Traction, not getting Stuck!

[ArtW]

Going down the highway noticing that it's looks pretty icy. Hitting the brakes and nothing happens. That's not a good situation.


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going down a residetial street and feeling the back wheels skating as your rear end steps out about 15 degrees ain't fun, either, lucky it was FWD that day

 

[Ballenxj]

Did you get that Eaton/Detroit Truetrac installed? Whats you think of it?

I did. It's better than it was, but I want to add weight to the rear before I can give any definitive answers on traction.
As far as driving with it, it's hardly noticeable, just feels a bit more grippy. Of course that's what I want.
Today started out a whopping 7 degrees and snowing, so I don't anticipate getting much done. :-/

 

[ArtW]

Toss a couple bags of cement in the back, that'll put some weight there

 

[Not That Bob]

Got tires and limited slip, 2/3 the way there!

If possible put the weight directly over the axle, centered above the differential/pumpkin.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Quikrete-60-lb-Tube-Sand-115960/100318522

 

[Ballenxj]

Got tires and limited slip, 2/3 the way there!

If possible put the weight directly over the axle, centered above the differential/pumpkin.

I like it! Checked on this and not available at any stores within 100 miles. How do ya like that? Hmm.
Yeah, I'm going to put the weight right over the rear axle when I decide what it will be. I'm thinking maybe a rectangular water tank for my potable water supply?
 
Thanks for the suggestions and input guys.

 

[Not That Bob]

Be careful with water, it can shift causing funky handling.

 

[Goshawk]

Be careful with water, it can shift causing funky handling.

And water freezes.


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[Ballenxj]

Be careful with water, it can shift causing funky handling.

I've got to have water in there somewhere, but since you brought it up, I wonder if I can find a low rectangular tank for potable water with baffles anywhere?
If the water freezes while I'm in there I might have a problem.

 

[Milk Hauler]

Momentum is your friend, or worst nightmare.

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[Ballenxj]

Took the van out for a run in the snow today. It now works a "lot" better than it used to. Had a guy deliver a propane tank today in a 4x4 Chevy pickup. I noted he was not getting the traction I seemed to be getting. I think he had to lock it into 4 wheel drive to get to the point I was in the van.
I'm extremely happy now, and haven't even put the weight I want in it yet.

 

[SternWake]

I've not tested my Van in snow and Ice nearly enough.

Previous RWD and Fwd vehicles I would intentionally throw the ass end out and around to learn how it responded to more or less gas and counter steering in both ice and snow and on gravel/dirt. Driving on ice with little to no traffic, on flatlands was something I greatly looked forward to as I would be drifting sideways well before a turn, and confident in my ability and control with a manual transmission.

The one Time I found a nice car free parking lot covered in ice and snow with my Van(open Diff), I could not get the ass end to swing out without using the parking brake. Usually the inside tire would just spin and hiss, or the front tires would just push, and I imagined an exploded differential if it suddenly grabbed, so I quit testing it and wasting fuel, and as such I have no really practice with how it would respond, and I do not like that.

Now 4 wheel higher speed drifts on Baja's backroads washboard were fairly predictable. I would drive with wheels on the loose stuff outside the regular ruts and just get a feel for the CG of the van, and how to toss it around, but passengers were horrified and screaming which seriously cut into my joy.

Buzzkills.


Since those days I have rebuilt my suspension with thicker front coil springs( moog 7272), and gotten rear helper airsprings and slightly oversize AT tires and KYB gas-a-just shocks on all 4 corners. After using a tape measure on a perfectly flat surface, adjusting Airbag pressure to get equal ride height on all 4 wheels, the van handles surprisingly well. When Descending the near vertical mile in the Sierra's out of King's canyon, I drove like a maniac with a couple 4 wheel tread scrubbing drifts on dry asphalt.

No doubt a passenger would have been screaming again, but I was free of such encumbrances on that thrilling descent.

I smoked a bunch of brake pad life though, and more recently replaced calipers and pads.

 

[Ballenxj]

I've not tested my Van in snow and Ice nearly enough.

Every day I have been taking the van out since the snow has landed, I will push it to the point of losing traction, then back off. I'm slowly building confidence in what the van will do. So far, every time I come back with a bigger smile on my face. Watching that 4x4 going through the same thing I was, and seeing I seemed to have better traction than he did was a real eye opener.  

