The Install, Chapter One, Batteries

[Zizzer_Zazzer_Zuz]

It is time for the installation of my PV system and I need to acquire the last bits and pieces. I'm hoping that you fine people can help out.

I have what I have. I'm not about to argue over replacing something unless it will save me money NOW or is somehow a fire hazard. I do want to plan for possible growth of the system.

There is a good chance that another forum member will be coming over later this week to work on both of our rigs. In this thread I will be asking specific questions about my install and general questions about relatively standard parts and pieces and tools.  Please forgive any confusion this may cause. 

So, here goes.

Chapter One
Batteries
In which we find our protagonist contemplating storage of the magical blue smoke.

I have 2 6v Duracell SLIGC115's. In series they will provide 230Ah at 12v. Spec sheet can be found on the link below.

https://www.batteriesplus.com/productdetails/sligc115

The first thing to do, working from the batteries up will be to connect them in series. For this I will need heavy cable, good lugs of some sort, and the required tools. This is a close up of the terminals. I believe I want the jumper attached to the largest posts via a lug. The smaller post is for ring terminals going to the various larger power consuming components.



Any suggestions for cable and cable ends to connect the serial jumper cable?

As for the other cables that will be required I intend to purchase the wire in bulk, order the required crimp tool, and good quality wire ends.  

This tool will do everything to 2/0. The serial cable is likely to be 4/0 or even 6/0 if possible. Thoughts? Suggestions? There is another thread about these tools and I'm going to go review it now.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0114QC3OY/ref=ox_sc_act_title_4?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3O4LZF7PHWTGN

So, we reach the end of Chapter One. Will our hero make his 6v batteries into a 12v battery bank? Will he order the right tools and cable ends? Stay tuned for more.

 

[Zizzer_Zazzer_Zuz]

Sub question #1: Orientation


The serial jumper should be very heavy and the ends of that cables need to be substantial.  The length of that cable is also of great importance especially considering the importance of it. There are three orientations that I can place the batteries, one puts the closest + and - posts at 5, 7 and 8 inches apart. How much does it matter? Is it worth making this a design requirement for the rig?

#1


#2


#3

 

[Zizzer_Zazzer_Zuz]

Sub question #2


The batteries have sat since purchase, about a month. I would like to set them to charge before I install them. I have a Battery Tender Plus battery charger and I am wondering if this model will charge a 6v battery. And if these are too big?

............

Answered my own question.

battery Tender Plus is 12v only and good up to 200Ah. Even with the jumper in place they would be too large to charge via this small charger.

 

[Zizzer_Zazzer_Zuz]

Sub Question #3

I'm going to need some battery maintenance tools. Aside from a hydrometer, a basic multimeter, and funnel to pour distilled water is there anything else I really need for the basic care and feeding of a flooded lead acid battery?

This was recommended in another thread. I like the price point and I'm fine with analog readings. I would rather spend less on a decent but not fancy tool than more on a fancy digital tool that is accurate to .009 bajillions of a parsec. Basic. Quality. Simple.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0050SFVHO/ref=ox_sc_act_title_5?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

 

[highdesertranger]

first don't buy that crimper until a bunch of us have chimed in. those Chinese crimpers give less then satisfactory results unless you really know what you are doing. also the dies might have to be modified to get a good crimp. if it was me and I was inexperienced at crimping I would get the cables premade from a reputable company like these guys, http://www.genuinedealz.com/ .

get those batteries on a charger ASAP. put some kind of jumper on them and you can charge them with a 12v charger. if all you have is that small charger get it on.

for filling with water I use an irrigation syringe. go to a full service feed store, one that has stuff for horses get a good size one. I find this easier and less messy then a funnel. highdesertranger

 

[Zizzer_Zazzer_Zuz]

first don't buy that crimper until a bunch of us have chimed in.  those Chinese crimpers give less then satisfactory results unless you really know what you are doing.  also the dies might have to be modified to get a good crimp.  if it was me and I was inexperienced at crimping I would get the cables premade from a reputable company like these guys,  http://www.genuinedealz.com/ .

get those batteries on a charger ASAP.  put some kind of jumper on them and you can charge them with a 12v charger.  if all you have is that small charger get it on.

for filling with water I use an irrigation syringe.  go to a full service feed store,  one that has stuff for horses  get a good size one.  I find this easier and less messy then a funnel.  highdesertranger

I am not buying anything else until it's mostly vetted.

