Step Van Conversion - Grumliner

[grummy]

Greetings all,<br />I've been lurking here, reading the various topics. Figured I would share with you my project. I call it the "Grumliner". I was thinking "Stealth Camper" at first, but I think the the minute I put the aluminum wheels on, I think "stealth" pretty much all went out the window !<br /><br />I've had 4 Step Vans over the years. Love them ! They had been rather inexpensive until aluminum prices jumped up there, but you can still find them reasonable.<br /><br />Two years ago I picked up a 12 foot low top with intentions of converting it, but when I got done gutting it, I counted something like 160 holes that had been drilled thru the body to hold the old interior in. That was just too much TIG welding and body work to make it worth while. So, I searched a full year for the perfect truck and found exactly what I wanted... one the same size I had years ago.<br /><br />The following web pages are not quite up to date, but they do convey the direction I am headed with the conversion. I Intend to get some newer photos posted in the next few weeks.<br /><br />Hopefully my web pages will provide some eye candy for others interested in step vans. Enjoy !<br /><br />http://www.data-cut.com/grumliner.htm

 

[karl]

Greetings from another Grumman fan.<br />like what you've done.<br />Been toying with the idea of lowering my '87 12'. It already sits close to the overloads with a weight of 8k. Been waiting since am also fairly serious about swapping the smallblock for a 6bt cummins......need some hand holding and guidance to pull the trigger on that.

 

[bobbert]

Man, your website explains a ton of detail on different aspects of a step van!
I learned a lot!!!
Thanks for sharing <img src="/images/boards/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" align="absmiddle">

 

[blueberry]

Fascinating! I'd love to have a step van like yours or a schoolbus but I'm planning to do a lot of traveling over the next couple of years. I'll most likely go for a cargo van to save on gas and then think about something like this when I'm ready to slow down.<br /><br />Thanks for sharing!

 

[grummy]

Thanks for the comments both in the forum here and the ones I received via email !<br /><br />I did add another page of photos for those interested.<br /><br />http://www.data-cut.com/grumliner3.htm<br /><br />Or the beginning page:<br />http://www.data-cut.com/grumliner.htm<br /><br />Forgive me on the poor web page creation etiquette.... I'm not much of a fan of creating web pages !<br /><br />grummy

 

[HoboBerg]

Great project! Thanks for the pics!

 

[bk2valve]

Extremely awesome Grummy. You doing a magnificent job....thanks for sharing it with us...I love steppers too....<br />Bri

 

[grummy]

It's not a truck that I am "living in", at least not yet ! With todays economy, who knows what tomorrow will bring ? At this point, I can say bring it on ! I'll be ready enough to give up a house if and when necessary. For now I just refer to it as my "cabin up north on wheels" (Its parked in my backyard, just north of my house!)<br /><br />Some of my next goals are to save up for a solar panel. I'm going to shoot for a single panel of as near to 250 watts as possible, and the higher voltage panel than a 12 volt unit. It sure sounds like the higher voltage panels might be a bit more useful in the great lakes region with less solar time available. Once I have the panel, I will kick around the possibility of a 2 direction, aluminum frame work so I could tilt it if I want to.&nbsp; I do have a little Honda generator (an old EM400 watt) and would like a new EU2000, but figure money is better spent on something that does not need gasoline first... Especially after I saw those long lines waiting for Gas out east. What a fragile society we live in !<br /><br />I've been heating the inside on occasion with either my electric ceramic heater or the Espar, but it's not gotten cold enough here to really be able to compare how well I insulated this truck compared to my last one. Thinking too about the aspect of fuel availability, I stumbled on to some forum talk about rocket stove mass heaters....<br /><br />Starting to think that I might want to try to build a small, wall mount burner similar to the size of the Dickenson Marine style wood stoves. If things got tough out there, I would still want to be WARM in the winter, and a few sticks would go a long way when it comes to heating a fairly well insulated box. The rocket stove concept seems to eliminate smoke typical of a traditional wood stove (once lit anyhow), so it sure seems like another good option in a vehicle like this. <br /><br />

 

[yesican]

Is your Grummin diesel or gas?&nbsp; A small wall mounted boat diesel heater would be great for the grummin.&nbsp; You'd probably stay nice and toasty.&nbsp; Nice job.&nbsp; There were a few Grummins for sale here but they were $20 grand.&nbsp; A bit steep for me.&nbsp; Also I haven't a clue what the gas mileage is on a Grummin...that makes a difference into days economy.&nbsp; What does your's get?<br /><br />Rae

 

[Lostinspace]

Hi Grummy,

Nice conversion you're doing. I found a 1985 G30 Chevy step van today, it's a golden flake chip truck. All aluminum with barn doors. It has a Detroit diesel with a manual 4 speed. Drove it today. The shifter is sloppy. But then the odo indicates its gone around the dial once, as in a million miles. Its a six digit odo. I don't know if it's a Grumman.

The engine is immaculate, no oil anywhere. The body is clean and straight. And he's asking 3900$, I thought of offering 35. It drives kind of rough, ie steering is not as tight as could be. Tires are 1995, so will need tires. Somewhat of a chore to drive. But then my shoulder is bothering me right now, which I think is part of the reason. it probably will need some front end work to tighten it up.

