Solar quote lol

[Kozi_Kidy]

After watching Bob talk about how we can get a great deal on solar at that place in Arizona I thought that would be great but I can't get there and shipping would probably be really expensive. So I thought I'll try to get a quote from someone closer to me. I called Missouri Wind and Solar and asked for a quote and told them what what I plan on doing they asked me to email them with my needs, what things ill be using so I sent them this exact info:

Refrigerator

https://m.lowes.com/pd/Whirlpool-4-...-Black-Stainless-Steel-ENERGY-STAR/1000179061​

RV fan would be turned on low 24 hours a day​

https://www.amazon.com/Maxxair-00-0...RLG02&pd_rd_i=B0050EEO94&coliid=I94GXE0TK58WR
​

Water pump less than an hour a day most days about 20 mins of use. ​

https://www.amazon.com/bayite-Press...water+pump&dpPl=1&dpID=51S-1WBurDL&ref=plSrch​

2 LED lights on about 10 hours a day​

A cell phone charger on a few hours a day​

A laptop charger on maybe 4-6 hours a day. I'll be using it a lot. ​

I got back a quote of $3767.65 for the full works except not including installation. That is for four (4) 260 watts solar panels and 5 batteries and all the fixings. Oh boy that seems like a lot. I'll try to include the screen shots of the quote. ​

I have tried to understand solar but it is simply beyond my brain power but I'm pretty sure that's more than I need.  Lol I've seen other people who have apt size refrigerators and just have 100 or 200 watts. I was kinda thinking about getting 300w just to be safe but 1040w sounds a little rediculous.  Missouri Wind and Solar has a YouTube channel and I like the guy he gives some great advice and knowledge. Just thought y'all might get a laugh from this.​

 

[cyndi]

Yikes!

 

[Blanch]

That’s an awful lot of electricity you plan on using.

I use maybe 5 minutes on the water pump daily, usually less.

I use a 12volt fridge/freezer.

I use battery operated lights after dark.

I use my fan only when showering.

I charge my tablet and laptop and other stuff during the day, in full sun. I use power bricks with a full charge after dark.

I have 160 watts solar and need to add another panel. I use two batteries.

Batteries were $200. My solar suitcase can be purchased for less than $300.

I’ve got two plus years full time in a travel trailer. The easier thing to do it to conserve electricity.


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[John61CT]

Panel watts depends on season, location, weather, other sources available.

I'd start with 2 pairs of Duracell (actually Deka/East Penn) FLA deep cycle golf cart batteries, 2x6V, around $200 per 200+AH pair from BatteriesPlus or Sam's Club. Deka labeled same batts also sold at Lowes.

As for panels, see if you can find a link to those, tech specs.

You can start with less then add more, maybe 500W for your loads, but it's not ideal to do that with batteries.

The controller is a good one, but the smaller Victron SmartSolar give more flexibility.

Why did you choose that company?

 

[Kozi_Kidy]

Blanch, I haven't lived on the road yet so I could only estimate my usage and I went high just to be safe.
My main thing is I want an apt size fridge because I want a freezer section. But I don't know how to do the figures on how much solar that needs.

John61CT I chose them because they are closer to me and I liked the guys videos.

 

[Moxadox]

Having just done a 900W solar install with jimindenver, who does a very clean install mind you, I can attest that when you go big it ain't cheap. Not only do the main components cost a bundle, but all the stuff you need to make it work (cables, wire, connectors, Dicor, etc) add up. This was not a surprise to me, but it might be to someone who hasn't added up the numbers.

Most van dwellers do fine with 200-300W or less. Those systems run most of what we need for daily life. If you are trying to run bigger stuff or something essential like CPAP, charging wheelchair batteries, big CPUs, whatever, and you feel you can't do it any other way, be prepared for a big sticker price.

My 900W system with 400aH of AGM battery bank, 2000W inverter and Victron MPPT controller on my 30' 5th wheel will end up costing me right around $5k. $3k for all parts, $2k labor. If I had the physical ability and expertise to do it myself, sure it would cost a lot less, but I don't. If I couldn't afford it I would make do with less electricity. If I COULD afford it I'd expand my battery bank and add another 300W panel.

So, like everything else, it's a matter of economics. You get what you pay for (most of the time, lol), and you pay for what you get. Good materials ain't cheap.

The Dire Wolfess

 

[mpruet]

My experience is the more I can do in DC the less expensive my power costs are going to be. 

I have an RV which does just fine on 2 100-watt panels.  I'm able to get up to 13.7 Volts in a couple of hours in the morning so am getting a fairly good recharge daily.  I run a fridge/freezer, exhaust fan, LED lights, water pump, and recharge my phones/hotspots/iPad.  It sounds like my end use devices are pretty much the same as yours.  The big difference is that all of my stuff is DC power, not AC.

I can also recharge my batteries with the alternator as well as with a generator.  Quite honestly you need to have alternate means of recharging your batteries because you just never know when you're going to have several days of bad weather. You need to include a generator in your plans for power.  

Anyway -

I have a 12-volt fridge/freezer and also have been able to switch my laptop needs to an iPad.  The iPad can be charged from an USB port, so I can recharge it directly from my batteries without having to go through an inverter.  I got a keyboard for my iPad so I can use it pretty much the same way as my laptop.  I am a fairly active online person and maintain a blob as well as youTube presence.  My video editing is done on the iPad as well as my blog entries.  I just got back from a three month trip and was able to do all of my online work on the iPad.

