Solar or not?

[wagoneer]

Solar panels are like gathering rain from the sky you would want to put the water into a bucket that does not leak. Using this water sparingly conserving it like gold. The same with capturing energy from the sun it's a gift use it with wisdom store it in a special place.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Accidentally depleting a battery, yeah but I'd rather it be ligit.

I hear ya.

Not suggesting anything else, really, but its possible, in theory, that what you have wont last.

I do think it will, if you get some solar power.

And if your budget means that either you upgrade the battery OR you buy a solar panel and controller, then definitely, get the panels and keep the battery you have.

 

[HumbleBeginnings]

Although solar is generally a good idea, I'm curious to find out how much your current usage draws down your battery, and how long you camp in one place at a time. The reason I ask is I ran a 50qt fridge, roof van, LEDs, and sink pump for 5 days last month and I used roughly 50Ah total*. Once you have your meter you can start investigating these things.

But if you're going to consume 10Ah of your battery and then drive for 12 hours... I would say the dollars spent on solar may not be needed.

[*based on 200Ah of battery which decreased to ~12.5v after 5 days]

 

[Almost There]

I hate idling my engine, will be glad to not have to do it.  Now, should I wait until I get to quartside/RTR to purchase solar panels and whatever else I need. I'll be looking at portable units, will someone help me set it up and understand what is what? 

IIWM, I'd wait until I get to the RTR to purchase solar panels. You'll be able to see what other people have done/are doing for a whole variety of set-ups and you'll also be able to talk in real time with those who know what they're doing (and some that don't.... ). You'll also be able to get some darned good  help in setting up solar that will work for you

It's not just as simple as buying some equipment and learning how to plug it in - living off-grid means consciously and deliberately producing your own energy to use as you need. It's not difficult by any means but it does require a bit of a learning curve and an awareness that isn't present when just flipping switches in a S&B situation.

In the meantime, read as much as you can ingest. Ask questions and study up on it!

 

[John TF]

Do not take what I am about to say as a negative , or any reason to not learn
There are a lot of issues here , 1st up the almost total lack of knowledge about too many things .
Not having a multi-meter , and not knowing how to use - I do not have a good memory but will try to get the point across ,

Lord Kelvin " I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind. "
Lord Kelvin

Do not make assumptions without a knowledge base - as an example thinking there is more voltage with fridge plugged in .
To start , I would suggest spending as little as possible with projects that do not matter , as an example some LED lighting that is only connected to a small solar panel , maybe 5-15 watt [ problem here is there are premium pricing on small panels ] typically $2-3 per watt & up , while panels that do real work can be as low as $1 per watt , I would suggest never to send more that $1.50 per watt [ except for flex-able / folding , small ] - generally they command higher pricing .
So after getting that small panel , LED light , next start with a used car battery , free - if not just the core charge for not having one to trade in when buying a new battery .
Next is metering [ not a multi-meter ] but meters that are always connected - so at a glance you can see whats going on - to do this get a panel volt meter and a panel amp / current meter , these can be found as cheap as a couple bucks each , but they do need to be rated for what ever numbers are expected to be , in the above case 25 volts [ a 12v solar panel open voltage can be as high as 22 volts ] with nominal around 14v .
Then a amp / current meter at maybe max 3 amps , you want low amp reading because the system above is going to be averaging less than an amp for charging / draw .
All of the above should be less than $75 , now after getting use to the values of solar / battery / charging etc. , you get a grasp of these numbers , and how each device works , you can buy / build without ripping yourself off , like spending twice as much as need on the wrong battery , solar panel - 3 to 6 times as much .
With low power use & charge with above - no need for charge controller .
When charging from engine running , remember that there is vary little , if any charging at idle , average charge rate of alternators these days is 90 - 160 amps , and that only happens as higher engine RPM's , like min. of 1,300 RPM + .
Some of the biggest issues with mobile solar are not enough area to supply enough energy , or enough area for enough batteries for what most want or think .

Take over the world - put panels everywhere

 

[Bohemian scout]

Do not take what I am about to say as a negative , or any reason to not learn
There are a lot of issues here , 1st up the almost total lack of knowledge about too many things .
Not having a multi-meter , and not knowing how to use - I do not have a good memory but will try to get the point across ,

Lord Kelvin " I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind. "
Lord Kelvin