 

[Not That Bob]

StrernWake's post sounds like me!  

As a young buck I would go out and play in he snow with my 70 LeMans.  I would slip, slide, do donuts, even do what we called a "Rockford" (taking off in reverse, get up to speed backwards,spinning around and continuing on). Little did I know I was actually teaching myself to drive!

Fast-forward to 2000 and I am teaching my first of 3 kids to drive. One part of "the class" was finding a open parking lot on a snowy day and scare the hell out of them. I would then let them drive making them hit the brakes, floor it, etc etc. They learned control.

Just recently my daughter told me a story about her driving and everyone was sliding on a snowy road. She realized she was gong to rear-end the cars stuck in front of her. She took her foot off the brake, tuned the car sideways and then slide sideways to a stop short of making impact. Her passenger was screaming and got mad at her afterwards for being so calm!! She did me proud, sniff, sniff.

 

[VanGrrl57]

@Not That Bob,

Yeah, it's been pretty snowy/slippery around here and I'm finding out that having a van with RWD (it's an '88 Chevy Astro) is a lot different. So far, while I have slid around in the van, I haven't hit anyone yet. LOL! I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

VanGrrl57

 

[Ballenxj]

@Not That Bob,

Yeah, it's been pretty snowy/slippery around here and I'm finding out that having a van with RWD (it's an '88 Chevy Astro) is a lot different. So far, while I have slid around in the van, I haven't hit anyone yet. LOL! I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Just take everything slower, and give yourself extra space to stop and you should be OK. I watched 4x4's slip off the road around here because they were over confident. Watch for ice and tippy toe over that at steady speeds.

 

[jimindenver]

Until I decided to get new tires and such for the Expedition I seriously considered getting a van for the room instead. This weekend put a end to that thinking as I was trying to return the trailer to its spot and had to stop the truck in a few inches of snow going up hill to unlock the gate. That truck wasn't going anywhere up the hill in 2WD. I put it into 4x4 and you wouldn't have known the snow was there.

 

[Ballenxj]

That truck wasn't going anywhere up the hill in 2WD. I put it into 4x4 and you wouldn't have known the snow was there.

A 4x4 is really two wheel drive unless you have some form of lockup between right and left wheels. I know this from when I owned a 97 Jeep Cherokee. Some special editions offer that option for extra money, but most people that own 4x4's really have a true one wheel drive in front, and one wheel drive in the rear. A lot of hard core 4x4 folks will remedy this themselves by installing limited or lockers in front, rear, or both. One set up with either front or back will now be at least a three wheel drive, and then will have a distinct advantage over two wheel drive with limited slip by one wheel.
A two wheel drive that has been set up properly with limited slip will now also have a solid two wheel drive. Of course a 4x4 can also have this done, and then the advantage swings firmly back to them.
Meanwhile, I feel much better about my two wheel drive that can also go where some supposed 4x4's can. This was the whole idea of this post, not getting stuck!

 

[Goshawk]

When I think 4x4 I think locking differentials. Including the center differential. My 1994 Toyota. Land cruiser had had lockers in all wheels and center. Basically it could not be stopped. Proven many times.


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[Ballenxj]

When I think 4x4 I think locking differentials. Including the center differential. My 1994 Toyota. Land cruiser had had lockers in all wheels and center. Basically it could not be stopped. Proven many times.

Was that an ordered option, or standard? Most 4x4's have open differentials on both front and rear axles. This is one of the things that bugged me about a lot of the sales hype. One example of this was Jeep stating a few years back that a Jeep was "Trail Rated." What exactly did that mean? I would have thought that meant they were well equipped to go anywhere? How wrong I was. If you truly wanted it to "Go anywhere," you had to build it. By building it I mean upgrade the suspension, put limited slip or lockers front and rear, upgrade tires, etc. I put a lot of money into that Jeep.  
 After that, I did hear that Toyota made some pretty nice 4x4's, but never got into one. Instead, I ended up semi building a Suzuki Samurai that managed to embarrass more than a few Jeeps. It was a little Billy Goat.

 

[highdesertranger]

a true 4x4 does not have a center differential. this is one reason I don't like AWD or whatever fancy schmancy name they want to give it. locking diffs are the way to go, just remember tying to turn a locked front axle is next to impossible. highdesertranger