All of my lighting is LED.  So I can get by just fine without an inverter.

Your most expensive things to run are your fridge and laptop.  And both currently require going through an inverter - and that's an expensive proposition since an inverter is going to cost a lot of extra power just to turn on.

I'd first check to see if you could run on an iPad since that can be directly charged 12-volts.  Also an iPad only requires a fraction of the power that a typical laptop does.  Also I'd explore the possibility of getting a 12-volt compressor fridge/freezer for the same reason.  I'd try to get away from any AC powered devices because that requires an inverter and an inverter wastes power.

 

[Blanch]

I use 160 watts with a generator as back up. The only person I know who uses a regular fridge was using a generator. Get all the stuff you can as 12 volt. Look at Engel fridge/freezer units.


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[John61CT]

My main thing is I want an apt size fridge because I want a freezer section. But I don't know how to do the figures on how much solar that needs.

Way too much.

Best to get two of the very efficient 12V compressor type units, that run as a fridge or freezer can then change each as needed.

 

[QinReno]

900W of solar. When Moxie does something, she really does it, doesn't she!

 

[Trebor English]

My main thing is I want an apt size fridge because I want a freezer section. But I don't know how to do the figures on how much solar that needs.

For the fridge you linked:

$39 estimated yearly cosy at 12 cents per kilowatt hour for an apartment fridge in an apartment.  Mobile electricity costs more than 12 cents per kwh.

325 kilowatt hours per year based on typical use.  They don't say what typical use ambient temperature is for purposes of the test.  My minivan has afternoon high temps way over 90.  I'm sure that van use is not typical use.

325 / 365.26 is .889 kwh per day
That's 889 watt hours per day.  

Add 20% for loss in the inverter that makes 120 v out of 12 v.
889 + 177 = 1066

I would add 10% for the higher than typical ambient temperatures in a van.  This is seasonal.  The lower temperatures in the winter will lower the anual average but during the entire summer that doesn't help.

1066 + 106.6 = 1172 watt hours per day.

1172.6 ÷ 12 = 97.7 amp hours per day.  
97.7 amp hours per day is huge.  

I have a tiny dorm fridge (Haier 1.7) running off an inverter.  Since I added a bunch of insulation, I added twice what was there, it is an affordable 6 to 13 amp hours per day, depending on temperature.  

To provide 97.7 amp hours per day including enough battery to last through a rainy day I wouldn't quote you a smaller cheaper system.  

A small 12 volt fridge is around 20 amp hours per day.  It is common for people with a small 12 volt fridge to have 200 amp hours of battery and 200 watts of solar.  5 times that is in the ball park of 1000 watts.  

Since solar electric energy is so expensive the key to making it work is to conserve.

 

[tx2sturgis]

That's a LOT of money to keep 1.2 cubic feet of food frozen....

 

[Kozi_Kidy]

I will have a generator for an A/C unit and as general backup. So I have to keep my van at moderately cool temperatures say no higher than 80. I also plan to insulate the refrigerator and I can probably get away with a smaller unit. Jay on YouTube his channel is A City Nomad has a 3.2 unit run on a 100 watt panel and Into the Mystery on YouTube had a guy that had an apt size fridge too and a small PV system too. Welp I've got my info wrong I guess and I need to go investigate how they did it.
I thought MW&S was way off but maybe not.

 

[Kozi_Kidy]

Here is a video of Jed from Into the Mystery showing what I was talking about. This couple has 200 watts but they use a relay system that ill have to check out to make it work.



And here is Jay from a City Nomad talking about his fridge.

 

[John61CT]

To the extent you use the genny, drive a lot or park in desert sun, 100W can work for a small efficient fridge.

But to cut down on ICE charging, with those sort of loads fulltime boondocking , more solar the better

 

[B and C]

Here is a writeup on the relay system. He talks about really needing a fridge that doesn't use the skin to cool it. Need on with the condenser tubes on the back so it can be insulated.
https://www.viavacavi.com/diy-hybrid-12v-fridge-on-the-cheap/

 

[tx2sturgis]

Yep, if that fridge, or any other fridge, uses a 'skin condensor' you can't insulate it, at least not on the sides. (sure, you can add insulation to the top or maybe inside the door, if it makes you feel better)

Plus, if mounted inside a cabinet or other enclosure, it will work that much longer...tossing that 'energy star' rating out the window.

 

[LoveCareThinkDo]

I'm in Missouri too. It seems all the places I've contacted charge about 75% more than that place out in Flagstaff. (Northern Arizona Wind & Sun ?) I think these places here in MO just don't do as much business as places in AZ, and so have to charge more to cover their overhead.

But at those prices, it would be cheaper to make a road trip to AZ than buy in MO.

 

[John61CT]

The actual installation is not rocket science, any decent handyman can do it.

The harder part is getting good* panels without paying a fortune for shipping.

Everything else is just acquiring knowledge on the web (here included) and placing orders.

 

[highdesertranger]

it's always easier and cheaper to conserve energy then it is to make it.

I can run one 12v Engel freezer off one 100 watt panel and one cheapo marine battery and I just add another panel and battery to run another Engel as a fridge. I put my money into the refrigerator/freezer instead of the solar batteries.

highdesertranger