B and C
Well-known member
Clear cache, cookies and reboot.
starting issues 1987 Dodge B250
- Thread starter Kaylee
- Start date
Help Support Van Living Forum:
highdesertranger
R.I.P HDR
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it is not fuel related it is electrical.
by your first description of it not turning over until you played with the shifter led me to believe neutral safety switch.
by it turning over once you played with the shifter led me to believe it's not the battery or cables
it's very hard to troubleshoot something over the internet.
anybody and everybody should have a factory shop manual for your vehicle. not the book you get at the auto parts store but a factory manual. in that it should have the troubleshooting guide to your problem. it will walk you through step by step to isolate the problem. this saves you money in the long run by not replacing parts that aren't bad.
some people do the shot gun approach and just start replacing parts hoping to get the correct one. sometimes it works but most of the time they end up buying a bunch of parts that were never bad.
some people here said "on older vehicles you must play with the shifter, steering wheel, steering column, battery cables." BS, fix the problem. if your steering column is loose fix it, it ain't going to fix itself and leaving it loose is dangerous and is ruining it only adding up to more dollars in the end.
highdesertranger
by your first description of it not turning over until you played with the shifter led me to believe neutral safety switch.
by it turning over once you played with the shifter led me to believe it's not the battery or cables
it's very hard to troubleshoot something over the internet.
anybody and everybody should have a factory shop manual for your vehicle. not the book you get at the auto parts store but a factory manual. in that it should have the troubleshooting guide to your problem. it will walk you through step by step to isolate the problem. this saves you money in the long run by not replacing parts that aren't bad.
some people do the shot gun approach and just start replacing parts hoping to get the correct one. sometimes it works but most of the time they end up buying a bunch of parts that were never bad.
some people here said "on older vehicles you must play with the shifter, steering wheel, steering column, battery cables." BS, fix the problem. if your steering column is loose fix it, it ain't going to fix itself and leaving it loose is dangerous and is ruining it only adding up to more dollars in the end.
highdesertranger
Kaylee
Well-known member
Thanks y'all! 
HDR: thanks for the fuel sanity check. At this point, I want to minimize the number of startups.
I've got enough gas to get there-and-back to "my" Forest spot with cellphone coverage.
If it starts ok, I'll do that.
If it doesn't start, well, it's out of my hands, and I'll hit the auto parts store tomorrow.
Technically, I'm not supposed to overnight where I am, but if it's out of my hands, it's out of my hands.
I'm waiting on some money to clear, so I can afford to go to that great third shop where they did a superb job fixing the timing. They're about 50 miles away, but if this continues & the local shop can't fix it, then that's the way to go.
When I was stuck last January-thru-March, most shops I phoned wouldn't even touch such an old vehicle.
HDR: thanks for the fuel sanity check. At this point, I want to minimize the number of startups.
I've got enough gas to get there-and-back to "my" Forest spot with cellphone coverage.
If it starts ok, I'll do that.
If it doesn't start, well, it's out of my hands, and I'll hit the auto parts store tomorrow.
Technically, I'm not supposed to overnight where I am, but if it's out of my hands, it's out of my hands.
I'm waiting on some money to clear, so I can afford to go to that great third shop where they did a superb job fixing the timing. They're about 50 miles away, but if this continues & the local shop can't fix it, then that's the way to go.
When I was stuck last January-thru-March, most shops I phoned wouldn't even touch such an old vehicle.
B and C said: "Next time it won't turn over, hold the key in the start position and use your other hand to move the gear selector. If you hear the starter engage briefly while wiggling, the neutral safety switch is the culprit and needs adjusting. Put the selector in neutral and your foot on the brake while doing the wiggling (up and down) like you are changing gears."
Apparently, you posted that while I was spending an hour trying to post the same thing. Had I known that, I could've saved myself the trouble... lol
B and C said: "Clear cache, cookies and reboot."
Thanks.......... I might try that later. I switched to another browser, but the quote feature still doesn't work ... oh well!