The frame under is straight, just some surface rust. It had no tachometer so I couldn't determine engine speed versus mph. Plenty of power. But it sounds like its turning a lot of rpms to go just 35 mph. Clutch is fine, not slipping. Are there higher ratio rear ends available? I would like to drive it 55 to 65 mph range, probably 55 mph. I will have it inspected by a mechanic and get a report. I like the Allison manual tranny, less problems, and its pretty much bullet proof.

Golden flake at some point added a box with lights for different engine parameters, even has a computer station area to tie in to with a computer. The owner says they told him that when they put the computer tie in they went through and freshened up the engine etc. but he doesn't know when.

So my question to you is, are there higher ratio rear ends available? Should I pull the trigger on this? What do you think?

Thanks, Wade in NW Florida

 

[grummy]

Rae,<br />I do already have a Diesel Eberspacher mounted.... but the truck is a Gas truck. I have a diesel tank for the heater. They use so little, it goes a long way.<br /><br />I prefer my Gas engine for what I require.&nbsp; I have both experienced diesels in step vans personally, as well as have friends with them. The only diesel step vans that do well on mpg's are the trucks that got retro'd with the 4BT Cummins. They have generally done better than 20mpg (highs of 28 Empty with a wind at their back), but honestly, I don't think you could EVER get them quiet enough or smooth enough to make it worth my while. The boss currently has a 4BT truck and it is crazy loud inside, and shakes everything when its idling. What ever you would build inside would rattle itself apart ! My truck is darn near Cadillac like... I can put an open soda on the dash or the back bench and it wont tip over with normal driving. Of course I pulled 7 leaves out of the back springs to soften it up... major difference.<br /><br />Regards mpg's, besides the 4 banger, the 6.5's are smoother, but no one I know who has one comes anywhere near the mpg's of the 4 cylinder trucks. One friend has an electrician business... he's claimed he is lucky if he gets 12 mpg. My High has been 14 mpg (wind at my back) and my low has been 9.5 mpg pulling an equipment trailer with tractors on it. Guys at shows I talk to who have showed up with similar loads behind their diesel pickups tell me they are probably only getting 10 mpg. <br /><br />When I do some real math on paper, the cost of diesel in comparison doesn't add up for me. Neither does the COST of ANY parts on a diesel when you have trouble. Another friend has a Diesel in a late model chevy van. His fuel pump quit. I think he paid $600 to $800 for that pump and then had to pull the tank to put it in. When he was done, it still did not run....... Turns out they cool one of the computers ..... with FUEL ..... It burned out and he layed out another $1100. Thats 550 gallons of gas, and you know what ? MY fuel pump costs UNDER $20 and I dont have to pull the tank to install it !<br /><br />Yet another guy I talked with at a show had been driving a new Sprinter. This year, he was back in his old Chevy with the 6.0 gas engine. He took it off the road with nearly 400,000 miles on it. He was back in the chevy because the tranny went out on the sprinter. $4000+ later, and he said its just not worth it. Costs over $200 for every oil change !<br /><br />When my engine blows up, I can find a long block off the shelf for about $2 grand.... a whole engine for the same price as my buddies computer and pump. And we get the same mpg anyhow. <br /><br />When people want the short answer on Step Van mpg, I just say 10. Doesnt matter what you got in it.... its 10.

 

[grummy]

Wade,<br />Hard to tell if pulling the trigger is a good or bad thing from this far away..... I wouldnt advise doing so if you have not studied the market.... or looked behind and around every building and old business in your area. They always turn up, and they used to be a little less money.... scrap aluminum has driven them up. I like to find them in need..... something that keeps them from driving without being overwhelmingly major. Like a bad transmission or like my current one, the rear brakes were out (just the brake lines). It was a small thing that kept it from selling easily for the amount the seller had hoped for.<br /><br />Of course, I ONLY spend time looking for trucks of your era ('80's) with a Gas engine and TH400 transmission. They are easily found and inexpensive compared to what you have in the truck you are looking at. My truck, the one on the web pages I have shared was bought for $2000 with the tires and paint thats on it. The guy wanted $3500 a year earlier which was a bit high.... I just watched it, and watched it, and when he got more serious about moving it (it was parked in a leased lot), low and behold the brake lines rusted off...... BINGO ! Time to make an offer he couldn't refuse.<br /><br />To me, the Grumman body is the most worthy. They used NO STEEL for reinforcement in the main body. The only steel you find attached happens to be the drivers floor pan, brackets between the front and rear body to chassis mounting locations and steel strips between the body and chassis on the sides. Other brands put steel inside the body, in areas like the rear door corners, hinge locations, divider walls and front door areas. What is wrong with this is that aluminum and steel end up fighting and corroding, not to mention rusting. Mid 80's trucks are now 30 year old trucks, so most are starting to show problems.<br /><br />Regarding rear axle ratios, there are not many at all.... not ones to drop rpms anyhow. The best ratio's available in these trucks was 4.10 or 4:11. SOME trucks came with stuff in the 5's, when they were built for door to door deliveries, but those are rare by the 70's already. I am going to guess that the concern you had with your test drive comes back to what I say about diesels in these trucks... they are annoyingly loud ! But you have to remember that when they dropped those Detroits in them, they did it because it would work with the ratios in the truck. I would guess the company dropped those engines in within the last 10 years... say 96 or so. And I bet everyday since then, there was a driver who hopped in EVERY MORNING, and ran it pedal to the metal all day long with nary a care..... wasn't HIS truck... nonetheless, its still running ! Because it was made to run that way. Your only option for lower rpm's is going to be with a $3000+ Gear vendors overdrive installation. ($2500 for the box, another $500 - $800 for good driveshaft mods)..... Save your money and use it for fuel... you will never, ever pay for that gear vendors unit in fuel savings.<br /><br />You'll just need to put some cotton in your ears for the next test drive and see if you can hit 65 or 70. Some were governed for 60.... 64 downhill. If she goes as fast as you would like, you'll have to figure out if you LIKE the noise... because it isn't going to go anywhere ! Your practically sitting on that engine ! LOL !

