Solar Generator anyone use these on the road?

[lf6998]

Has anyone tried a solar generator?  Vs the traditional set up?   

Looking to power lights in small motorhome, charging pc phone, as my fridge freezer range work on propane.   May go large enough to also 
do fridge.  Previously I had it figured out how much I needed then thought this might be simpler.   Just not sure if anyone has tried them
yet other than the whole house ones which I don;t need that large.

It would be easier as no help to install solar till I get to AZ but not sure if they are good???
 
Have seen tiny ones that would not be enough but maybe a back up if I go traditional set up.  Also seen Kodiak whole house generators which is way too much....well the price is for now. 

Thank you

 

[Moxadox]

Do you have a specific one in mind? I've been looking at them...seems on one hand very good idea to integrate solar controller, inverter, etc, but on the other hand they're expensive, heavy, and bulky. I'm looking forward to seeing prices on Tesla wall coming down.

The Dire Wolfess

 

[becida]

If it doesn't come with solar panels it's a battery with an inverter in a nice looking box, some other power outlets & maybe some blinking lights. I've always thought of the term "solar generator" as a marketing term.

Go to Amazon & see what a 200w solar kit would cost you. The batteries would be extra but maybe you already have house batteries? I got 122ah batteries at Walmart for less than $90 ea.

Get a solar syetem or get a generator, maybe you need both?

Anyway, do the math...

 

[frater secessus]

The general opinion on them here is:

* they work
* they are expensive for what you get.   "it's a battery with an inverter in a nice looking box, some other power outlets" is right on target.  If van "house" power systems were coffee, these would be Starbucks.  Expensive, but pretty good if you don't want to make coffee yourself.
* the term "solar generator" is terrible and that marketing droid should be strangled.

Ok, I may have stretched it a bit on the last one.


Downsides (beside the $$$ and stupid name):  lipo batteries aren't a great match for our uses.  When fully charged they will be about 12.6 and will drop to about 9v or so.  They typically can't be used while charging.  They usually take a long time to charge.

Upside:  lighter than lead for the same capacity.  No problems leaving it partially charged.


Having said that, I recently lucked into 36Ah of these batteries-in-a- box for $99 shipped.  I used it to run a jigsaw in a park outside my van, charged some stuff off USB, etc.    I will write up my experiences with it in the next couple of months.

 

[DLTooley]

I think they are a good option for a smaller system and as supplement/backup for a larger one.

Pricing is running around $1 a watt hour now, compared to around $.30 per usable watt hour for lead acid based system.

Factor into that what is included on the ‘generator’ and the risk of battery death on the lead acid.

I’m currently looking at the Suaoki and the Imuto in the 150-200 watt hour range. The imuto saves a few bucks by not including an inverter.

 

[DLTooley]

Math error, s/b around .15 per watt hour with lead acid. 200 amp hours x 12v x .5 for usable capacity = around 1200 watt hours for around $200.

 

[becida]

I think they are a good option for a smaller system and as supplement/backup for a larger one.

Pricing is running around $1 a watt hour now, compared to around $.30 per usable watt hour for lead acid based system.

Factor into that what is included on the ‘generator’ and the risk of battery death on the lead acid.

I’m currently looking at the Suaoki and the Imuto in the 150-200 watt hour range. The imuto saves a few bucks by not including an inverter.

Why did you convert everything to watt hours?

 

[Trebor English]

Why did you convert everything to watt hours?

If you talk about amp hours and lead acid batteries that's at 12 to 12.7 volts and you know you only get half.  At lithium voltages, 9v to 12.6v, the vendors have numbers of thousands of milliamp hours at the internal cell voltages and comparison isn't possible.  

If they told you your lead acid 100 amp hour battery was 600 because there are six cells (2 volts) 100 amp hours each, you would think they are crazy.  Now add to the confusion by multiplying by 1000.  Now your battery is six hundred thousand miliamp hours.  For marketing it's a no brainer, 600,000 is so much better than a puny 100.

A box advertized as a 400 watt hour unit might include a lead acid battery like a 35 amp hour agm mobility scooter battery, $65 to $75 on Amazon.  We know that lead acid has a 50% to 70% limit that will yield long life.  If it is a lithium battery you give up 10% to 20% at the top and bottom leaving 60% to 80%.  With watt hours the unit of measure is the same regardless of battery type.  The useful loss of capacity releative to the specification is similar.  

