The "Social Contract"

[free2enjoy]

It's my life and your life, not "society's" life.....society isn't a person

 

[Jeremiah Diminovich]

That's the problem with people today there going so far in debt try and to have the things there neighbors have trying to have the bigger better shiny stuff and are going in debt doing it they don't realize all that takes is to lose your job 1 time and not be able to make your payment and you lose everything Society is all about money and not freedom of choice

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[Van Man Dave]

People trying to rationalize

"I've got mine Jack, now you just f%#k off"

with a "logical philosophy" so they can pretend not to feel guilty about being selfish even evil

Care to elaborate more on this?   

:huh:

 

[Van Man Dave]

Debt to society is more along the lines of you were punished from breaking a law somewhere and you paid the debt by doing what ever the law required.  A fine or jail time etc.  I'll leave that one alone.   Social contract of course changes where ever you are in the world.  We don't have the same social contract as folks that live in the Middle East or Asia or Africa etc.  That is fine and I like the way I was taught living in this country.  I've been around the world and there are other places similar and places far different.  I choose to live here in this country so therefore I shall abide by the social contract required.  That said, I don't have to live in a town with neighbors on each side of me.  I can choose to live out in the great outdoors and stay as far away from "civilized" life as I want.  I prefer my aloneness and when I need social interaction with other humans I'll go into town and do just that.  I'm not shy.  I can strike up a conversation with anyone about anything.  Once I've had my fill of social interaction (think old folks at McDonalds in the morning drinking coffee talking about what ever subject comes to mind) I can return to my aloneness.  If I need a touch of the social contract yet don't want social interaction I can turn on the TV and watch the news or an interesting documentary.  I find it awesome that we can live in a society that caters to pretty much anyone that wants to live as they choose... just don't break the laws or that whole debt to society comes into play.

This is pure gold, thank you for sharing.

 

[Jeremiah Diminovich]

You're right people over social animals most of us need some kind of companionship somebody to talk to to judge your sanity by but at the same time most people are assholes I paint handled my way to Arizona because I'm broke until January 1st all my sign said was just need food and I had people spit at me throw stuff at me even had one person tell me if I was that hungry to eat one of my dogs so trying to find somebody you can talk to and sit around the campfire with sometimes seems a little hard me myself I have a social anxiety makes it hard to go meet people don't have a problem people showing up just have a problem getting out and going to meet people mostly because I get tired of people acting like assholes I am and you can burn just passed the rusty barrel you're more than welcome to come by for a cup of coffee or glass of tea and meet my dogs this is what I'm driving I'm easy to see from the road

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[tripper]

We all have obligations to our society, this society exists due to the very hard work of our predecessors. We all should be a part in making our society better for all involved. This means contributing in some way to make life better for all of us.

From the people that defend us, to the scientist and engineers who develop the modern conveniences we all rely on, the schools that taught us reading, writing and critical thought, just the easy to get food and water is even a huge benefit of our society, a luxury that most people in the world do not have.  We are a part of this society and owe a debt to it that can be repaid by improving it in some way. 

To choose to be a non contributor, to just leech off of the system, is the mark of a selfish person, and not deserving of the benefits of belonging to a society. 

Anyone not wishing to be a part of this society as a contributor, should immediately leave the confines of this society, to include the physical space protected by our society, and see how well they fare as a person of one.

BTW This doesn't mean that you can't contribute for a while then enjoy the fruits of your labor, as long as you have done enough to make our society a better one.

 

[John61CT]

Care to elaborate more on this?

Unfettered greed and selfishness, callously ignoring the needs of your fellow man is evil.

When the makers of "Wall Street" had Gekko say

"Greed is right. Greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit"

They were pointing out how evil it is that our society promotes and celebrates these sins.

Some people are so blind to the Light that they take the speech as the actual message, straight and unironic.

Rugged individualism as religion, as if everyone has the same chance to pull themselves up by their bootstraps.


“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”
― Ronald Wright

 

[Van Man Dave]

We all should be a part in making our society better for all involved. This means contributing in some way to make life better for all of us.

------- 

To choose to be a non contributor, to just leech off of the system, is the mark of a selfish person, and not deserving of the benefits of belonging to a society. 

-------


Very well said, thank you.

 

[Van Man Dave]

Unfettered greed and selfishness, callously ignoring the needs of your fellow man is evil.

When the makers of "Wall Street" had Gekko say

"Greed is right. Greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit"

They were pointing out how evil it is that our society promotes and celebrates these sins.

