Suffering a severe case of analysis paralysis on bus purchase

[Vanalist]

Hello,
Currently suffering a severe case of analysis paralysis. I’ve been thinking of living in an RV full time with my wife (no kids yet) for like 3 years and I think we’re finally going to take the plunge . At first, we were going for high tops cargo vans conversion like the transit or the promaster. Due to the lower cost AND space I started looking into the e350 bus platforms. I was looking for that famous 7.3 diesel under 100k but I didn’t find nearby at a good price. Might be a blessing as I possibly found a better deal. I found a vehicle that was owned by the DMV for around 20 years. Its an E350 bus with gas engine. The mileage is incredibly low less than 30k and carfax records confirm this (not sure how much to trust carfax). I scheduled a viewing with the owner on the only day off I had. Unfortunately, I was unable to test drive it due to a flatbed truck that was not in working order blocking the garage exit. This new owner has had the vehicle for less than a year and a half and only put a couple thousand miles on it. I was able to hear the engine running and it sounds very smooth with no ticks or weird noises. Exhaust shows no signs of engine problems. I checked for rusk in the undercarriage and did not find any extensive damage. I found some rust but considering the age of the vehicle it is very minimal. I already schedule an appointment with a mechanic on Thursday to inspect the vehicle by then the flatbed will be moved out. The owner seems legit, I met him at his family’s party rental business and then he took me to the garage where they had equipment for other businesses. Obviously, this is no guarantee, but it put me at ease as the story makes sense as to why they acquired the vehicle and why they are getting rid of it.

Im going be a bit ambiguous because I’m a little afraid someone could steal the deal from me (i know highly unlikel)

E-350 cutaway
1992-1997 
less than 30k miles
gas engine 5.8L
23' bus

Interior dimensions
90” width
190” from back of bus to the back of the driver side seat
73” interior height in the passenger area, about 79” at the front by the driver area.

Link below to a similar age bus with similar shell, although it might be slightly longer than my find. 
1994 Used Ford Econoline RV Cutaway RV Cutaway 176" WB DRW at Michael's Motor Company Serving Nashville, TN, IID 18046049

1-If you were in my shoes and wanted to convert a bus to RV for full time living, would you consider the bus I found? 

2-What are some must haves when selecting a bus platform to convert (not taking into account vehicle mechanical issues ie engine, transmission problems, etc. )

3-What mechanical issues should I be aware for the e350 platform?

4-Anything you would like to share that can make my life easier? 

5-What would you pay for a bus with these specs?

Thanks in advance!

 

[bullfrog]

One thing to think about is how much different is this bus from a Class C chassis ? What makes it better than a box truck with the same chassis? Tioga George on his web site is building out a box truck you might take a look at some advantages and disadvantages. As I see it I would rather have something easier to deal with mechanically as sitting isn't very good for vehicles and things like cooling system seals and hoses may soon need replacement. Has the break system been checked and flushed over the years? A short bus was just on this site that was already started for $4,000 I believe yet he had a difficult time trading it when it didn't meet his needs. Usually I have problems deciding what to do when I don't have enough information, experience or skills. I would see if I could find someone on the fourm or at the RTR who has done this type of build out on that kind of vehicle. Really good deals usually go really bad if rushed into. Make sure you have plenty of room in the budget for maintenance and the build. It may cost more if you wait to make sure your goals are obtainable but you will be more likely to succeed by spending more money if you don't have the knowledge and skills.

 

[Cammalu]

Are you planning to boondock all the time or do you think you might want to use RV parks?

State parks will be ok but you’ll likely find time limits.

Quite a few RV parks might not allow your bus.


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[Vanalist]

One thing to think about is how much different is this bus from a Class C chassis ?  What makes it better than a box truck with the same chassis?   Tioga George on his web site is building out a box truck you might take a look at some advantages and disadvantages.  As I see it I would rather  have something easier to deal with mechanically as sitting isn't very good for vehicles and things like cooling system seals and hoses may soon need replacement.  Has the break system been checked and flushed over the years?  A short bus was just on this site that was already started for $4,000 I believe yet he had a difficult time trading it when it didn't meet his needs.  Usually I have problems deciding what to do when I don't have enough information, experience or skills.  I would see if I could find someone on the fourm or at the RTR who has done this type of build out on that kind of vehicle.  Really good deals usually go really bad if rushed into.  Make sure you have plenty of room in the budget for maintenance and the build.  It may cost more if you wait to make sure your goals are obtainable but you will be more likely to succeed by spending more money if you don't have the knowledge and skills.

