The "Social Contract"

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Van Man Dave said:
I've been thinking a lot about society and the "social contract".
Many people will say we are all obligated to fulfill certain obligations regarding our "debt to society".
Does anyone have any insight or beliefs into this subject they would like to share?
Would someone become a de-facto member of a society, merely based upon the location of their birth?
My position is that a society is a group of like minded people, wherein an individual has the right to choose wether to be a part of said society.  
If one chooses not to be a part of a society, should they also be relieved of the burden of this "contract"?
Click to expand...

So based on the material supplied here, what conclusions can we draw?
 
When i was in ehrenberg last winter, I was in pretty dire financial situation while i waited for my job to start. Whoever left spaghetti noodles and some can goods on that table, I thank you. Who ever left a seemingly new electric heater that im using right now, thank you too.

There was many useful items left at this table, and people took stuff and left stuff all the time. It wasn't just van people either (i was camped on the same 'plateau' as the table).

Every couple weeks, someone camped there would clean the table and take the stuff to the dump or goodwill. It wasn't the same person. I don't think the table was a problem trash wise, more likely the wreckage of whole trailers and piles of rubbish left behind in other places there.
 
rm.w/aview said:
So based on the material supplied here, what conclusions can we draw?
Click to expand...

Accept responsibility for your place in life. Try to be self-sufficient. Inconvenience yourself to be able to pay your own way, and then do that. Leave each stop in life better than you found it. Strive to be someone that society thrives because of, rather than in spite of. Be tolerant of others, and their imperfections. Life is full of imperfections; don't go thru life seeking ways to be a victim. Always be aware of ways to help others. Never say nasty things that don't really need to be said; think I should stop here.
 
free2enjoy said:
What a great way to put it!!

That's exactly right!

...Those that clearly know the most are the leaders...  

...punished for being a heretic as though the system is infallible...
Click to expand...
Free2Enjoy ...

Wow!  Great stuff!

I'm really enjoying this thread ... with a few minor exceptions, it seems to be staying pretty friendly, and the topic in my humble opinion isn't really politics or religion as much as it is a discussion of social paradigms.  So, I hope it stays up ... :)

Another point about late neolithic tribes is that, based on evidence, there was no discernible hierarchy.  No one stood out as chief or "leader".  It was a very egalitarian construct that lived in complete peace ... no evidence of war or murder.  Violence like the foregoing didn't show up until the first cities appeared in Mesopotamia.

I particularly like your heretic reference.  While a bit of a harsh term, I think it's pretty accurate.   Which leads me to my next bit of wind ...

There's a documentary out there, can't recall the name (We're Not Broke?), but it was made by the grandson of Johnson & Johnson.  When he saw the $$$ left to him, he asked himself, "Why do we need this much money?"  It was, in his mind, more than he could ever spend in several lifetimes.  When he asked his grandfather (Mr. Johnson Sr.) about it, he was for all intents and purposes, "punished".  He was ridiculed and chastised by his family for even asking the question.  What really struck me was, near the end of the documentary, his grandfather finally replied to the question, "Why don't we share some of the wealth with people?"  Mr. Johnson's answer was, "Because they won't work!"

Money has become the carrot by which we are led into the modern version of slavery.

I think, at least in the current "way of the world", that we are stuck with needing some level of money, but the philosophies surrounding this group and others like it are one way to minimize that need.
 
gsfish said:
Sounds awesome! I always thought I would love being a philosopher but bills and other obligations kept getting in the way.

Guy
Click to expand...

True enough!  

But vandwelling gives anyone doing it time to think...a lot...and in silence!

A few years ago, I turned off the TV and the music and lived alone.....I faced off with my thought traffic and reconciled a ton of issues deep within me.  I highly recommend it to anyone and everyone.   

And now, I don't want the TV or music on.   It's noise now.   What I do enjoy are youtube videos where I can learn something new like the ones many folks here post.  

Have you ever listened to Alan Watts?  I'm listening to this discourse now... 
 
VanLifeCrisis said:
When i was in ehrenberg last winter, I was in pretty dire financial situation while i waited for my job to start.   Whoever left spaghetti noodles and some can goods on that table, I thank you.   Who ever left a seemingly new electric heater that im using right now, thank you too.  

There was many useful items left at this table, and people took stuff and left stuff all the time.  It wasn't just van people either (i was camped on the same 'plateau' as the table).  

Every couple weeks, someone camped there would clean the table and take the stuff to the dump or goodwill.  It wasn't the same person.    I don't think the table was a problem trash wise, more likely the wreckage of whole trailers and piles of rubbish left behind in other places there.
Click to expand...

I would love to leave stuff on a table like that....for example, I have two PWM solar controllers I'm not going to use but I'm not going to throw away and it's not worth my time to post on ebay.  I would leave them on a table like that.
 
NoMadYesHappy said:
Free2Enjoy ...

Wow!  Great stuff!

I'm really enjoying this thread ... with a few minor exceptions, it seems to be staying pretty friendly, and the topic in my humble opinion isn't really politics or religion as much as it is a discussion of social paradigms.  So, I hope it stays up ... :)

Another point about late neolithic tribes is that, based on evidence, there was no discernible hierarchy.  No one stood out as chief or "leader".  It was a very egalitarian construct that lived in complete peace ... no evidence of war or murder.  Violence like the foregoing didn't show up until the first cities appeared in Mesopotamia.

I particularly like your heretic reference.  While a bit of a harsh term, I think it's pretty accurate.   Which leads me to my next bit of wind ...