Some people are so blind to the Light that they take the speech as the actual message,  straight and unironic.

Rugged individualism as religion, as if everyone has the same chance to pull themselves up by their bootstraps.


“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”
 ― Ronald Wright

Excellent angle.  I wonder if greed is the root of all evil........

 

[Motrukdriver]

I wonder if greed is the root of all evil........

Greed is the evil that all other evils sprout from.

 

[geogentry]

 most of us need some kind of companionship somebody to talk to to judge your sanity by

But - I dont need or want anyone to judge my sanity.  Society says sane people work all their lives and then when they get old live in their bricks and sticks until they fall over dead.  Which means I am not sane because I have no intention of being "normal".

 

[Cammalu]

Jeremiah there is a dog park in Quartzsite. I'm sure you and your dogs could meet people there. We drove by there yesterday morning and there were quite a few people standing around jabbering with their dogs running and playing like a bunch of happy hooligans. It's on Plymouth Rd just about a block north of the Sheriff's department.


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[Cammalu]

Jeremiah we have to go check mail today in Ehrenberg. We will swing by your spot and say hello. We can stop by the store for you if you like. We have some pay back we need to do so what do you need? Do you have some way to cook? Got enough dog food till the end of the month? You will recognize us in this rig:

 

[lenny flank]

grow your own food.  weave your own clothes.  Build our own shelter.  s.  But yes the average person does not do well unless they experience some form of interpersonal relationship.

Go ahead and try that. Let us know how it works out for you. (shrug)

 

[lenny flank]

grow your own food.  weave your own clothes.  Build our own shelter. 

Go ahead and try that. Let us know how it works out for you. (shrug)

The "rugged independent individual" of mythology, simply does not exist, and never has. Anywhere. It is a fantasy. It's simply an ideological excuse to try to make 'selfish greed' into a social virtue.

 

[Van Man Dave]

Go ahead and try that. Let us know how it works out for you. (shrug)

The "rugged independent individual" of mythology, simply does not exist, and never has. Anywhere. It is a fantasy. It's simply an ideological excuse to try to make 'selfish greed' into a social virtue.

While I agree no man is an island, I would say that one striving to become a rugged independent individual is a very noble cause.

I am in no way supporting an ideology of selfish greed, although I do acknowledge it is definitely out there........

 

[lenny flank]

While I agree no man is an island, I would say that one striving to become a rugged independent individual is a very noble cause.

Perhaps, perhaps not. But still just a fantasy nevertheless. Humans are social animals. That is an inescapable fact of life.

 

[lenny flank]

Oops, sorry for that double post--my wifi here is kinda wonky.

 

[sushidog]

Unfettered greed and selfishness, callously ignoring the needs of your fellow man is evil.

When the makers of "Wall Street" had Gekko say

"Greed is right. Greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit"

They were pointing out how evil it is that our society promotes and celebrates these sins.

Some people are so blind to the Light that they take the speech as the actual message,  straight and unironic.

Rugged individualism as religion, as if everyone has the same chance to pull themselves up by their bootstraps.


“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”
 ― Ronald Wright

You should read "The Virtue of Selfishness" by Ayn Rand to get the opposing viewpoint. It's quite balancing. Of course she looks at the concept of "selfishness" quite differently than most of us do, as having virtue. She grew up under an oppressive communist regime, where she got to see its evils first hand, while we live in a more or less free country where we get to keep most of the fruits of our labors and not have almost everything we work for stolen by the government.

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Virtue_of_Selfishness

In a free country I believe that people all have the same chance to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, just not the same ability to do so. Some are born with an abundance of intellect, others not so much. Some are born healthy and strong while others are born infirmed and disabled. Some are born to a rich family while others are born to more modest surroundings, perhaps no family at all. All this affects our ability to achieve our goals. Life is not fair, and no one ever said it was. But in a free country we should fix the height of the brass ring and not move it up or down depending on one's height or jumping ability. However I believe it is our personal duty to each other - to drag up a milk crate, if you will, when we can, to give our vertically challenged brothers a better opportunity at the brass. Regardless, I believe, as Rand did, that the ultimate responsibility to care for ourselves falls on the individual and not government. Others believe that it is government's role to do this, under a mythical social contract (which I doubt anyone's ever seen, let alone read.)  I do not. The question is, "Are we our brother's keeper?" For me, I say individually, yes; and collectively, no. Others will disagree. Your mileage may vary.

Chip

 

[lenny flank]

And, as expected, this turns into yet another political debate. (yawn)