The Stress of E & E?

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Svenn said:
There's a lot of theorizing and hypotheticals on this forum... anticipation is usually more stressful than the event itself.  

...

All of this being said, I do feel much better that I'm in a truck now than the old days when I was in a car/van.  For some reason that extra 6 inches of clearance off the ground makes me feel way less exposed and vulnerable.

Your first point is a good one to remember.  All complicated equipment needs to be calibrated -- including the human brain in a new experience or location.

The second part -- 6 inches of clearance.  Sorry, I've got to ask ... was that a joke?  If not, please explain because it went right over my head either way.

Thanks,

Vagabound
 
Yogidog said:
I do find the west where I have only been for a month to be completely different in attitude toward vehicle dwellers, they call them campers here. This lowers my stress termendously!  I have slept great but I have been mostly in wilderness.

I couldn't understand when people experienced in boondocking out here would say there was nothing to worry about, now I get it, we are not all cramped into together, aggravating each other.

U describe my experience in Michigan very well and other places not friendly to people sleeping in vehicles. It was stessfull, I coped by "keeping my eye on the prize" as suanne recently said, remembering who I am, trying to help and think about others. Concentrating on good parts, accepting consequences of decisions I made.  Using it as a challange to increase things I value, 

Look forward to reading others thoughts thanks for posting!

Rather than an absolute of "this problem doesn't exist" or "wow, such a problem", it is becoming apparent that regional differences seem to be key here.

I also look forward to more replies ... both about how to deal with the stress when it does occur, and how to avoid it in the first place.  "Move to the other half of the country" is a compelling prescription, but not possible for everyone, thus coping strategies are important to consider as well.

Thanks,

Vagabound
 
Damian Rolling said:
... 

In fact, the only instance I can find where someone got into real trouble just for sleeping in their vehicle happened in Key West in 2013 ...  Here is a link to the story: http://keysnews.com/node/54335. I think it is important to note according to the report the guy was given SIX separate warnings from police before getting the citation and summons.

Damian

Good meaty reply!  FYI, the Key West story link doesn't work.

Thanks,

Vagabound
 
cyndi said:
...

I overnight in all kids of places, but generally NOT on the street. Walmarts, Crackerbarrels and other big box stores, rest areas, truck stops, 24 hour Dunkin donuts and McDonalds.

Sensible to scope it out and prevent problems before they happen.

To be clear, is that a list of places you do use or you avoid?

Thanks,

Vagabound
 
Vagabound said:
Your first point is a good one to remember.  All complicated equipment needs to be calibrated -- including the human brain in a new experience or location.

The second part -- 6 inches of clearance.  Sorry, I've got to ask ... was that a joke?  If not, please explain because it went right over my head either way.

Thanks,

Vagabound

I'm not Svenn, but I'm pretty sure he's referring to the higher ground clearance of a pickup putting you above the likeliest impact zone when car hits your vehicle
this is why SUVs and full size trucks are considered 'more dangerous' yo OTHER drivers, not the driver of the SUV / pickup
 
TrainChaser said:
I went back and read the original post again.

...

The only place that these things would go through my head is during stealth camping in a populated area, which I will pay cash to avoid.  

WHY would it even come up when boondocking???

And the Take 2 Award goes to .....  ;-)  Thumbs up for taking the topic seriously enough to read it again and thanks for adding more info.

Why ... boondocking you asked?  Maybe it doesn't.  That is one of the reasons I'm asking about this.

Thanks,

Vagabound
 
We've been doing this for such a long time that it's not stressful at all but in the beginning, until you get used to sleeping in strange places, it can be stressful. You'll soon forget all about where you are and sleep very peacefully. That being said we do as Cyndi does and almost always go to places where we know it's okay to overnight - Walmarts, other big box stores, Cracker Barrel, rest areas, truck stops and casino lots. These are our choices if we can't boondock on public land so we use these if we are in the eastern states or in cities in the west. If we want to stay in a city for a week or more we move around to different store parking lots and are usually gone for most of the day.
 