Part of my budget for the solar was tools and some materials to learn to use them. I don't want to brake the bank but I also need something much nicer than a project throw away tool.  Recommendations on products and or tutorials preferably video are very much appreciated. I am still looking for that other thread and having no luck.

Clever about the syringe. Aside from making sure the plates are covered do i need to measure the depth? Any opinion on the hydrometer or the need for it? I sort of like the nerdyness of testing my batteries like that though, to be honest. 

As for getting the batteries on the charger, I have several pre-made 4awg cables with ring ends. Those are the largest I have on hand. They are 6-7 feet long. Will these be suitable to run between the bolt posts. Any particular order they should be connected? pos to pos neg to neg then negative from the charger to negative and positive to positive.

 

[user 37446]

You should be getting more well informed replies to your questions soon. The only immediate comment I have is to make sure the power coming into your batteries and the draw out need to be balanced, meaning don't use just one of the batteries to attach both the + and the - to, as that battery will be taking the brunt of the load and the other will loaf. That's not good for the pair.  (I hope I got that right!)
 I'll see if I can find the link about that or the actual write up from the link.

From: atbatt.com

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]HOW TO WIRE 6V BATTERIES IN SERIES OR PARALLEL CONFIGURATION[/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][img=200x133]http://cdnl.atbatt.com/media/wysiwyg/rv/6_6v-Trojan-T105-wired-in-series-300x199.jpg[/img]
[font=Verdana, Georgia, Times, 'Times New Roman', serif]How do you create a multi-bank battery system for an RV, boat or other application? It’s rather simple but it requires you to know how to wire 6V batteries in series or parallel configuration.[/font]
[font=Verdana, Georgia, Times, 'Times New Roman', serif]There are several reasons why you may want to configure multiple batteries together; whether it be for cost savings, efficiency or increasing voltage or capacity. There are basically two ways to configure multiple battery systems, in Series or in Parallel. There is also a Series/Parallel combination as well. This article will help you to wire 6 volt batteries.[/font][/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]WIRING BATTERIES IN A SERIES[/font]
[font=Verdana, Georgia, Times, 'Times New Roman', serif]In a Series Configuration the batteries are wired per the diagram below and the result would be a doubling of the voltage while the capacity remains the same. In our illustration we show two 6V batteries with 225AH wired together. The result would be a battery bank that produces 12V and 225AH.[/font]
[img=510x247]http://cdnl.atbatt.com/media/wysiwyg/rv/6v-series-wiring-600x291.jpg[/img][font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]WIRING BATTERIES IN PARALLEL[/font]

 

[rvpopeye]

Connect pos on battery 1 to neg on battery 2 with one of the cables you have and connect the charger to battery 1 neg and battery 2 pos.

I use an empty dish detergent bottle with distilled water with pretty good results . You will even get so you can do it without spilling any.The price can't be beat either.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

I recommend the use of military battery terminals on both batteries, then attach wires with ring terminals as needed.

Take a look at:

http://custombatterycables.com/index.htm

He will make great wires, but if you really want to make your own, he sells wire and ring terminals in more sizes than I've seen anywhere else.

In particular, read his Technical Info And Other Useful Stuff.  Very informative.

 

[AbuelaLoca]

By George, I think *I'm* starting to get some of this!! This forum rocks!!

 

[tx2sturgis]

By George, I think *I'm* starting to get some of this!! This forum rocks!!

Now, dont go stroking any egos around here...lord knows most of us dont need any more of that!

