in and travel comfortably for awhile.
In finding the truck that met what I hope to be an economical balance between reliability and safety I purchased an older GMC Sierra 3500hd drw that I traveled to Pennsylvania to pick up. That alone required my taking a bus, a train, a plane, and another bus from my remote location to its remote location so I could drive it back. It was a fairly enjoyable adventure in itself and I got to visit places Ive never been.
The most distressing and only event of the trip happened outside Columbus Ohio on Friday late in the day when I discovered a flat tire on the inner rear passenger side. I'm new to dual rears and really didn't know how to proceed when I couldn't find the valve stem. Without triple A I decided to find a tire shop that was still open and drove into Columbus to a Pep Boys there to check it out. I was in luck for the fact that they were about to close in another hour and agreed to check it out. I expected to have to buy new tires but they didn't find any problems and luckily couldn't find a leak either. They didn't charge me a cent for doing this to my amazement. I've always liked Pep Boys when I had opportunities to find one and this made me a loyal customer.
I have just found a 20 year old pop up camper that was well taken care of and after getting the truck setup for the camper I got it mounted. I had hoped to find a good old standard 4 season camper to give me more storage room but I was either too late and someone else bought them or they were way out of my price range.
So I ended up with a Hallmark Cuchara XL which I only had to drive a couple of hours to pick up.
I'd love to post a picture as the truck and camper look really good together but my user account is too fresh to do so.
I had hoped to be on the road before the snow flies but it's not looking possible since I have a small truck to sell and cut down on all the stuff I can't carry with me.

 

[ckelly78z]

Congrats on your purchases, try it out see what works, what doesn't.

 

[highdesertranger]

we need pics or you are just making this up. just kidding well sort of, please show us show pics.

oh yeah congrats.

highdesertranger

 

[bullfrog]

Great job!!! I hope you find your set up works well for you, if not, you certainly gave yourself lots of options by buying a big enough truck.

 

[MG1912]

That's awesome! Can't wait to see pictures. I think you made wise choices. I don't know what year or spec that DRW 3500 is, but I'm almost 100% sure it is more than enough to handle that camper. In fact, I doubt you will have to make any suspension or spring modifications, at all. One of the biggest problems with matching a truck and camper is the weight consideration, and a lot of truck campers are way out of the safety boundaries of the truck's brakes, suspension, springs, wheels, and tires. You should be good to go. Can you tell us what year the truck and camper are?

I didn't know anything about that camper, so I looked it up. There is a glowing review on the truck camper magazine website of a 2011 Hallmark Cuchara XL. Wow -- a wet bath and insulation for cold weather performance. Even upper storage containers and an electric lift for the pop-up! The model they reviewed was a 2011, and you mentioned that yours was 20 years old, so I assume a 1999, so I'm not sure if you've got those features, but I do know that Hallmark is a trusted brand.

If you aren't super familiar with RV maintenance and repair, you might want to consider paying a mobile RV tech (they are all over the country) a little money to go over the whole thing, given the age of the camper, especially checking for water damage and faulty seals. An RV tech can also explain all the systems to you and troubleshoot them (propane system and lines, water pump and lines/tanks, electrical, etc.).

Maybe you, me, MaTaLa, and others can have a truck-camper cove at RTR. Congrats again on what seems to be a very wise and well-matched choice... and again... PICS!!

 

[Carla618]

I've got my rig!

Grats ovrcmr! Excited for you.

 

[wagoneer]

As an owner of a 1978 Alaskan Cab over I can recommend especially if you live in an urban area. the size when in the down position skirts most low tree branches that Sixpak had issues with. I am looking for a Callen with Barn Doors to replace the Alaskan. As I have 2 trucks and will sell the smaller one. There is a Facebook group on the Alaskan Camper.