Time for a Van Heater

[bullfrog]

VW buses were often reported when their maladjusted gasoline heater kicked on in the parking lot. They were only occasionally really burning!

 

[Axel]

VWs are notorious for their engines catching fire, then once burning the magnesium engine case burns spectacularly! Can't be extinguished using normal means.

 

[highdesertranger]

I was considering a wood stove but because of burn bans I decided against it. right now a heater is nice at night and the other morning it was 32 degrees. for sure heater weather. however there is a burn ban in effect so no solid mass stoves. to be legal the heater/stove must have an off valve to turn it off. solid fuel heaters/stoves do not have this therefore are not permitted. also pointing to someone else and their bad behavior does not give a person the green light to defy the ban. defying the ban only makes it harder on everyone else. highdesertranger

 

[Axel]

[font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][/font]

[font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Test fired the heater. Five small charcoal briquettes gives me about 1-1/2 to 2 hours of consistent low heat. Will try it again with ten briquettes to see what it does. The outer shell stays cool to the touch, but the top of the firebox and flue get hot. The barometric damper stays cool, as does the control for the air intake at the bottom. I’ll install it in the van this week.[/font]

 

[nature lover]

If I had a bigger rig I would consider a woodstove. However having heatEd with wood in several different houses over the years one of the worst problems you just can’t turn that heat down that efficiently. Not like you can gas or Even electric when you’re connected. I am using a cheap $20 ceramic electric heater with two settings 600 W for 1200 W. I have the fan set on low the 600 W heater set as low as it goes and it cooks me out of here. But better than a woodstove as soon as I turn the switch off it startS cooling down Rapidly. My experience with the woodstove is it can’t be controlled as well. Again if I had a bigger vehicle I’d consider it but I don’t have a big vehicle just a regular size Dodge van. I dislike the Mr. buddy for the same reason - it cooks you out. One of you smarter nomads just gonna have to invent something that can be controlled better and not overheat the small space. Until recently my cooking stoves have been propane but I did buy a butane to use inside and I’m very pleased with it I’m finding that butane flame is easier Add just the heat more precisely than my Coleman propane. Now if I could just find a source for cheap butane. in my old rig are used a single burner propane stove to heat up my large Dutch oven which I filled with marble chips. Then when I went to sleep I turned off the propane for safety sake and the cast-iron Dutch oven with the marble chips stayed warm for a few hours. At least it made the first trip to the bathroom a little warmer but by morning it was still cold. God bless the nomads and keep us all warm.

 

[desert_sailing]

I was considering a wood stove but because of burn bans I decided against it.  right now a heater is nice at night and the other morning it was 32 degrees.  for sure heater weather.  however there is a burn ban in effect so no solid mass stoves.  to be legal the heater/stove must have an off valve to turn it off.  solid fuel heaters/stoves do not have this therefore are not permitted.  also pointing to someone else and their bad behavior does not give a person the green light to defy the ban.  defying the ban only makes it harder on everyone else.  highdesertranger

I certainly don't know every nuance of the burn ban laws but in  Washington state  and it appears also in most other NW states that if a wood stove/burning is the only adequate source of heat (70 degrees at 3 feet) they are exempt from the ban.

I know also that several years ago Wa. state courts ruled that if a person was living in a vehicle it was  considered to be a HOME. The ruling came about from cities impounding peoples vehicles.

I wouldn't mind a little wood burning stove of sorts. The stove in the op looks terrific. Burn bans in winter are primarily due to air quality and not fire risk...at least up around here. (eastern Wa.)

It would be nice to see a definitive on this for the various states. I doubt many states consider a vehicle a home, unlike Washington.

 

[highdesertranger]

your talking private property vs. public land. you can try any excuse you want on public land but after all the fires of the last few years I doubt you will get very far. besides after all don't you want to do the right thing? I know in Oregon if there is a burn ban on it applies to all property public and private. you cannot defy the ban because you are on private property. jeez what's so hard about obeying the burn bans, why do people even want to argue this.
highdesertranger

 

[desert_sailing]

Neither excuse nor argument is needed when following the law. Obviously laws vary and it is important to be aware of those.

https://ecology.wa.gov/Air-Climate/Air-quality/Smoke-fire/Burn-bans

There is a huge difference in having a campfire or burning garbage in the backyard and someone doing so to stay alive in the cold. Nearly every governmental site state, federal, and tribal all reference back to OUTDOOR burning. I just reviewed 9 of them ranging from Oregon, Washington and Idaho..and several tribes and counties within each. I saw not one indication stating people were forbidden from burning wood as a source of heat INDOORS.

I doubt many people want to be responsible for setting the forest on fire.  I doubt even fewer folks want to die from the cold either.

I may have missed it but I thought this thread was speaking on INDOOR heating.

 

[Axel]

So, I've been running the heater all afternoon and evening, and it's very easy to control the heat output using the adjustable barometric damper and inlet damper. Also, with only five charcoal briquettes it puts out very low heat. My Mr. Buddy heater is a lot hotter on low than this thing is with only five briquettes. With ten it puts out more, but can be dialed down quite a lot. Haven't tried 15 briquettes or any other fuel, but I think the barometric damper is the key to effectively controlling this thing. Very happy so far. I'll probably start the installation tomorrow if there's time.