The bus was owned by the DMV and I can see it was maintained regularly, the carfax has all the maintenance history. I thought about the box truck but haven't found a good deal. I just recently started looking about 2 months ago. My car was totaled while sitting in a parking lot and the insurance totaled the vehicle so I have a nice check waiting be cashed and start building this thing. 

The main reason im looking at the bus is that it has 11k and its $4k. Im thinking I can convert it with 10k and would end up with a solid RV. Some people are mentioning that it may be hard to change the designation to RV but I haven't found anything corroborating this. If I had found the same platform in box truck I would totally be jumping on that as I prefer the low floors. The floor on the bus is way up in comparison.  any further help would be appreciated, thanks!

 

[Vanalist]

Are you planning to boondock all the time or do you think you might want to use RV parks?  

State parks will be ok but you’ll likely find time limits.

Quite a few RV parks might not allow your bus.


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Planning on mostly boon docking. Would the time limits apply if I change the designation to RV?

 

[Cammalu]

It’s not that they would check your registration. They can just look and see what it is.

If you plan to boondock no matter.

 

[bullfrog]

Boondocking you shouldn't have any problems other than if you get stuck. The school bus/bus conversion is a popular choice but can be labor intensive as insulation and filling in windows or rasing the roof are all usually desired. I like many started doing one once, pulled all the interior panels, removed and closed off most of the window openings, and started to build in a wood stove so I could heat it and continue to build in the cold weather but a friend of mine offered me more than I paid for it and it needed 6 new tires which was several hundred dollars more than I had. He used it to move across country and sold it for what he had into it so we both came out ahead. Bottom line is it is a lot of work and a lot of these don't get finished and sold for a loss. Not much need for used buses as the person you are buying from knows as well as they are expensive to maintain. I am biased against van type vehicles as I never liked making my body bend ways it shouldn't while working on one, by the way I was many years ago an ASE Master Bus and Heavy Truck mechanic in a school dristrict garage. If I were to go the bus conversion route I would be looking for a conventional shortened bus with a DT466 engine and an Allison transmission with air brakes. I believe one of the members has one that will be attending the RTR. The Freightliners were the first with the sloped hood which is much easier to see out of when driving. The biggest problem is head room if you are taller, second the price of tires and third insurance and the state rules conserning converting a bus to private use. A Class C RV is easy to license and insure, it has the same basic chassis as the bus (which as I said I don't like because in my opinion are over loaded and therefore high maintenance) has all the RV stuff so you can live in it and change out for better opions as they break and most a poorly constructed box to live in (plus a big window in front that will eventually leak). The best Class C motorhome is the one built on a one ton pickup truck style chassis in my opinion. So what would I suggest? Take a look at the one ton trucks with home built boxes on flat beds or campers built on to them. It takes the same skills to do a complex build out on a bus as it does to build a custom camper on a truck chassis which is cheaper to maintain. If it does not work out at least you have a good truck to pull a trailer with! Sorry for the long post.

 

[squire]

Bus or box truck, make sure you know the insurance and licenses ramifications in your state.

 

[Doubleone]

I’ll preface this is my advice, same as I’d offer to my sons or any close friends.  Sure you can convert a bus for you and a partner, but I wouldn’t do it, especially if a family is in the future.  A build like this can really stress a relationship and budget.  That said, if you and your partner are both in agreement and wholly committed to convert a bus from scratch, then I say go for it!

1- I probably wouldn't convert a bus; for two people I'd start with a used class C.  However, the bus you described seems workable.  A lot of parks refuse converted buses, and a class C will be easier to sell.  Converted buses are a niche market.

2 - You’re starting with a bus and nothing related to a house.  You’ll need money, parts, time, and energy.  You’ll need a place to work, tools, and skills to use them.  It’s one thing to watch a youtube video, its wholly another thing to actually buy and use tools in real life to get good results.  Know your capabilities; pay others for their skills when needed.