There's a documentary out there, can't recall the name (We're Not Broke?), but it was made by the grandson of Johnson & Johnson.  When he saw the $$$ left to him, he asked himself, "Why do we need this much money?"  It was, in his mind, more than he could ever spend in several lifetimes.  When he asked his grandfather (Mr. Johnson Sr.) about it, he was for all intents and purposes, "punished".  He was ridiculed and chastised by his family for even asking the question.  What really struck me was, near the end of the documentary, his grandfather finally replied to the question, "Why don't we share some of the wealth with people?"  Mr. Johnson's answer was, "Because they won't work!"

Money has become the carrot by which we are led into the modern version of slavery.

I think, at least in the current "way of the world", that we are stuck with needing some level of money, but the philosophies surrounding this group and others like it are one way to minimize that need.
Click to expand...
I have a dream, but not the financial means, to visit truly creative people and help fund their projects that help humanity.  I would love to travel around and visit them, watch them do what they do best and then help them find a path to bring their expression to the marketplace.
 
free2enjoy said:
I would leave them on a table like that.
Click to expand...

Even if you are unsure about this table, there is a similar thing at the RTR that WILL be cleaned up at the end and donated (or dumped), so you can always do it there.   I got my current big blanket from there, and left my sleeping bag.   I got a 12v oven, and left a tomtom gps.  Lots of people want to unburden different things at different stages of their nomadic life, and others entering that stage may need it.
 
free2enjoy said:
I have a dream, ...
Click to expand...
I have a nightmare, it's called "work!"  LOL!
Soon ... soon, I will leap into the life of my ancient ancestors and "work" will become just another four letter word that I don't use!  :)
To be clear, I will share my skills (that's not work) and embrace the skills of others as I find need.  I would call that art <--- only three letters, and therefore safe to use!  Yep.  :D
 
John61CT said:
Frank Zappa reads from William Burroughs’ Naked Lunch
Click to expand...


And just last evening found myself searching youtube for several icons of my own
coming of age era:  Ram Dass & Timothy Leary.  Living in Hawaiian islands during
a period of the 1970s, Ram Dass a big part of the equation.  Be Here Now: always
wise.  Almost enough to get thru anything. 

Once had a friend, a hand book binder/printer with an old press who created a very
beautiful small edition of Naked Lunch.  Once had a copy, but after too long a gypsy
at that age, 'lost' the book to an old friends' library...

Thanks for the link, visually a bit gruesome for my delicate sensibilities---like Burroughs
himself, but enjoyed it nonetheless.

    Charlotte :rolleyes:
 
gsfish said:
"... I always thought I would love being a philosopher but bills and other obligations kept getting in the way."
Click to expand...



An old friend of mine managed it.  A poet/philosopher, he teaches philosophy 3 days a week at local
community college, lives in a charming, small cabin in the redwood forest that once was a large hen
house on an old apple farm near the ocean.  Rent:  $200 a month,  He's been doing this happily for
over three decades now.

:rolleyes: Charlotte
 
free2enjoy said:
"...years ago, I turned off the TV and the music and lived alone.....I faced off with my thought traffic and reconciled a ton of issues deep within me.   Have you ever listened to Alan Watts? "
Click to expand...



No TV in my life.  So quiet here in the woods I can hear the sound of birds' wings as they fly overhead.
Yes, Alan Watts!

Cheers,
:) Charlotte
 
rm.w/aview said:
So based on the material supplied here, what conclusions can we draw?
Click to expand...
I feel like I've gleaned some great insights into what the social contract means to different folks!  
I've always been a huge advocate of intentional communities and voluntary societies, while at the same time, been very disheartened by "society" at large. I find myself thinking about these things often and figure there is a balance to be struck between these ends of the spectrum, still trying to find that happy medium......
Thanks to everyone contributing to the thread. The civil expression of opinions here gives me great pleasure.  :D
 
free2enjoy said:
True enough!  

But vandwelling gives anyone doing it time to think...a lot...and in silence!

A few years ago, I turned off the TV and the music and lived alone.....I faced off with my thought traffic and reconciled a ton of issues deep within me.  I highly recommend it to anyone and everyone.   

And now, I don't want the TV or music on.   It's noise now.   What I do enjoy are youtube videos where I can learn something new like the ones many folks here post.  

Have you ever listened to Alan Watts?  I'm listening to this discourse now... 
Click to expand...


Love me some Alan Watts!
 
John61CT said:
I found this interesting

ACID BODHISATTVA: THE HISTORY OF THE TIMOTHY LEARY ARCHIVES DURING HIS PRISON AND EXILE YEARS, 1970-1976 (Part One)
http://www.timothylearyarchives.org/acid-bodhisattva/
Click to expand...



Interesting indeed!  I got to end of part 2 but was disappointed part 3 not yet available.  Spent better
part of late afternoon reading this & was enthralled.  I spent a good bit of time in SF/Berkeley during the
time period of these astounding events.  Reading this brought it all back.  Thanks very much for posting
this article.  All familiar: bookstores mentioned, North Beach & Telegraph Ave, even Sam Wo's chinese diner,
where I have myself enjoyed many fine meals upstairs with friends.  What an era that was.  Will say, tho, that
period at least had hope for a better world.    "Love is all we need"...bittersweet memories for me.

Charlotte
 
Reconstructed from a home movie pointed at an ITV screen

Dusty Springfield And Jimi Hendrix' duet performance of Mocking Bird



If you ever find a better version let me know
 
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