Solar for Battery Pack

[MrAlvinDude]

Sounds like i should go a different route.  

Well, maybe if we just look at one challenge/job at a time, and look at thoughts and options for that one job. Then the pros and cons of each tool to use/solve that problem might become more clear, and then it might also become more clear which tool/battery solution can be used in more situations. Okay?

I'm pretty uncertain about what to do, but for the battery pack, i can just charge it up using shore power to use in an emergency.  

That plan will work - and follows the guidelines as set out by the manufacturer.

Then to run my tiny coffee maker, phone charger and lap top, i have a power inverter that plugs into the cigarette outlet...

That will work.  

You might also want to get one of those voltage indicators, so you can keep track of the voltage on your car, so it is less likely that you will over-use the power from the battery, so the car won't start.
Example 1  Example 2

By looking at the battery voltage, before you start your car, then you will quickly learn at what voltage it sounds like a challenge to start the car. 
In general, any voltage above 12V should be fine.
But things like age of battery, outside temperature, age of engine, and more, may play a role, and thus I say, that you will quickly get to know the number that is the practical limit for your particular car. 

You can then use this voltage reading as an indicator, of when to stop drawing more power from you car battery. 


These "tiny" power usage things (coffee maker, phone charger and lap top, ) can also be powered from the northerntool.com Strongway Portable Power Pack.
This tool already has a built in battery meter, so you can use it to monitor the status/voltage of the battery, and you can decide a what voltage you will stop drawing power from it, in order to give the battery a longer life. 


On both the car battery, and the Strongway Portable Power Pack, anything that runs continuously, and draws a good deal of power, like a fridge, increases the risk of draining the battery to deep.

The longevity of  lead acid batteries are influenced by how much is drained from the battery, before it is charged again. So this is why it is recommendable to keep an eye on the voltage. Voltage is not the optimal indicator, but it is simple, inexpensive and okay as a general indicator, of when to stop drawing power from the battery. 

It is still okay to connect a fridge (or a cooler) to both the car battery and the Strongway Portable Power Pack - so long as one does not consider it a "connect it and forget it" situation.  Once the battery voltage reaches that 12V mark (or what ever volt number one chooses as ones lower limit), then no more power should be drawn from the battery, if one wants the battery to live for very long. 

But it is easy to learn to keep an eye on the battery voltage. 


The Strongway Portable Power Pack built-in inverter has an internal battery monitor, that cuts off at 11V, but to my mind this is too low of a cut off limit, as it is closer to 80% or 90% of the available power in the battery, and a lead acid battery lives longer if it is only drained down to 50% of its total energy capacity. 

It would be nice if such a low-limit-cut off would also be available on the 12V socket of both the car and the Strongway Portable Power Pack. But unfortunately it is not.  So there you need to monitor it yourself. 

Solar makes my head spin.

I see.
And I think many others feel the same way. I also think this is why marketing information try to communicate it as simple as they can. 

And when you ask the solar and battery nerds and geeks on this forum, they tend to want to give you all the details, because this is how they try to avoid being tricked by those simplified marketing pieces of information. 
And then we tend to get intro internal nerd discussions. 

So I suppose that the real question is then, if we can help you take one step at a time, towards a functional and practical solar choice that will work for you.


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Other notes on the Strongway Portable Power Pack

The Strongway Portable Power Pack does not have any factory recommended ways to get re-charged, other than using the supplied wall adapter.  
So that girl you met, who had found a solar panel solution, had obviously decided to ignore that limitation, and had found a way to plug in the solar panel. 

You might be able to contact northerntool to hear if they have any recommendation, or acceptable other options that you can chose to do at your own risk. The main risk being to over charge the battery, as it should not be charged beyond it about 14.2V top limit. 

Other similar 12V Portable Power Packs might come with a 12V car adapter plug that could plug into that same DC charge port.  The Power Pack I had, did come with such an adapter, allowing the Portable Power Pack to also be charged when I was driving the car. 


