the solar charge controller MAZE

[flying kurbmaster]

  this has to be the most confusing part of a solar system. MPPT, PWM, manufacturers, price range, Chinese Japanese or American made, I was liking the Bluesky 30A PWM, but I can buy the Tracer 20A MPPT new BN series for a bit more money and it seems the range of cost for mppt's is  from 30 to 300, how do you tell??? I was liking PWM but after research I am feeling MPPT, this Tracer is mid range and I like the remote monitor option. The more I read the less I know, how have you  dealt with this maze.   I am ready to buy but can't part with my money because I don't know who to give it to....   I need help, last night :sleepy: I  had a nightmare I was surrounded by solar charge controllers, (they were all made in the image of beautiful women of different ethnicities,)   I couldn't decide which one,  in frustration I decided to become the charge controller, I stuck one of my solar panel cables in my mouth, the other up my @#* ..... that's when I woke up, shaken, burnt, feeling like a blown fuse....

 

[highdesertranger]

"spill the wine and take that pearl" . just kidding. how many watts do you have in panels? what voltage? how many amp/hr is your battery bank? are you going to expand in the future? highdesertranger

 

[TucsonAZ]

If you're over or ever plan to go over 400w buy the MPPT, otherwise the PWM will serve you fine. If you're looking for a good controller, good company, good guy, good support with a budget buy a Rogue charge controller, right there in OR and a great guy. If you have more to spend and want something fitting of a larger system, the MidNite Classic 150 as it already has the battery monitor built in.

I wouldn't personally buy Chinese, factor in resale value, warranty, support, quality and the price is too hight for them honestly. A $600 CC was a HARD swallow for me but I'm happy I made that choice after months of the same agony you're dealing with. In the end, I figured I would rather fall on the side of the best and MidNite is at the top right now with Rogue being much smaller but a great product for the price.

 

[Canine]

I dunno,I am using pwm controllers and have had no problems.When the sun is shining I get electricity.When it's cloudy and not shining I get less electricity.What's not to like?

 

[TucsonAZ]

If you're under 400w the loses you get from a PWM CC can be negated with an additional solar panel for the money you saved. After 400w it makes more sense to buy grid tie panels which are much cheaper and use that money you saved to get a MPPT which in turn will give you more of the actual power harnessed from the panels without loss. I won't go into how this works other than to say MPPT cost more and is more efficient, it also allows for higher input voltages which can mean smaller wiring or further away solar panels. There are situations where MPPT becomes a must have but normally after 400w is when it makes sense. Unless you needed to get the most power from the smallest amount of space with say a single 300w grid tie panel versus three 100w 12v panels.

 

[jimindenver]

There are no right and wrongs. Solar is a balance and what is available and affordable is part of the balance. There are a lot of nuances in setting up a system that will make it work for you in your situation but maybe not mine. I always tell people to start with the roof, out of what you can get will fit up there will be the basis.

MPPT vs PWM

These are two different ways of controlling the charging. Generally speaking there isn't massive differences in output unless you look at only certain things. The biggest thing is PWM is limited when the batteries voltage is low and you lose watts. Second is when it is lower light, mppt uses higher voltages and continue producing at a reduced rate longer. On the flip side heat has a effect on voltage which is what drives MPPT so you can see a loss of a amp there. What ever you do, don't start your system plan by picking out the controller. That decision may limit you in the end.

Now I can see buying a controller on price but only if it will do what you need it too. The least expensive functioning MPPT controller that I know of is the Eco-worthy 20a MPPT for around $100. They do a good job but outside of a lcd screen and the ability to change the set points, it has no features like a temp sensor or equalization. Between that and the "good stuff" is the Blue sky, the Tracer line and a handful of untested ebay controllers. What you are looking for is the ability to handle the voltages and watts of the panels while having the settings and features you need.

Just because PWM controllers are less expensive than MPPT doesn't mean they are all cheap. You can spend very little and get a controller that the battery wires go here, the panel wires there, some blinky lights come on and that's it. No settings, no features, no probes and they seem to do well for some people. A nice PWM controller with all of the bells and whistles can set you back considerably.

So I know it is a pain but it would do you well to read up and understand what will have a affect on your system and why. You need to know what the charging setting your batteries need before picking a controller just like you need to know what fits on the roof before buying a panel.

