The "Social Contract"

[John61CT]

We are now as far away from those times

as they were from World War One.

 

[free2enjoy]

Interesting indeed!  I got to end of part 2 but was disappointed part 3 not yet available.  Spent better
part of late afternoon reading this & was enthralled.  I spent a good bit of time in SF/Berkeley during the
time period of these astounding events.  Reading this brought it all back.  Thanks very much for posting
this article.  All familiar: bookstores mentioned, North Beach & Telegraph Ave, even Sam Wo's chinese diner,
where I have myself enjoyed many fine meals upstairs with friends.  What an era that was.  Will say, tho, that
period at least had hope for a better world.    "Love is all we need"...bittersweet memories for me.

Charlotte

Charlotte,

Have you ever read Osho?

 

[John61CT]

American woman living in Sweden describes the 'socialist nanny-state' in a Twitter thread

 

[Dan 1]

Thank you for the invitation. Maybe We can visit with each other someday. I am proud of the way You have risen above human rudeness.

 

[Dan 1]

Excellent angle.  I wonder if greed is the root of all evil........

I don't think "greed" is the root of "All" evil. It is the "root" of greed evil...greed evil being one kind of evil. Greed does seem to be the most common kind of evil.


The kind of evil called "sadism" doesn't seem to be related to "greed".


The common motivation for all "evils" might be fear.

 

[LoveCareThinkDo]

Just one thing... If you "choose" to not "become" a member of a society, one that completely surrounds you, are you truly willing to give up ALL the benefits you derived from said society? Truly?

The society has made it possible for an auto mechanic to have a shop that doesn't get broken into every night. The society even made it possible for that mechanic or you to be able to get the parts to repair your van. Are you truly willing to walk naked out into the wilderness, with NOTHING that society has made possible? Not even a stick that you sharpened with a pocket knife (even if you then left the knife behind)? If not, then don't brag to us about "leaving society behind." 

Arguments like this are always, ALWAYS based on utterly ignoring all the good things we derive from being in a "society" and focus on the relatively few burdens they impose. They are usually "camel's nose in the tent" rhetorical devices designed to excuse someone for not caring for their fellow humans. And, humorously, they are rarely thought up by the person posting them. They are just the same old, lame arguments that have been recycled over and over again, regardless of how ludicrous they sound after careful examination.

 

[Dan 1]

While I agree no man is an island, I would say that one striving to become a rugged independent individual is a very noble cause.

I am in no way supporting an ideology of selfish greed, although I do acknowledge it is definitely out there........

I see the concept of "Self Reliance" as an Ideal; a personal goal of achievements and character building strengths, that can enable an Individual to become a valuable asset to the Human Species in general and to those one comes into contact with in particular. The more "Self Reliant" you have become the more You can teach "Willing and Potentially Capable Others" how to become more like this themselves. Then...the More that Others become stronger in these ways the Better The Tribe. The best Self Sufficiency includes Positive and Caring Thought Systems. Yes! A "very noble cause".

 

[Dan 1]

"But in a free country we should fix the height of the brass ring and not move it up or down depending on one's height or jumping ability." 

Hmmm. Interesting statement, this. Sure could use some more Thoughts regarding this.

 

[Dan 1]

What a great way to put it!! 

"[font=Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Sans-Serif]A city pretends to be a tribe.   A nation pretends to be a tribe.   A religion pretends to be a tribe.   A labor union pretends to be a tribe.  But none of them are because these systems are forced upon the children who get indoctrinated into the system and punished for being a heretic as though the system is infallible. "

This sharing and the whole comment that it came out of, I think is very interesting. It has never occurred to me that a city pretends to be a tribe. This is Good Meat to chew on I think. I think the essence of it, is in the difference between a tribe being more of a manageable Human bonding within a more "natural" phenomena, than the social construct of a "city" would be able to achieve. Kind of "artificially" to achieve...therefore the "pretending"...the imitation of the more natural living in "Tribal Life". Uh...still chewing here. Probably will for some time, as I struggle to get a comfortable grasp on this viewpoint. Hmmmm...maybe the differences between "Natural Law" and the "Human Social Law Systems" that have risen out of it?