Do not make assumptions without a knowledge base - as an example thinking there is more voltage with fridge plugged in .
To start , I would suggest spending as little as possible with projects that do not matter , as an example some LED lighting that is only connected to a small solar panel , maybe 5-15 watt [ problem here is there are premium pricing on small panels ] typically $2-3 per watt & up , while panels that do real work can be as low as $1 per watt , I would suggest never to send more that $1.50 per watt [ except for flex-able / folding , small ] - generally they command higher pricing .
So after getting that small panel , LED light , next start with a used car battery , free - if not just the core charge for not having one to trade in when buying a new battery .
Next is metering [ not a multi-meter ] but meters that are always connected - so at a glance you can see whats going on - to do this get a panel volt meter and a panel amp / current meter , these can be found as cheap as a couple bucks each , but they do need to be rated for what ever numbers are expected to be , in the above case 25 volts [ a 12v solar panel open voltage can be as high as 22 volts ] with nominal around 14v .
Then a amp / current meter at maybe max 3 amps , you want low amp reading because the system above is going to be averaging less than an amp for charging / draw .
All of the above should be less than $75 , now after getting use to the values of solar / battery / charging etc. , you get a grasp of these numbers , and how each device works , you can buy / build without ripping yourself off , like spending twice as much as need on the wrong battery , solar panel - 3 to 6 times as much .
With low power use & charge with above - no need for charge controller .
When charging from engine running , remember that there is vary little , if any charging at idle , average  charge rate of alternators these days is 90 - 160 amps , and that only happens as higher engine RPM's , like min. of 1,300 RPM + .
Some of the biggest issues with mobile solar are not enough area to supply enough energy , or enough area for enough batteries for what most want or think .

Take over the world - put panels everywhere

Either I phrased wrong or you read wrong....I do not think that there is more voltage with the fridge plugged in!!!  That was the adapter plug that has a digital voltage reader on it!!! I'm not stupid which you are insinuating. I did admit to my brain having trouble digesting this stuff because I have been trying very hard to get a " knowledge base". People learn different ways, I happen to learn by doing. To start with....if you read my post you would see I already purchased a battery and a 12volt fridge. I traveled to the pacific nw and back and everything went great. Maybe I purchased the wrong battery but others have said I can make that work. Now I want to add solar and I AM trying to Gain more knowledge before I purchase.

 

[Bohemian scout]

Solar panels are like gathering rain from the sky you would want to put the water into a bucket that does not leak. Using this water sparingly conserving it like gold. The same with capturing energy from the sun it's a gift use it with wisdom store it in a special place.

 Thanks, but that makes absolutely no sense to me.

 

[Bohemian scout]

Ok, got my multimeter. I will use it and let you know the results. Looking forward to learning and understanding more, thanks for the help!

 

[tx2sturgis]

Well I'm impressed! Spunky responses AND you got a nice meter there...I have three of the Innova brand meters, they are nice and rugged.

Another thing I like about them is that some of them put a small load on the DC battery readings, most of the less-expensive multi-meters do not, which can lead to small errors. Mine also have a built in battery-saving auto shutoff. This is for the battery in the meter.

Anyway, pull the plastic tips off the probes, and then plug the red lead into the jack on the right, the black lead into the center jack, (the left side positive is for 10AMP DC current measurements ONLY, not DC voltage) and rotate the knob over to 20V on the left, (some of these meters actually have a 12V setting) let the reading stabilize, and then touch the red lead to the positive on the battery, and the black lead to the negative...and see what the reading is. 

NEVER turn the knob when the probes are hooked up to something, since you could accidentally damage the meter or blow its internal fuse. Always set the knob first, THEN hook up the probes to the circuit you are testing.  

It won't hurt the meter if you get the tips on the wrong battery posts, but it will let you know, it will show a negative sign. You can try it just to see what that looks like. 

We should see a reading between 12.2 and 12.6 or so if the battery has been resting for awhile, and is in good condition. 

You can also use this meter to test flashlight batteries to get some practice using it. Just set the meter to the correct DC voltage for the battery, and put the red probe on positive (top) and the black probe on the negative (bottom). Most good D or C size flashlight batteries will read somewhere around 1.6, to maybe 1.7 or so. 

Be sure to return the knob to OFF when you are done. 

A simple youtube video showing the basics is here:

 

[HumbleBeginnings]

Awesome! That meter will help you assess your battery's condition and know when it's charged and how much power your fridge consumes. What I'm looking forward to finding out is how much your battery's voltage drops over x number of days without recharging. That will help you understand your power needs and how well your current setup meets them (or doesn't).

This chart can be used as a rough guide for state of charge. It's not like having a fancy meter, but it gives you some reference points. Your goal is to never draw your battery below 50% because that will shorten its life. 



If you park at your campsite and your battery is at 12.6, then 4 days later you're at 12.3 and your trip is over, then your setup is great and you don't need anything for now; you completed your trip with battery to spare. (Honestly, this is unlikely with your current battery but was just an example.)

If you park at 12.6, and your voltage is 12.0 the next morning and you're planning to be there for 14 days... that's a problem! And your van's engine is not a very cost-efficient generator. It's low cost power when you're driving somewhere, but expensive to run just to charge up in the campsite.

 

[akrvbob]

Here's a blog post I wrote that I hope will help you understand how to monitor the batteries voltage:
http://www.cheaprvliving.com/blog/monitor-batteries-voltage/

Basically, the battery lies about the voltage. When it's being charged it reads falsely high. When power is being taken out, it reads falsely low. The bigger the charge going in or out, the bigger the lie

The only time it tells the truth is when it is rested. That means in the last few hours no power was put in, or taken out. The longer it's been rested, the more accurate it is.

So, check it in the morning before you use it and that's fairly close to what it really is.