Apparently, you posted that while I was spending an hour trying to post the same thing. Had I known that, I could've saved myself the trouble... lol
B and C said: "Clear cache, cookies and reboot."
Thanks.......... I might try that later. I switched to another browser, but the quote feature still doesn't work ... oh well!
highdesertranger
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I didn't mention any names. highdesertranger
Kaylee
Well-known member
Joe, I appreciate your effort, and I feel the pain of the 404!
Recently, geogentry and I had a major head-bashing experience with those when PMing, and 3 times it's stopped me from posting detailed forum replies. Very frustrating!
It really is a server software issue.
"frater secessus" is a genuine expert & tried to help a few months ago, but got spewed on by somebody.
Thanks again everyone:
I've saved the relevant pages of this thread, so I can refer to them if/when it next crops up.
Recently, geogentry and I had a major head-bashing experience with those when PMing, and 3 times it's stopped me from posting detailed forum replies. Very frustrating!
It really is a server software issue.
"frater secessus" is a genuine expert & tried to help a few months ago, but got spewed on by somebody.
Thanks again everyone:
I've saved the relevant pages of this thread, so I can refer to them if/when it next crops up.
highdesertranger
R.I.P HDR
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just curious, if it's a server software issue why doesn't it happen to everyone? like I said I am no techie but I would think if it was the server it would happen across the board. highdesertranger
Kaylee
Well-known member
HDR:
It mystifies me, and this is my area.
It could be a load issue.
This is not the sort of thing a regular webmaster would have expertise in.
They really need to get somebody with bona fide expertise to look at the logs. CRVL's web hosting provider may have somebody.
Frater had some excellent suggestions, and he knows his stuff. He could at least be a resource to translate what the webhost says, and say whether it's bogus or legit.
I posted more thoughts in the most recent 404 woes thread.
I do want to emphasize that it definitely is not a user issue. I tried a ton of different things, and only by trimming down the post/PM was I able to get anywhere (I did save copies of at least one of the originals, if that would help).
Oh, and "wiggling things", while not a cure, is a valid strategy for any wonky piece of technology, whether it be hardware or software.
Just don't "yank" on it - wiggle gently.
P.S. Decided to eat dinner & do a bit of DVD watching.
Will be heading out in about an hour.
It mystifies me, and this is my area.
It could be a load issue.
This is not the sort of thing a regular webmaster would have expertise in.
They really need to get somebody with bona fide expertise to look at the logs. CRVL's web hosting provider may have somebody.
Frater had some excellent suggestions, and he knows his stuff. He could at least be a resource to translate what the webhost says, and say whether it's bogus or legit.
I posted more thoughts in the most recent 404 woes thread.
I do want to emphasize that it definitely is not a user issue. I tried a ton of different things, and only by trimming down the post/PM was I able to get anywhere (I did save copies of at least one of the originals, if that would help).
Oh, and "wiggling things", while not a cure, is a valid strategy for any wonky piece of technology, whether it be hardware or software.
Just don't "yank" on it - wiggle gently.
P.S. Decided to eat dinner & do a bit of DVD watching.
Will be heading out in about an hour.
Way back in 1974 I was driving a 1974 Dodge B series van. Parked in a campground, somewhere mid Pennsy, and the van would not start. Same symptoms. Guy comes out and replaces the neutral switch. Starts right up.
I vote neutral safety switch.
Back then it protruded from the tranny in an easy to reach spot without having get cozy with the tranny. Not hard to replace.
A Kaylee would get under there and jump the connections to verify.
BUT MAKE SURE IT IS ALWAYS IN PARK/NEUTRAL WHEN STARTING!!!
As in "Red October", the safety switch has been disabled.
I vote neutral safety switch.
Back then it protruded from the tranny in an easy to reach spot without having get cozy with the tranny. Not hard to replace.
A Kaylee would get under there and jump the connections to verify.