Thank you very much, "free2enjoy". For this Thought provoking comment. [/font]

 

[Elbear1]

Just one thing... If you "choose" to not "become" a member of a society, one that completely surrounds you, are you truly willing to give up ALL the benefits you derived from said society? Truly?

The society has made it possible for an auto mechanic to have a shop that doesn't get broken into every night. The society even made it possible for that mechanic or you to be able to get the parts to repair your van. Are you truly willing to walk naked out into the wilderness, with NOTHING that society has made possible? Not even a stick that you sharpened with a pocket knife (even if you then left the knife behind)? If not, then don't brag to us about "leaving society behind." 

Arguments like this are always, ALWAYS based on utterly ignoring all the good things we derive from being in a "society" and focus on the relatively few burdens they impose. They are usually "camel's nose in the tent" rhetorical devices designed to excuse someone for not caring for their fellow humans. And, humorously, they are rarely thought up by the person posting them. They are just the same old, lame arguments that have been recycled over and over again, regardless of how ludicrous they sound after careful examination.

You take the good you take the bad and then you have....

Doesnt matter as the mechanic had no choice in the matter. hes not obliged to anything.

You dont go mowing some random persons lawn then take them to court for the bill. Thats called extortion.

 

[Dan 1]

Sounds awesome! I always thought I would love being a philosopher but bills and other obligations kept getting in the way.

Guy

I sorta think that the daily needs and their fulfillments, contributes to "healthier" philosophy.

 

[lenny flank]

Meh, the idea itself is silly. Humans are social animals. We evolved in social groups, and we can't live outside of social groups any more than a honeybee can.

Look around you. Everything you have, everything, was made and transported to you by somebody else. If someone dropped you in the woods with nothing but your naked ass and your instincts, you'd be dead within weeks.

 

[Dan 1]

So based on the material supplied here, what conclusions can we draw?

If We are part of a particular social construct, whether by birth, adoption, or personal choice, We are and should feel, obligated to do Our part to support the obligations that are inherent in the design of the social construct...except...where an Individual feels Morally compelled to not participate in some particular way...or in a general way, within the obligations that are called for.


If there is a Moral issue, then the challenged Individual has some choices: (1) Leave the society (2) Rebel, or revolt against the society (3) Try to teach the society to change its position regarding the Moral error (4) Some combination of the above, or (5) All of the above. There might be more choices that I do not see. All the options have their consequences.

 

[Dan 1]

Accept responsibility for your place in life. Etc.

Well Thought and said, "drysailor"  You seem to have a talent for positive and constructive summarization.

 

[Elbear1]

Meh, the idea itself is silly. Humans are social animals. We evolved in social groups, and we can't live outside of social groups any more than a honeybee can.

Look around you. Everything you have, everything, was made and transported to you by somebody else. If someone dropped you in the woods with nothing but your naked ass and your instincts, you'd be dead within weeks.

Be in the party or off to siberia for you. The mindset of a lifetime of fascist thought programming....

 

[Dan 1]

I think, at least in the current "way of the world", that we are stuck with needing some level of money, but the philosophies surrounding this group and others like it are one way to minimize that need.

Good insight in this astute comment, "NoMadYesHappy". It reveals one of the values that "Modern Nomadism" potentially offers Humanity. Yes. I too, sense the philosophy that is becoming in this group.

 

[Dan 1]

.....I faced off with my thought traffic and reconciled a ton of issues deep within me.  I highly recommend it to anyone and everyone.   

Ahhh...a wee. but important gift, for the developing "Modern Nomad Culture". A sharing of Good Method here. "Personal Introspection", not new, but such an opportunity and need, to revitalize it here. Well said and done, "free2enjoy"!

 

[Dan 1]

"...while at the same time, been very disheartened by "society" at large. I find myself thinking about these things often and figure there is a balance to be struck between these ends of the spectrum, still trying to find that happy medium......
Thanks to everyone contributing to the thread. The civil expression of opinions here gives me great pleasure.  "

Yes. "Society At Large", as in too large...as in unwieldy...as in "loss of whatever Balance is achieved in it. "Balance" is one of the vital keys that, I think, will be found in the vast Middle Of Humanity.

 

[WalkaboutTed]

I pay taxes and gave birth to four taxpayers. My job is done.
Ted

 

[lenny flank]

I like taxes. Taxes pay for "civilization", and I like "civilization".