Vagabound said:
The thoughts must run through your head:  Where do I go?  How long should I stay?  How do I get what I need?  How do I avoid being detected?  Who will bother me?  Will tonight be the night for the always possible "2am knock on the door"?  What will the impact be this time of getting forced out of a spot?

Where do you go? Where you don't look out of place, or where there are others like you. Or where no one is vigilant. For example, the minimum-wage people working at a fast 24-hour fast food joint are too busy doing their job to check whether someone has been parked in the lot for hours. If the lot isn't specifically posted with restrictions, go for it. If several shops and fast food joints share a parking lot, you can find a spot that might make employees think you're on someone else's turf and therefore not their problem. Also, you could try ASKING if you can stay someplace. A church, a farm, etc. You could even ask the police if there's someplace you could go. That way you know whether the town is flexible or hostile, and if they have a suggestion, you'll have the peace of mind that they won't roust you.

How long should you stay? It depends on the type of spot you find and the general vibe of the location. If you're blending in, stay as long as you like. But if it's a place that's hostile to overnighting, move on.

How do you get what you need? You aren't likely to get hassled driving to the store and parking in the lot among the other vehicles. You're just shopping, not camping.

How do you avoid being detected? Again, blend in as much as possible. That also might mean going to your pre-scouted spot at night and observing blackout protocols. No lights or sounds. Just go to sleep.

Who will bother you? If anyone, probably law enforcement. If you're on private property (remember parking lots are private property) you might have the owner or someone who works for the owner telling you to leave.

Will tonight be the night for the always possible "2am knock on the door"? Maybe, but it will probably be no big deal. It's a good ideal to have a Plan B spot already picked out so you're not wandering around. Having an idea where you can go decreases the stress.

What will the impact be this time of getting forced out of a spot? That depends on how you generally react to situations. Some people never get excited. Some get upset way out of proportion to the actual problem. Most are somewhere between. Getting rousted can be a learning opportunity. You find out what type of spots and/or what type of towns to avoid. You learn that you weren't blending in well enough. And, having gone through the situation, you become tougher.
 
Vagabound said:
To be clear, is that a list of places you do use or you avoid?

These are places I stay when I'm traveling. I'm just over-nighting. If it's not obvious its ok to spend the night, I inquire.
 
Vagabound said:
Rather than an absolute of "this problem doesn't exist" or "wow, such a problem", it is becoming apparent that regional differences seem to be key here.

I also look forward to more replies ... both about how to deal with the stress when it does occur, and how to avoid it in the first place.  "Move to the other half of the country" is a compelling prescription, but not possible for everyone, thus coping strategies are important to consider as well.

Thanks,

Vagabound

The differences aren't totally regional!

Yes, in the east BLM land is virtually non-existent. There are National Forests but not nearly as much as in the west. So, yes, the choices are more limited.

The differences lie largely in rural vs urban areas. If you're trying to stay in Time Square in NYC, there's a bigger problem than stress going on.... :rolleyes: :D :D

But still, places to overnight exist in ALL areas of the country. 20 years ago we didn't have access to anything like the Allstays.com and Freecampsites.net websites so we had to wing it. If the W/M was posted for no overnight parking one found a 24 hour coffee shop and parked in an obscure corner.

Today, with the on line resources that we have available, IMO there should be little need for anyone to NOT look for someplace where it's okay to park.

Some people like to push the envelope and dare I say it, enjoy the adrenaline rush that comes with doing so.
 