BUT MAKE SURE IT IS ALWAYS IN PARK/NEUTRAL WHEN STARTING!!!
As in "Red October", the safety switch has been disabled.
Kaylee
Well-known member
Gary, yes, I thought it was clear that it's a Killfile app issue.
You identified the, um, "human factors" Source of the Killage in your last two-ish PMs to me. It's not something that I can solve.
It's definitely not a technical problem.
Plus, your forums don't have the dreaded 404 bug.
Wayne, duck for the GeekPoint.
Yes, I'm a failure as an Engine Kaylee, but as a Code Kaylee, I can fix dang near anything.
It's still Broke, but the solution has been found - was writing it up when I saw you two gents' posts, and figured I'd do those as a separate post.
You identified the, um, "human factors" Source of the Killage in your last two-ish PMs to me. It's not something that I can solve.
It's definitely not a technical problem.
Plus, your forums don't have the dreaded 404 bug.
Wayne, duck for the GeekPoint.
Yes, I'm a failure as an Engine Kaylee, but as a Code Kaylee, I can fix dang near anything.
It's still Broke, but the solution has been found - was writing it up when I saw you two gents' posts, and figured I'd do those as a separate post.
Kaylee
Well-known member
Update:
It still won't crank.
Soooo, I popped the hood, and wiggled a ton of stuff, rechecked the oil, closed it up, and...
...heard the Voice of an Angel/Hero asking if I wanted help.
An "ex"-Marine, fellow Library free-wifi-"wardriver", who'd seen me a few times (as I'd seen him).
Turns out he's also a former mechanic.
He took a look, while I tried to start a few times, and he confirmed the starter was the source.
He apologized that he didn't have a flashlight, or he'd crawl under and take a look.
I asked him what kind he'd prefer.
He was delighted, and crawled under...
and almost immediately spotted a missing bolt in the starter, as well as the source of my oil leak.
He figures the shop that did the engine change was sloppy, on both counts (which is consistent with the Timing problem).
He even used the flashlight as a pointer and talked me thru what each looks like, so I can talk intelligently with a repair shop.
He figures the auto parts store can replace the bolt for a few bucks, but the oil leak will probably be much more but not insane & doesn't have to be done immediately. The starter bolt is necessary, so I'm staying the night.
I'm greatly relieved.
And thankful for the kindness of strangers - he's a true hero!
Thanks everyone for your help & support.
I should be back on the road tomorrow morning.
P.S. One of my Big Pushbutton Things is that every vehicle should have at least three flashlights. One in the back, one in the glove compartment (or nearby), and at least one headlamp readily available to the front.
They don't have to be high-end "tactical" ones. Even Walmart's no-name ones are better than nothing.
P.P.S. I did (of course) talk a little about boondocking & van dwelling, and he was delighted when I pointed out the solar panels (he hadn't twigged to them).
All round kewl guy.
Any ideas how I'd nominate him for a helper award?
I'll ask the Librarian.
It still won't crank.
Soooo, I popped the hood, and wiggled a ton of stuff, rechecked the oil, closed it up, and...
...heard the Voice of an Angel/Hero asking if I wanted help.
An "ex"-Marine, fellow Library free-wifi-"wardriver", who'd seen me a few times (as I'd seen him).
Turns out he's also a former mechanic.
He took a look, while I tried to start a few times, and he confirmed the starter was the source.
He apologized that he didn't have a flashlight, or he'd crawl under and take a look.
I asked him what kind he'd prefer.
He was delighted, and crawled under...
and almost immediately spotted a missing bolt in the starter, as well as the source of my oil leak.
He figures the shop that did the engine change was sloppy, on both counts (which is consistent with the Timing problem).
He even used the flashlight as a pointer and talked me thru what each looks like, so I can talk intelligently with a repair shop.
He figures the auto parts store can replace the bolt for a few bucks, but the oil leak will probably be much more but not insane & doesn't have to be done immediately. The starter bolt is necessary, so I'm staying the night.