3-  I have a 1997 E350 6.8l, and the upside of modular V6/V8/V10's is they share a lot of the same parts.  They are prone to stripping spark plug threads.  It's not a tragic deal because they can be repaired fairly easy with a Thread-Sert, but it might delay a trip.  It happens because Ford only has 4 threads in the cylinder head and mechanics tend to over tighten sparkplugs.  Factory sparkplugs are long-life and  usually good up to 50-60k, then I'd replace plugs and ignition coils at the same time.  On my rig just about every rubber vacuum hose was cracked and crumbling into chalk.  I had to replace every bit of rubber, and I mean everything from front to back including the fuel filler hose.  Only use name-brand fuel compatible hose (cheap parts store stuff won't last). Windshield wipers have a small computer control under the dash that sometimes goes out and cause wipers to run continuously.  It’s a cheap and easy fix if you have a self-service junkyard to get the part; vans and many cars use the same module with various numbers.  Ford I-beam steering is notorious for looseness and a ‘can’t find center’ feel.  Some of that is inherent in the design, but more often it's worn suspension parts and bushings.  Look at the ball joint dust boots and if they're torn, they need replaced.  The tie rod at the steering box is prone to wear. The steering column shaft under the dash has two hidden joints that can get sloppy.  Late 1997 has the good transmission with redesigned pump and center carrier bearing, early 1997’s have a less durable older generation, only a trans guy can tell you which is which. Rebuilders usually update the trans parts.  At 30k, I'd change the trans fluid immediately, and every 25-30k depending on severity of use. Factory trans pan gaskets are reusable.

4- My best advice…. is to start with a used late 90's class C and fix it up.  There are plenty of parts and repair manuals for all the appliances and the rig itself.  If you do build a bus, I’d suggest to consider finding a cheap late 90s travel trailer (ugly, wrecked, or water damaged) and dismantle it to reuse the fixtures and appliances (stove, fridge, toilet, sink, AC, furnace, windows, dinette, lights, power converter, etc.).  It’s amazing how little bits and things for a bus build add up to big dollars, like appliances, fixtures, windows, electrical wiring, power inverter, water tanks, water heater, furnace, AC, plumbing, generator, brackets, fittings, bolts, on and on.  Heck, going to the hardware store just for a handful of bolts is $20 each time…   $300-$800 spent on a junked trailer could put you dollars ahead in the end.  You might even be able to sell the bare frame to another maker to offset your costs.  Since you are the architect/builder, you will need to carefully consider health and safety (Propane detector, CO detector, smoke detector, adequate ventilation, safe plumbing and wiring, etc.).   I’m sure you’d agree that our partners are the most important thing in our lives…  So if you build your dream bus, make it safe and comfortable, and always keep your partner's health and comfort in mind.     

5- You can buy half-decent class C for $4-10k and the house is already built, including all the small stuff that nickels and dimes you to death.  It would dramatically shorten your timeline.  You have a very workable budget in mind.  Consider you could put the extra monies into making a class C RV super reliable and something really special.

Lot's of helpful knowledgeable people here to help.  Just promise, you'll update and post some pics whichever way you choose to go...

 

[Firebuild]

I have a 1991 7.3L Diesel short bus made by Lewis on an E350 chassis. Not sure what you'd consider a good price, but I got mine for $3000. I know nothing about any other models, or about any of the gas engines, but the one you're describing sounds like a great layout. It's both longer and wider than mine, which is 20 feet and 78" at its widest point, though not at the floor, which is only 72." Still, I feel like I have plenty of room. Then again, there's only one of me.

Here is the standard list of CONS for bus ownership, which pretty much echoes a lot of what people have already said.

1) Some RV parks won't allow you in.
2) Pretty tough to go stealth (though the same is true for RVs and a van or box truck works better if this is an issue)
3) Insurance. There are less and less places to get insurance for a bus conversion.
4) You have to do a lot more work because you are creating that living space instead of purchasing a vehicle already set up with it.
5) Depending on what state you live in, registration can be complex as well.

That said, I personally would NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS have bought an RV over a bus. I know this is primarily an RVer site, so you are going to get certain advice here. Go to a skoolie-oriented forum, and what you'll hear will be different. My own observation, which is admittedly highly anecdotal, is that RV people and bus people aren't really the same people.

Here are my reasons for choosing a bus. Even if only #1 were true, I think I'd still have picked a bus.