 

[highdesertranger]

listen to what Bob said. ^ highdesertranger

 

[Bohemian scout]

Well I'm impressed! Spunky responses AND you got a nice meter there...I have three of the Innova brand meters, they are nice and rugged.

Another thing I like about them is that some of them put a small load on the DC battery readings, most of the less-expensive multi-meters do not, which can lead to small errors. Mine also have a built in battery-saving auto shutoff. This is for the battery in the meter.

Anyway, pull the plastic tips off the probes, and then plug the red lead into the jack on the right, the black lead into the center jack, (the left side positive is for 10AMP DC current measurements ONLY, not DC voltage) and rotate the knob over to 20V on the left, (some of these meters actually have a 12V setting) let the reading stabilize, and then touch the red lead to the positive on the battery, and the black lead to the negative...and see what the reading is. 

NEVER turn the knob when the probes are hooked up to something, since you could accidentally damage the meter or blow its internal fuse. Always set the knob first, THEN hook up the probes to the circuit you are testing.  

It won't hurt the meter if you get the tips on the wrong battery posts, but it will let you know, it will show a negative sign. You can try it just to see what that looks like. 

We should see a reading between 12.2 and 12.6 or so if the battery has been resting for awhile, and is in good condition. 

You can also use this meter to test flashlight batteries to get some practice using it. Just set the meter to the correct DC voltage for the battery, and put the red probe on positive (top) and the black probe on the negative (bottom). Most good D or C size flashlight batteries will read somewhere around 1.6, to maybe 1.7 or so. 

Be sure to return the knob to OFF when you are done. 

A simple youtube video showing the basics is here:

 

[Bohemian scout]

Ok, that was awesome and easy! The van has been sitting for over a week, no axuillary battery usage. The multimeter read...12.8 and when I plugged in my 12v plug adapter it read 12.3. That's good right? I have never depleted the battery, probably never below 50% because I'm careful. I paid attention even without the multimeter and now I see that the adapter plug-digital readout was good information. The longest I've camped at one place was 5 nights. It never was extremely hot, fridge was set very low, opened infrequently and kept covered. I let my van idle twice a day, maybe that helped? Anyway, hopefully this means the battery is not damaged and I can proceed. How often do I need to drive my van to keep battery completely charged? Thank you to all!!!

 

[tx2sturgis]

 The multimeter read...12.8 and when I plugged in my 12v plug adapter it read 12.3. That's good right?  

12.8 is good, but can you tell us what you mean by '12v plug adapter'?

 

[highdesertranger]

yeah that's a big drop 12.8 is great but 12.3 is not. highdesertranger

 

[Bohemian scout]

yeah that's a big drop 12.8 is great but 12.3 is not.  highdesertranger

Dang it... I'm sorry, that was supposed to say 12.28 on the multimeter and 12.3 on this multifunctional car power adapter that I have. It plugs into my 12 volt plug in and then I can plug other things into it in addition to the refrigerator. I took some photos.

 

[John TF]

1st off not intent to insult , but on the other hand when you are exploring with electronics - and do not have any metering & do not know how to use , that could be taken as insulting yourself .
I think of replying in forums as talking to more than the original , info for anyone else reading .
Since just starting here , my links were not allowed , lots of info at .
Battery University and solar seller with prices down to around $0.40 - $0.70 per watt . 
About 8 more posts & I can link .
Not getting emails - notices of replies ?  


Either I phrased wrong or you read wrong....I do not think that there is more voltage with the fridge plugged in!!!  That was the adapter plug that has a digital voltage reader on it!!! I'm not stupid which you are insinuating. I did admit to my brain having trouble digesting this stuff because I have been trying very hard to get a " knowledge base". People learn different ways, I happen to learn by doing. To start with....if you read my post you would see I already purchased a battery and a 12volt fridge. I traveled to the pacific nw and back and everything went great. Maybe I purchased the wrong battery but others have said I can make that work. Now I want to add solar and I AM trying to Gain more knowledge before I purchase.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Ok...we got it now....

Yes a little difference in readings is somewhat normal. Most of us will tend to assume the multimeter is closer to being correct. Anyway it's only a difference of 20 hundredths of a volt, (your adapter is rounding off) so no biggie.

Now we have a true baseline. 

This battery is a bit low if that is the 'resting' reading. If that is the reading with the fridge actually running the compressor, and having been operating the fridge for several hours, then it's not bad. 

Do you plan to buy a solar panel soon or is what you have now gonna be it for awhile?

 

[Bohemian scout]

Ok...we got it now....

Yes a little difference in readings is somewhat normal. Most of us will tend to assume the multimeter is closer to being correct. Anyway it's only a difference of 20 hundredths of a volt, (your adapter is rounding off) so no biggie.

Now we have a true baseline. 

This battery is a bit low if that is the 'resting' reading. If that is the reading with the fridge actually running the compressor, and having been operating the fridge for several hours, then it's not bad. 

Do you plan to buy a solar panel soon or is what you have now gonna be it for awhile?

Well I thought I was set on a battery.....I was hoping to get enough solar to keep my battery charged so I could boon dock for more days, then I found out I had the wrong battery. I'm going to go drive my van...