I do agree that if you have a smaller system that an additional panel would do better for you than going MPPT for the money. Then again one of my 245 watt grid tie panels and a eco-worthy tracking the sun is good for a few hundred amp hours a day and is about as simple as it gets.

 

[1977dodge]

I have the Tracer CC with my 100 watt renogy panel
and it works well even here in overcast WA
on  dull days i get 18 volts from the panel and it has kept my truck battery 
in good order even after a 6 week vacation away

 

[akrvbob]

Here's my simple, straightforward opinion based on a lot of study and personal experience with my own systems and many other peoples systems:

1) Buy MPPT

2) Buy a quality American controller:

Blue Sky
Morningstar Tristar
Outback
Midnight Solar

I know people with all of the above and recommend them highly.

Based on my personal experience I recommend a Blue Sky MPPT.
Bob

 

[flying kurbmaster]

Thanks everybody for all the advice, I realize that the main American made brands have good reviews and are reliable, I also feel mppt is the way to go, with an equalizer, no matter what size of system, if money was no object. Unless you believe one youtube video that said that mppt,s don't travel that well so not as good for rv's.  I wonder, if  these things are like cell phones, I don't have to have an Iphone to have a good working smart phone and if all I want to do is call and text then an old school phone with a battery that doesn't need a charge for a week or two might be a better choice.  It seems to me that, all these controllers are, is a printed cirtcuit board connected to a heat absorbing alluminium thingy. My guess that all these boards are likely made in China even the so called American made controllers and likely assembled here. I am not sure but only a guess. So it would be interesting to hear from people who have bought these cheap controllers and have had issues or not had issues. I don't know many people who have issues with their cell phones no matter what brand or how many or few, bells and whistles they have on them. People mostly just complain about batteries, do mppt suck more juice then PWM,

 

[IGBT]

My go to controller right now would be a Midnite Kid.    Quality stuff from people who know their stuff.

I went with a Midnite Classic 150 because the Kid was borderline for my power levels (over 1000 watts of panels) but I wanted the Kid for compactness and low self consumption.

Just buy quality solar controller and skimp in other places, like 1 ply toilet paper. 

 

[AuricTech]

Another variable to consider is whether you already plan to install a TriMetric battery monitor.  If so, the combination of the TriMetric TM-2030-RV monitor and Bogart Engineering's SC-2030 PWM charge controller might suit your needs.  The two devices are designed to work together to increase efficiency.

Of course, your choice in PV panels also plays a role.  The "grid-tie" panels (which need an MPPT charge controller for efficiency) to which jimindenver alluded in his post are generally less expensive per rated Watt than are true 12V panels (the type that are suitable for use with a PWM charge controller), which are usually smaller (140W or smaller) than grid-tie panels.  For instance, over at Northern Arizona Wind & Sun, you can get a Kyocera KD255GX-LFB2 255W grid-tie PV panel for $240, and have more rated Watts than two Renogy 100W monocrystalline PV panels, that go for $149.99 each.  If you want to stick with the Kyocera brand, the price-per-Watt difference is staggering: that 255W grid-tie panel costs less than does a single Kyocera KD140GX-LFBS 140W polycrystalline PV panel (NAWS's price per panel: $275).

 

[flying kurbmaster]

So I am thinking this is what my system is going to look like, unfortunately it is going to cost a lot more then first anticipated but it is bigger and I don't have to do it all at once.
I debated between Morningstar but thought they look too much like toys so decided on the Blue Sky 3000i 30amp three stage plus equalizer, mppt controller, this controller can also trickle charge my starter battery, and an optional heat sensor can be added and it looks more industrial. Two unisol 68 watt panels which I have already purchased, I will add a 250 watt panel at a later date to the system to add up to 386 watts, I am planning on getting a pair of 6 volt batteries when my current 12 volt deep cycle battery dies or my starter battery dies. I am in no rush as I don't really need a lot of solar at this time, I was managing with a 40 watt mobile panel, to run my lights, fans, computer, tv but I want to run a fridge 24/7 without ice, a toaster?? and eventually hook up a converter big enough to charge power tool batteries.  I will also purchase the Trimetric battery monitor, at some time in the future before I get the new 6 volt battery pack. This is a couple year plan I will go ahead and buy the controller in the next month,( a day when I feel certain that this is the best choice, I still wonder if all I need is the Bluesky 30 amp pwm controller at half the price), then install the unisol panels as a start. This is my best thinking so far, I am tying to cover all my bases, future proof. 