I am in the west, the farthest east I have been is Texas the farthest north Alaska. out west except in the very big cities I don't think you will have problems. in a small town I have spent 3 nights in an empty field behind a Jack-In-The-Box while pulling the heads on my Blazer no one said a thing. another time in another small town I needed to repair a trailer. I pulled into an empty lot right across from the police station I was looking right into the lobby. so I went over and talked to the officer behind the desk and explained my situation and asked if there would be a problem, they said go ahead. a few hours later a sergeant came over and asked how I was doing, I told him I was almost done and would be gone within an hour he said don't worry take all the time I needed. he then went on to talk to me about prospecting after about 15 minutes another officer stuck their head out the door of the lobby and yelled something at the sergeant, he sighed and said oh well I need to go to work. what I am trying to get across is out west it is much easier. I have never been asked to move on in rural towns in fact I get more of a vibe that they want me to stay. highdesertranger
 
HDR, Attitude is everything.  

By the attitude you present to those LEO's, you were not only not a threat, but a welcome addition to their day.  

When I was stranded in Blyth, I let the LEO's know the situation, and they put me on their route to keep an eye on my van.  A year later I saw one of them at Smart and Final, and he asked how my rig was.  :D
 
here in nw oregon it is common place for people to travel/live in rigs,there are 3 living in travel trailers with in my eyesight,keep things clean and smile and wave
 
Got Smart I couldn't agree more. don't try to hide, be open. everybody in town knows you are there anyways, if you try to hide you only bring more scrutiny down on yourself. highdesertranger
 
I am having the same experience as gotsmart and Highdesertranger. The policeman after the salt flats blowing off my aluminum flashing was super helpful, after I calmly approached him, from the passenger side, explained what I was doing. I have learned if I am doing something out of the norm to let them know, otherwise they are going to wonder. I am often doing something out of the norm:)

The security guards at sands have an extremely hard job, keeping track of who is staying and who is hanging around. I explain why I am here not gambling, keep my id and room key and offer to show it to them.

Two rangers have been great, one is quiting his job after 15 years, I was able to be a sounding board on he is not a loser! We are going to email. Standing around talking to him seeing what his job entails, was eye opening, the questions from campers never stop, on every subject under the sun, and they all want something done.

Anyway for me this all has to do with greatly reduced stress, not feeling like a hostile enemy in a foreign land!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Vagabound said:
Good meaty reply!  FYI, the Key West story link doesn't work.

Thanks,

Vagabound

Sorry - it works for me. Regardless, here it is from keysnews.com posted 24 March 2014.

Note - the report is actually about how the defendant filed a complaint about police conduct on the night he was cited, but has details about what happened. He has a history of knocking heads with law enforcement.  

Damian

***   ***   ***

Van dweller on CRB agenda
'Cops smeared my name in court'
BY GWEN FILOSA Citizen Staff

A Key West man who unapologetically lives in his white Dodge van near Higgs Beach and has accused police of harassing him, wants a city-appointed board to clear his name.

Shahdaroba Rodd, 67, who was convicted at trial of violating the city's lodging-in-vehicles prohibition, has complained to the Citizen Review Board that two officers lied in court about having found a bucket of human waste inside the van where he sleeps.

"I most certainly did not have any feces in the bucket," Rodd wrote in a complaint filed with the city about the March 9, 2013, incident at the corner of Casa Marina Court and Reynolds Street.

Police Officers Marcus del Valle and Darnell Sealey didn't include a word about finding anything like human waste inside the 1999 van. But at trial, they told Judge Wayne Miller that they could smell the filth from inside Rodd's van.

"I am not a sloppy, dirty, unkempt person," Rodd wrote in the five-page complaint filed Feb. 24 with the board that reviews allegations of police officer misconduct.

"Does it even remotely make sense that I would defecate in a bucket and then go to sleep when I could walk but a very short distance and use a public restroom?" Rodd wrote. "Certainly not."

Del Valle and Sealey said nothing of any waste smell in their initial report or on the video recording of the incident, Rodd said.

Rodd said the police want to portray him as a health hazard in Key West with "this totally preposterous" bucket testimony and says they single him out for the lodging law, which the city bolstered in 2012 in an effort to rein in homelessness on the island.