 

[Axel]

I'm looking forward to trying anthracite coal to extend the burn times. Less expensive than charcoal and more fuel-dense. Maybe I should convert my house to burning coal as well - it's only $100 per ton, which is a fraction of what it would cost to use the gas furnace!

 

[Axel]

I should also look into using whale oil to light my house! Do you think the Forest Service would frown on using whale oil to light my van?

 

[Axel]

Neither excuse nor argument  is needed when following the law. Obviously laws vary and it is important to be aware of those.

https://ecology.wa.gov/Air-Climate/Air-quality/Smoke-fire/Burn-bans

There is a huge difference in having a campfire or burning garbage in the backyard and someone doing so to stay alive in the cold. Nearly every governmental site state, federal, and tribal all reference back to OUTDOOR burning. I just reviewed 9 of them ranging from Oregon, Washington and Idaho..and several tribes and counties within each. I saw not one indication stating people were forbidden from burning wood as a source of heat INDOORS.

I doubt many people want to be responsible for setting the forest on fire.  I doubt even fewer folks want to die from the cold either.

I may have missed it but I thought this thread was speaking on INDOOR heating.

Common sense.

 

[Axel]

I suppose a lot of people have the mistaken idea that just because technology is old, it's somehow bad. This is especially true with older folks who, trying to fit in or "keep up," are always clamoring for the latest and greatest.

How many times have you heard of a wood or charcoal pile exploding because it got overheated in a camper? How many times have you heard of wood fumes leaking into a house causing an explosion or fire? Have you ever heard of static electricity setting off a wood leak? Wood is so flammable that we build our houses out of it! - Doesn't that sound ridiculous? Do you really know if the person building and installing that propane/gasoline/diesel heater in your van knew what they're doing? There are numerous examples of natural gas, propane, gasoline, and diesel explosions and fires.

People have been using solid fuel heaters for centuries, including your parents or grandparents. It takes more care to tend a solid wood appliance, sure, but it's not any less safe with a responsible person tending the fire. A properly installed solid fuel heater attended by a responsible person I think may be safer than some of the propane or liquid fuel heaters out there. Idiot-proof doesn't always equal safety.

 

[abnorm]

Eight days here..........NICE !...........

The Forest Service does NOT allow the use of woodstoves in a BURN BAN

 

[Axel]

It's not a stove. It's a heater.

 

[Axel]

But what about using whale oil? Should I use whale oil instead?

 

[highdesertranger]

these people just think they are special. Doug do you remember the city info sign in town?

"NO FIRES OF ANY TYPE! WHAT SO EVER."

in Oregon these signs where everywhere. I must have seen a hundred of them.

the property owner where I spent the summer has a wood stove heater and she said that under NO circumstances could she use it during a burn ban. I asked and I talked to her about it, before this thread even came about, like 2 months ago. in those times she relied on electric heat.

now I don't know what is so hard to understand about "NO FIRES OF ANY TYPE" it seems plain enough English to me.

"People have been using solid fuel heaters for centuries,"

and they have been starting fires with them for just as long.

highdesertranger

 

[Axel]

And at no time did I say that I would violate a ban if it actually applied to my little heater. Are you clear on that?

 

[bullfrog]

There are a lot of variations of what is and isn’t allowed but generally wood and charcoal that leave an ash are not allowed not only because the actual burning process but because the ash must be disposed of properly which often it isn’t and has been determined by many governing agencies to cause fires. If it is propane and burned in a container controlled with a valve it is normally allowed as there is no ash and can be immediately turned off at the source. If it were me I believe I would modify the wood stove so that a propane burner could be installed inside the wood stove when needed during burn bans. Most grills simply have an entry hole for the gas to burner line, add a valve in the line and with a clean burn area and flu and you are good. If no burn ban simply remove the burner and line/valve then put a cap on the thru pipe. Some commercial heaters are available in either wood or gas using the same burn chambers so it must be possible to do this. Just something to consider. Being able to use more than one source of fuel makes it more versatile.

 

[desert_sailing]

OK... so we have established that different jurisdictions have their own rules regarding the use of heat through combustion indoors during burn bans. 
These rules can be quite restrictive and it is important that everyone is responsible for being in compliance with the "rules".

We also know that most heat production occurs in the winter when burn bans are not in place other than for air quality.
Even now the entire western half of Wa state is NOT under a burn ban. https://www.dnr.wa.gov/burn-restrictions
This is the area that most would assume would be in a ban because of the sizeable population and the swaths of forests.
Just a month ago the whole damn place was ablaze...and no burn ban in place at the moment.

The legalities of when and what a person can burn should actually be split from this thread as the OP clearly was doing a review of what can be a very good and viable product for many van/nomad folk.

I appreciate Axel for taking the time to share and review it with us. I think there are people all over the country who could possibly use this item. I know plenty of people living in rvs and vans here in Washington right now,....even some of them using this forum! that could certainly benefit.

Good luck with the heater Axel and please do keep us posted on your testing of different materials.

It is getting cold up here and I have found myself calculating btu alot more.In fact my propane catalytic heater wouldn't start the other day..
Fortunately I am still in the driveway and had access to an electric heater...got me to thinking of needing a more basic and reliable source.