 

[jimindenver]

Suggestion.

You will not be able to run those unisolars with a high voltage panel, even if you ran them in series with it. Unmatched voltages between panels will confuse a MPPT controller. You would be better off using a inexpensive PWM controller for the uni-solars and getting a controller to handle the 250w if and when you get it. A 20a MPPT will handle it with ease.

 

[MikeRuth]

Just an FYI, I purchased the Morningstar TS-45 PWM at about 150.00 BELIEVE me it's not a toy or cheap! If your into looks yeah then go with that one. I did not go MPPT as I never plan to run higher voltage panels. At a rating of 45 Amps with a cushion of 60 Amps the TS-45 will handle all I can ever squeeze on top of a van. Will you ever be able to put up enough panels to get a solid 45 amps out of them>?
Frankly the TS-45 indicates everything you need to know at a glance of the LED's. Want to know more, plug in your laptop and you can get data all you want.
I'm not trying to sell ya here, just want you to evaluate a product on what it will do for you. I know what Bob said and others, that's sound advice but there is nothing wrong with a PWM controller that works for the given situation.

 

[sushidog]

PMW is OK, especially if you angle your panels into the sun in the morning and afternoon. Higher voltage panels with a MPPT charger will produce more power from the same wattage panels laid flat on your roof by generating power an hour or so earlier in the morning and later in the afternoon than an equal wattage of lower voltage panels and a PMW controller will produce. Of course you could compensate for this lost charging time by simply adding more panels with the money you save. Life is a compromise. There is no "right way" to do it.

Chip

 

[flying kurbmaster]

Suggestion.

You will not be able to run those unisolars with a high voltage panel, even if you ran them  in series with it. Unmatched voltages between panels will confuse a MPPT controller. You would be better off using a inexpensive PWM controller for the uni-solars and getting a controller to handle the 250w if and when you get it. A 20a MPPT will handle it with ease.

just when you think you are out of the Maze wrong turn and back in it again..I thought I could wire them in series and they would work thanks for that bit of info.I was thinking about a 25 amp controller but the Bluesky one is a two stage and somewhere I read that a three stage is better or is it, that is why I ended up with the 30 amp.

 

[TucsonAZ]

I see almost no point in getting the 3000i when the Rogue 2024 is an option at the same price, better controller, better build quality, better support.

http://www.roguepowertech.com/products/chargecontrollers/mppt/mpt2024.htm

 

[flying kurbmaster]

I see almost no point in getting the 3000i when the Rogue 2024 is an option at the same price, better controller, better build quality, better support.

http://www.roguepowertech.com/products/chargecontrollers/mppt/mpt2024.htm

like I said, it is a MAZE , thanks for the info, however, this begs the questions?  What makes you think it is a better controller?  The Bluesky's build, is inferior in what way?  Have you had issues dealing with Bluesky or acquaintances with bad experiences. When the problem arose with your Rogue controller, what exactly happened to it to need support. thanks

 

[Matt71]

What's a good 40a charger?
Most of the ones mentioned are only 20a or 30a

I'll have three 210W 18V panels and I want to get as much juice from them as possible.

 

[akrvbob]

No doubt Rogue is a good controller, although you are the only person I know of who has one and I know many people who have the Blue Sky. I have two Blue Sky controllers and recommend them.

I have a friend with a Blue Sky and it burned out. He called them and they asked how it happened. He had gone over a 12,000 foot pass in Colorado in the fall when it was cold. Blue Sky told him that under those perfect conditions the panels had over-volted and went over the controllers ability.

They sent him a new, higher voltage controller that day, he had it the next day, and he boxed up and sent the old one back the day after. He didn't pay a penny.

Maybe Rogue has better customer service than that but I doubt it. My friend will only buy Blue Sky controllers.

The owner and chief engineer of Blue Sky goes to a solar dealer in Quartzsite every winter and puts on a seminar and will help any customer with any problem they have.

While I highly recommend them, I know there are many other very good brands and you will be happy with almost any of them.
Bob