 

[tx2sturgis]

I agree with HDR, get those batteries on whatever maintenance charger you have available. All common lead acid batteries tend to self-discharge as they sit un-used.

Another issue not mentioned, is that IF they have been sitting, un-moved, on a cold concrete floor or even a wooden shelf in the garage, the electrolyte can 'stratify'...so its always a good idea to tip each battery up a few times and let it drop a half inch to dislodge any bubbles on the plates and stir up the electrolyte.

Most likely your charger does not have de-sulfation or equalization modes, so a physical 'agitation' of these flooded batteries is a good idea.

If you have been moving them around and carrying them place to place for this project, then that is all the movement needed.

And yes, the jumper needs to go from the + on one battery to the - on the other, then you have a true 12v battery pack and it can be treated as such for charging purposes. Any good truck parts house or truck shop should have a good cable that will work to connect the batteries, this is commonly done in the commercial vehicle world to connect multiple batteries.

 

[galladanb]

I agree with HDR also. I bought my Batteries in January and they sat until March.
I did not know they died on their own. So I used my crappy garage charger and brought them up safely.

On the cables... 2/0 is huge and tuff to work with. PERIOD. That is the largest I went with.
I would encourage you to buy your cables, not make them. There are countless horror stories out there about
why you should not make them. The guys at GenuineDealz are fabulous, and even offered to allow me to return cables
for a very small fee, even when it was my fault for getting the wrong size terminal ends.
They also offered to allow me to send the cables back and they would put new ends on them for me,
as long as I paid for the new ends, no labor charges.

I ended up using them anyway, and all is well! REALLY!!!!!! The 3/8 ends will be very usable on the 5/16 posts, no worries!
(Well some in here will argue about that,, but trust me, just do it and move on...)

I placed my batteries end for end, very much like your #3 above. That works for me!

FYI,
The fuse blocks for the ANL fuses are 3/8 while most of the other terminals are 5/16.
The 3/8 ones are sloppy on 5/16, but the 5/16 can be drilled out slightly to fit 3/8, (Again, there are other opinions available!)

Getting the correct size ANL fuses can be tricky, and most are about 13 bucks...

The Renogy kits come with the correct sized fuses for the kit you select. (A VERY GOOD SYSTEM AND THE BEST WAY TO GO!!!)

Those batteries are awesumm!

BUY THE Correct cable lengths, do not make them...

Don't worry, be HAPPY!!! Good luck with your build out!

SUCH FUN!!!

 

[galladanb]

OH, and I also bought the hydrometer mentioned. I actually bought two.
The first one arrived and I placed it in my upcoming project box with out looking at it.

When I went to use it, it was broken. Shipping error? Or my clumsy storage system? Whatever...

I used it once so far, and will try again later in the month.
My 12v system is sitting a lot while I try to finish up the walls and insulation work...

 

[Zizzer_Zazzer_Zuz]

By George, I think *I'm* starting to get some of this!! This forum rocks!!

I feel like I'm *THIS* close.

By experimenting with some small pieces and getting my feet wet perhaps I am know ready to tackle my larger system and with some help get Cory350 built out too.

Thanks all. It's suddenly pouring down rain so I have to go check for leaks!

I will do the things. I will consider options, both long and short term.

... tune in later for a moist update from our entrepid hero!

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

[Zizzer_Zazzer_Zuz]

Addendum:In which we learn that water and electricity don't mix and the importance of pressure


And now, for your listening enjoyment, a musical interlude.



The leaks that were leaking are still leaking. The ones I sealed are no longer leaking. I have found The Big Nasty and will seal it when the weather clears. I did gather my tools and necessary stuffs about me and did make images.

 

I hefted and jostled the batteries to a sturdy work table and did the needful. The red cable is 7 feet long with serendipitously the correct ring wire ends. That is also a 150A fuse tucked back there between the boxes that contain the magical blue smoke.