1) Though it's touted as a plus, I really am not into the idea that "The house is already built." I don't like the boxy layout I see in most RVs, and the only way I'd live in one is if I got to gut it and build it as my own. I don't view the vehicle as a box to travel around in, so the aesthetics of it are important to me, and my own aesthetics are not remotely those of the RV industry. I LOVE driving my bus. I love looking at it. I love hanging out in it. It is set up exactly the way I want it to be, and I don't think I've ever seen another one quite like it. I'm sure lots of people hate what I've done with it, but hey, it's not their bus. The opportunity to fully customize is a big part of the draw for bus ownership. If that's not something you care about, then yeah, you could probably get an RV instead.
2) Safety. Any school bus newer than about 1980 conforms to pretty rigid standards. Studies have proven that school buses are the safest vehicles on the road, and are designed to distribute crash impact very differently than other vehicles. I don't want all the RV folks to get mad at me, but I have done my homework on this. Why, then, is it so hard to get insurance? Skoolies don't have an industry behind them like RVs do, lobbying insurance companies to be sure owners can get covered. There is no evidence whatsoever that DIY conversions cause or are involved in more accidents. Yes, there are dopes who do it wrong. Just don't be one of them, and your family is far safer in a bus.
3) Space. Foot for foot, you get more usable space out of a bus conversion, and you can decide how that space is allocated.
4) Anyplace that's snobby enough not to let me in with my bus is not a place I want to stay anyway.
5) It's easier to get tires, mechanical services, etc. with a short bus (not true for a full size bus) than it is for an RV, and easier for gas than for diesel, as I have discovered with my diesel.

If you want advice on the bus from bus people, there's a forum for that. I can't post the link because I'm new here and the rules suggest not posting links for a while, but it's easy to find if you search for school bus conversion forums.

Good luck, whatever you choose!

 

[Cinj]

I have a 1991 7.3L Diesel short bus made by Lewis on an E350 chassis. Not sure what you'd consider a good price, but I got mine for $3000. I know nothing about any other models, or about any of the gas engines, but the one you're describing sounds like a great layout. It's both longer and wider than mine, which is 20 feet and 78" at its widest point, though not at the floor, which is only 72." Still, I feel like I have plenty of room. Then again, there's only one of me.

Here is the standard list of CONS for bus ownership, which pretty much echoes a lot of what people have already said.

1) Some RV parks won't allow you in.
2) Pretty tough to go stealth (though the same is true for RVs and a van or box truck works better if this is an issue)
3) Insurance. There are less and less places to get insurance for a bus conversion.
4) You have to do a lot more work because you are creating that living space instead of purchasing a vehicle already set up with it.
5) Depending on what state you live in, registration can be complex as well.

That said, I personally would NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS have bought an RV over a bus. I know this is primarily an RVer site, so you are going to get certain advice here. Go to a skoolie-oriented forum, and what you'll hear will be different.  My own observation, which is admittedly highly anecdotal, is that RV people and bus people aren't really the same people.

Here are my reasons for choosing a bus. Even if only #1 were true, I think I'd still have picked a bus.

1) Though it's touted as a plus, I really am not into the idea that "The house is already built." I don't like the boxy layout I see in most RVs, and the only way I'd live in one is if I got to gut it and build it as my own. I don't view the vehicle as a box to travel around in, so the aesthetics of it are important to me, and my own aesthetics are not remotely those of the RV industry. I LOVE driving my bus. I love looking at it. I love hanging out in it. It is set up exactly the way I want it to be, and I don't think I've ever seen another one quite like it. I'm sure lots of people hate what I've done with it, but hey, it's not their bus. The opportunity to fully customize is a big part of the draw for bus ownership. If that's not something you care about, then yeah, you could probably get an RV instead.
2) Safety. Any school bus newer than about 1980 conforms to pretty rigid standards. Studies have proven that school buses are the safest vehicles on the road, and are designed to distribute crash impact very differently than other vehicles. I don't want all the RV folks to get mad at me, but I have done my homework on this. Why, then, is it so hard to get insurance? Skoolies don't have an industry behind them like RVs do, lobbying insurance companies to be sure owners can get covered. There is no evidence whatsoever that DIY conversions cause or are involved in more accidents. Yes, there are dopes who do it wrong. Just don't be one of them, and your family is far safer in a bus.
3) Space. Foot for foot, you get more usable space out of a bus conversion, and you can decide how that space is allocated.
4) Anyplace that's snobby enough not to let me in with my bus is not a place I want to stay anyway.
5) It's easier to get tires, mechanical services, etc. with a short bus (not true for a full size bus) than it is for an RV, and easier for gas than for diesel, as I have discovered with my diesel.

If you want advice on the bus from bus people, there's a forum for that. I can't post the link because I'm new here and the rules suggest not posting links for a while, but it's easy to find if you search for school bus conversion forums.

Good luck, whatever you choose!

Appreciate the good advice and how you have outlined the Pros and Cons.