The Citizen Review Board will hear Rodd's complaint at 6 p.m. tonight at Old City Hall, 510 Greene St.

City: Case already closed

City officials say Rodd has already had his day in court, where Judge Wayne Miller in December found him in violation of the city law.

"The matter was and remains a matter for the courts," Police Chief Donie Lee wrote in a March 14 memo to Susan Srch, executive director of the Citizen Review Board.

Assistant City Attorney Ron Ramsingh agreed that Rodd's objection to the bucket story and claims of harassment were addressed at trial.

In 2013, police warned Rodd six times about illegally living in his van. Three others were warned for illegal camping or lodging since January 2013, according to Sgt. Joe Tripp.

When asked his address, Rodd said his van, Miller pointed out in his Dec. 19 ruling that dismissed the van dweller's allegations of police harassment and comparing his citation to the type of conduct barred by the case law Pottinger vs. City of Miami.

Hardly, the judge said.

Pottinger addressed the city's practice of arresting homeless people who had no other place to go to "exercise simple life-sustaining activities," and confiscating their possessions.

In contrast, Rodd is making a clear choice to live in a van.

"The city of Key West affords homeless persons the opportunity to temporarily lodge in a facility called KOTS," Miller wrote, referring to the Keys Overnight Temporary Shelter on Stock Island.

Rodd "has made a conscious decision to not avail himself of the opportunity that KOTS offers," the judge concluded.

Rodd was never taken into custody and formally arrested the night of March 9, 2013, the judge noted. None of his property was taken.

"The facts of this case were undisputed and uncontroverted," Miller wrote.

Judge: Rodd is no victim

At about 10 p.m. March 9, 2013, Rodd was locked inside his van, which had privacy shades across the front windshield, police reported.

When emerging from the Dodge van, police described Rodd as unkempt, red-eyes and obviously having just been asleep.

"In addition, there was a 5-gallon bucket within the van that appeared to contain human waste," Miller wrote.

Rodd's van had a solar panel, blacked-out windows and a clothes line attached to the roof, which also held a makeshift wooden storage area holding plastic storage containers, police said.

Rodd "was not involuntarily placed in the position of being 'homeless,'" Miller wrote. "The defendant has consciously chosen that status."

Rodd was issued a citation and summoned to court. Miller also denied Rodd "indigent" status after a records check showed three vehicles registered in his name: a beige Volkswagen van, a red motorcycle and a white station wagon.


[email protected]

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highdesertranger said:
I am in the west  ...  another time in another small town ... in fact I get more of a vibe that they want me to stay.  highdesertranger

They say a picture is worth a thousand words.  Sometimes the right short story is also.  Thanks.

Vagabound
 
Damian Rolling said:
Sorry - [the link] works for me. Regardless, here it is from keysnews.com posted 24 March 2014.
...

DR,

I tried the link several times on the day you posted.  Never worked.  Tried it again today, works great!  Who knows.  Thanks for taking the time to cut and paste the news article in this thread.
As an aside, I couldn't help flinching in the first sentence:  "A Key West man who unapologetically lives in his white Dodge van ...".  I guess, in addition to everything else, we're supposed to be apologizing ... to somebody ... for something.  Live and learn.

Thanks,

Vagabound
 
I see it as a challenge, sometimes frustrating when I can't find a spot that feels right after half an hour of cruising around, but not really a source of stress.
Now it would be different if I was stuck in a town, trying to evade vigilant LEOs. If I was busted once and given a stern warning then the stress would build up and I would have a hard time relaxing.
I don't have a problem sleeping in public, never had. I am on an epic adventure, there is nothing at all to be ashamed about. I do sleep discretely, though, to avoid getting off on the wrong foot or offending any sensibilities.
Overall though it is not much more stressful than making sure you don't get into a head-on collision while driving. Remain alert, use your intuition and common sense.
 
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