No blue smoke was lost yet in this expedition as great care has been taken.

I tested the boxes with my Freebie Gadget Of Testing +1 and the boxes seemed happy enough but wanting.



Working with great care, and possibly making an unseen Savings Throw, I attached the leads from the tester so as to be held in place by the clamps of the Battery Tender and found that the simple act of making a better connection I could would allow the tester, lowly as it is to read more accurately. This drives home the notion that ring terminals need to be of good quality and attached with sufficient pressure.



I have recently checked on the pair and they are now reading 12.95v just touching leads to the terminals and the green light on the battery tender is blinking which means ... sneaks away to look at front of battery Tender ... that they are at 80% charge, or that bulk has been achieved and they are now heading in to absorption. Now the wait begins.

A jumper cable will be special ordered this evening. I will peruse the custom cable web sites and buy a professionally made cable after I check some specifics and see if any of the other oracles chime in with more pearls of wisdom on this subject. A basic hydrometer is being summoned from The Amazon and I have a large unused turkey basting syringe that I can use for adding water. 

As for the batteries, this may be end of their particular novelty as it is time I believe to move on to other perhaps more perilous endeavors.

 

[Zizzer_Zazzer_Zuz]

I recommend the use of military battery terminals on both batteries, then attach wires with ring terminals as needed.

Take a look at:

http://custombatterycables.com/index.htm

He will make great wires, but if you really want to make your own, he sells wire and ring terminals in more sizes than I've seen anywhere else.

In particular, read his Technical Info And Other Useful Stuff.  Very informative.

I have both posts and a bolt terminal for + and - on both batteries. I was considering a jumper from post to post and then using the threaded terminals for attaching primary wires. 

This is what is on my starters. I would think something like this would be ideal.



The house batteries have that same sort of post as well as a ring terminal and I imagine that what would be ideal is a 10-12 inch 2/0 wire connecting those larger posts. I suppose a precise measurement could be calculated.



I see the futility in considering properly cutting and crimping 2/0 ... hell, I don't think I want to work 2awg! I think that I can handle 4awg and thinner. A lot of what I want to do is going to be cut to length 10, 12, and 14 awg. Attaching mostly ring terminals and splices. 

I am going to contact both http://custombatterycables.com and http://www.genuinedealz.com to see what they have to say.

 

[Zizzer_Zazzer_Zuz]

So far genuinedeals.com is the winner. They have a simple point and click cable builder and I get what I want for less than $20 including free shipping. custombatterycables.com sells a similar build with fewer choices for the wire ends for $27 and that does not include shipping.


I'm ready to place the order for one of these. I'm leaning toward the L ends.





I have ordered the hydrometer.

The 6v's are still charging. They read 14.01v at the terminals where the charger is clamped on. when testing the unused posts they test at 13.97v. That poor little charger is working hard. I slid some rubber spacers below it to raise it off the table for better air circulation. All of the wires are still cool so I'm not overly concerned. I see no reason to change or move them until later this week.

 

[BradKW]

I have the crimper you linked and posted a review of it here somewhere, including pics of lugs I cut open to inspect the "cold weld", and I highly recommend them. Used "properly" you will get a professional quality crimp every time...but the word "properly" has little to do with following the Chinese instructions. They are simple and easy to use and saved me a lot of money and frustration.

Much of the time and money savings came from the size and complexity of my system, and that I just couldn't handle figuring out all the cable and fitting lengths/orientations ahead of time. If I had been able to do that, the cable vendor you're looking at would have been a nice way to go.

Just pick up a cheap jumper/cable at the car store to get those batteries charging in 12v ...I had to do this with mine, rotating 3 sets every weekend for months till I had my solar up and running...

 

[Zizzer_Zazzer_Zuz]

Low! The angry amber light of charging has been extinguished and the emerald light of storage doth burn with a bright and steady fire. Yay! Even the internal mechanations have subsided and The Tender od Baterries is now warm with the work of tending the magical blue smoke.

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