With watt hour comparisons the marketing lies are limited to claiming twice what you get.  When they all have the same lies, you can compare.

 

[John61CT]

They have one key advantage - portability.

The easy part is a disadvantage to me, fool the user into thinking they don't need to learn about their DC electrickery.

I so far haven't seen one that lets you replace the internal battery when it fails, and they do have a short lifetime.

Most take much too long to recharge, artificially crippled.

And of course stupidly expensive.

The larger ones certainly can - and should be - compared directly apples to apples with the capacity of other types of House banks.

12V output at a steady rate for 20 hours until the BMS shuts down.

How many total AH?

Compare to the ~$1 / AH cost of good deep cycle lead, in 200+AH increments.

 

[John61CT]

Hub thread, both general ideas and links to other threads discussing specific products.

https://vanlivingforum.com/showthread.php?tid=23546

 

[frater secessus]

Why did you convert everything to watt hours?

Another reason is that the $1/Wh figure he gave is a nice round figure. He could have said $13/Ah but:

* the "generators" generally don't list their capacity that way; and
* it's not as handy to do the mental math

Sent from my BLU_STUDIO_XL using Tapatalk

 

[lenny flank]

They tend to be underpowered and overpriced.

You can piece together a much better system from components at a much cheaper cost.

 

[dklassen]

Love my Inergy Kodiak. Of course it can be used while charging (wall, solar or DC from the vehicle). Charges quick, can take up to 600w. Has an internal 90Ah Lithium and you can daisy chain on AGM's. Plenty of ports, 120v and DC. I have a 100Ah AGM hanging on it. Totally portable @ 20lbs. Built like a tank.

Expensive? Yes. Solar Generator? Who cares.

 

[lf6998]

No lead acid batteries, I have an agm as house battery now. But working a host so have full hook ups till fall. Then I will be on the road.

 

[John61CT]

Charges quick, can take up to 600w. Has an internal 90Ah Lithium and you can daisy chain on AGM's.

Do you know what lithium chemistry, e.g. LFP vs LiPo, NMC
I'd be really curious, when the lithium batt is Full, and you then connect to the AGM, no charge source active,

measuring the current flow.

I imagine with LFP it always goes from there to lead, since LFP resting Voltage is higher, even if the AGM is also "full".

And at pretty high current too, when the lead bank is at all low.

With a big lead bank only a little depleted, I bet that would drain the powerpack (right word IMO) pretty quickly.

Unless they put in circuits / gadgets specifically to prevent that?

 

[John61CT]

No lead acid batteries, I have an agm as house battery now. But working a host so have full hook ups till fall. Then I will be on the road.

AGM is one of many types of lead acid.

Perhaps you meant FLA, flooded batts, as in can use a hydrometer.

 

[Doglover]

I bought a small one to power my cpap machine through the night and it works great. I did have to buy a dc converter for my cpap machine first so that the battery would last all night. And it did.

 

[Moxadox]

Conversion to watt hours is done because that's the way battery-based electric power is quantified. More often, amp-hours, because amps are the measure of power usage.

Here is an article about the definitions of amps, watts, and volts:

http://www.newelectric.com/whats-the-difference-between-amps-volts-and-watts/

Amp-hours is a measure of how much energy a battery can store.

https://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/ampere-hour-Ah-or-amp-hour

When we talk about a solar+ battery system, we need to calculate how many amp-hours the stuff we want to run will use. Once we know that, we can select the proper batteries and then we will know how many watts of solar energy we will need to collect and store for our daily use. There are devices that will measure the total amperage drawn over a period of time, say 24 hours. Then you will know how many amps per hour that device uses, on average. Add everything up, and you will know your total energy needs.

WATTS= AMPS X VOLTS is the first formula to remember.

Hope this helps.

The Dire Wolfess

 

[dklassen]

The battery in th Kodiak is NMC. I don't fully understand the backend processing it does with the AGM but Inergy tells me the Kodiak manages everything. In fact they say once you hang an AGM on the Kodiak you should leave it dedicated just for that purpose and let the Kodiak manage the charge and discharge cycles. Not sure how they do it but it works beautifully.

 

[John61CT]

leave it dedicated just for that purpose and let the Kodiak manage the charge and discharge cycles. Not sure how they do it

DCDC charging circuitry.

> but it works beautifully

Only way to really know is to put an ammeter in between and record V & A over a 6-7 hour charge cycle.

Do they provide a link to replace the internal battery at a reasonable price when it's worn out?