I'm greatly relieved.
And thankful for the kindness of strangers - he's a true hero!
Thanks everyone for your help & support.
I should be back on the road tomorrow morning.
P.S. One of my Big Pushbutton Things is that every vehicle should have at least three flashlights. One in the back, one in the glove compartment (or nearby), and at least one headlamp readily available to the front.
They don't have to be high-end "tactical" ones. Even Walmart's no-name ones are better than nothing.
P.P.S. I did (of course) talk a little about boondocking & van dwelling, and he was delighted when I pointed out the solar panels (he hadn't twigged to them).
All round kewl guy.
Any ideas how I'd nominate him for a helper award?
I'll ask the Librarian.
So its starting now or youre waiting fornthe bolt? No new engine or rebuilt engine should be missing starter bolts and leaking oil. Im pissed off for you. Im a mech by trade and it blows my mind what people get away with. Wheres the pride in work?
Kaylee
Well-known member
Elbear1:
Still not starting.
The kind Hero didn't have the right bolt or tools, but he did offer to fix it.
I figured I'll try the auto parts store first, just so the Hero doesn't feel obligated to plan his day around me, and said so. He concurred, but said he'd look for me only if he was driving nearby.
He had also offered to bang it while I started, which probably would have gotten it to start, but I explained that I was boondocking so needed it to work before heading into the Forest (that led to a mutually enjoyable discussion about NFS, dwelling, solar, etc).
Thanks for the sanity check!
Yes, I agree.
It was extremely stressful when I had the Timing issue (it kept stalling), the first day after getting the van back from the replacement shop.
PM'd Brian ("B and C") directly, and (as usual) he was a font of Dodge knowledge as well as being most supportive.
The third shop did a great job.
The starter issue is recent, so I suspect the bolt was merely loose, and driving on NFS roads may have shaked it loose. The last time I drove into the Forest, the road was particularly bad.
I'm a Newb at NFS road driving, so on that I defer to You Who Know.
It's a tremendous relief knowing there's a well defined source for both of these problems.
Still not starting.
The kind Hero didn't have the right bolt or tools, but he did offer to fix it.
I figured I'll try the auto parts store first, just so the Hero doesn't feel obligated to plan his day around me, and said so. He concurred, but said he'd look for me only if he was driving nearby.
He had also offered to bang it while I started, which probably would have gotten it to start, but I explained that I was boondocking so needed it to work before heading into the Forest (that led to a mutually enjoyable discussion about NFS, dwelling, solar, etc).
Thanks for the sanity check!
Yes, I agree.
It was extremely stressful when I had the Timing issue (it kept stalling), the first day after getting the van back from the replacement shop.
PM'd Brian ("B and C") directly, and (as usual) he was a font of Dodge knowledge as well as being most supportive.
The third shop did a great job.
The starter issue is recent, so I suspect the bolt was merely loose, and driving on NFS roads may have shaked it loose. The last time I drove into the Forest, the road was particularly bad.
I'm a Newb at NFS road driving, so on that I defer to You Who Know.
It's a tremendous relief knowing there's a well defined source for both of these problems.
Kaylee
Well-known member
Yes, that's why I put the "ex" in quotes. Was thinking fondly of Gunny.
Were you a Marine, Firtree?
Were you a Marine, Firtree?
geogentry
Well-known member
Semper FiFirtree said:
Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk
Kaylee
Well-known member
Just got back from the parts store.
Total blank look from principal guy when I said my starter has a bolt missing.
Finally he offered to jump me, but said he said he's booked all day.
Ugh.
And now the phoning begins.
Total blank look from principal guy when I said my starter has a bolt missing.
Finally he offered to jump me, but said he said he's booked all day.
Ugh.
And now the phoning begins.
highdesertranger
R.I.P HDR
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is it a bolt that mounts the starter to the engine? or a bolt that is actually a part on the starter/solenoid? highdesertranger