 

[Lostinspace]

I took another look at it and it is the v8 diesel, not a Detroit.&nbsp; I already know to stay away from them.&nbsp; And I called a good shop I know to see about doing a go through and they said to stay away from the 6.2 liter diesel, nothing but trouble.&nbsp; So I'm declining.&nbsp;<br /><br />Thanks for the feedback.&nbsp; Something will turn up.<br /><br />Wade in NW Florida

 

[karl]

Grummy,<br />Kicking around the rocket stove idea too- thinking along the lines of it mounted to a mast that draws air from below the van and can be raised to extend the exhaust flue above the vehicle when in use. having some reservations about drawing intake air from under where propane and gas fumes could be settling though.<br /><br />Questions on your mileage- you are running a longer and taller van than mine with better mileage....is your engine stock? carb or injected? I have the 350 3spd trans, is the 400 an od?

 

[Stillwater]

Fantastic, thorough job on the truck! I just read thru the three pages and am jealous.

 

[grummy]

Mast mounted Rocket.... Now there is an interesting idea ! I see it in my head already... Like a periscope with the combustion chamber in the middle. The bottom part telescopes (tube in a tube) for the fresh air, and the rise gives you an instant chimney with great height.<br /><br />I was looking at using 2.5" stainless exhaust tubing for the main burner, but everyone keeps saying anything under 4" will not work..... I intend to try it anyhow.<br /><br />The propane and gas fume concern is legit, but I guess first, one always must understand that good vehicle maintenance is always a must. In my case, I have 12" of body below the floor, so, I would be able to pull air from the side if I wanted to cut a port in the truck. Pulling from the side would seem a bit safer.<br /><br />Stock engine that I found Jasper Tags on... TH400 (no OD), 4bbl quadrajet that also has a clean looking rebuilt tag on it. I'll say this, I tend to drive it like a loaded class 8..... No jack rabbit starts, long gentle acceleration and I let off plenty early. I'm older and wiser... speed demons can go around me. (BTW, I've noticed over the years that "car drivers", especially gals,... they just HAVE to ride my tail no matter if I am going 10 mph over the limit or not. Their just itchy to get around me if it takes 85mph to do it.)<br /><br />Again, my short answer is "I get 10mpg". My trucks going to weight in at just under 8000 lbs. My brother in law has a 1992ish 14 footer step with an injected 350 and the 4L80e OD trans..... he gets 10 too. I have NOT seen OD increase mileage in these trucks with the 350, and I think that is because the 350 is just enough engine to pull the 4:10 ratio. HIS tranny was acting up and it cost him $1200 to get back on the road. I had a tranny shop go thru a TH400 for me on one of my other trucks and they charged me $275 and that was WITH a reman torque converter.<br /><br />I think the older, less sophisticated stuff is the best !

 

[karl]

Thanks Grummy<br />Wow, we think alike- I was planning on 2.5" stack also, so it could slide in a 3" or so....had the same nagging thoughts about draft. I think it will work with a rocket though, doubt it would with a standard stove. <br />edit- reread - BURNER 2.5" , oops. I was planning on 4" square burn tube<br /><br />I tend to aggravate those behind me too. Gas and brakes are expensive to replace.<br />Thinking you have some wisdom in your words about the 350 being just enough engine to haul this rig. Gonna look into my Q-jet- seems to b running rich by the look of the tail pipes.... If I can get to 10 I'll consider it good for a house and toolshed combined.<br />Thanks again for the reply.

 

[PYSCHOWard]

A Great Looking and Functional rig, I envy those with the skills and patience for carpentry work.

 

[wagoneer]

That is so cool I have as you had Grums my last one 1972 singles gmc 350 was a winner living in the city took it;s toll as well as the neighbors were haters. This grafitti guy painted these giant penis tree things all over the truck and the police gave me a lot of grief finially sold it to this homeless guy who was so EFed up it got towed and only god knows where it is right now. Life in the big shitty.

 

[wagoneer]

nuff said