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About having a jumpstart option if you simply use the car battery to run your 12V gadgets

- Strongway Portable Power Pack can do that. It weighs about 33l pounds

- The compact lithium power banks that are designed to be able to also function as jump starters, can do that.  They weigh about 3 to 5 pounds

In both cases it might be good (for us nerds)  to know what kind of car you use (and size and type engine), as this will give an indication as to the cranking (peak) amperage it is necessary for the jumpstarter pack to be able to give. 
Some times the Ah number on your car battery will also give a car-buff an indication of how many peak amps must be available to jumpstart the engine. 


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About powering a tiny coffee maker

- you car can do that, as the inverter can be plugged in. 

- the Strongway Portable Power Pack can do that, as it has a built in power inverter. 

- the lithium power packs are not suitable for this. They could possibly do it, but the Ah available at 12V are not good for powering an inverter. And only if they have a 12V output. The one previously linked to has a 10A limit (@12V) so it could at most power 100W out of the inverter (eve if it is a 300W inverter), and only do so for about 15 minutes. 



About powering a phone charger

- your car can do that. Either by using a 12V plug, or via the inverter. As energy is being lost in the inverter, it is recommended to use a 12V car adapter phone charger. Or a 12V adapter with USB out. 

- the Strongway Portable Power Pack can do that. Either by using a 12V plug, or via the inverter. As energy is being lost in the inverter, it is recommended to use a 12V car adapter phone charger. Or a 12V adapter with USB out. 

- the lithium power packs are very suitable for that, using the USB out ports.



About powering a lap top,

- your car can do that. Either by using a 12V plug-laptop-charger, or via the inverter. 

- the Strongway Portable Power Pack can do that. Either by using a 12V plug-laptop-charger, or via the inverter. 

- some lithium power packs could do that, but a match between output options of the power pack and the plug on you laptop needs to be a match. But currently it is not common to charge ones laptop from a lithium power bank. 



About cutting off the 12V power plug when the battery has reached its low voltage limit. 

It is possible to get an extension cord for the 12V car plug, that has a built-in limit-monitor, so it will cut further 12V power usage,  once the battery gets too low. 

I have however not been able to find them on amazon. 

I have only found this one and since the web site is not in english I doubt it is much help. 
But it cuts power when the battery voltage gets to 11.6V. And can handle a 5 amp load. 




I hope this (rather long text) has been helpful. 


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By the way, on my last car trip, I chose to bring one of those lithium power banks, that are designed to be able to start ordinary gasoline engines. My car was only a 2.0 liter engine, so it has a very limited cranking (peek amp) need, so even this 10000mAh unit (with a 200A cranking ability), can easily start such a small gasoline engine. 

And then I got myself one of those 12V USB plugs with built-in voltage meter, so I could keep an eye on the voltage of my car battery, and I powered everything else off my car battery. 

And for stuff that I left plugged in, when I left the car, I used one of those 12V extension cords that would cut the power once the battery voltage got to 11.6V
I never left the car long enough for it to get down to 11.6V, but it gave me peace of mind, and allowed me to run one of those really cheap 12V coolers. 


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A side note about a solar panel

I did not have a solar panel on my last car trip, but both this and this solar panel could have been plugged into the 12V car plug, that is always on, and could have been used to supplement the power of my car battery, while sitting in the front window. 
They both come with a 12V car plug. 

For this to work, being just plugged into a 12V car plug, the plug needs to have the ability to be ON, even when the ignition is off. Some cars offer such plugs. In my car I have had to install an additional plug myself.

 

[MrAlvinDude]

So I did manage to find a couple of 12V battery guards, that would cut off, when a low-battery-voltage was reached.

This one says it has automatic cut off, but I do not seem to be able to find what the cut-off voltage is. 

This one also says it cuts off. And I also can not find the voltage for the cut-off. 


This one is without a 12V plug and socket, as it is meant to be permanently installed. Can handle more amps - and has an adjustable voltage setting for when to cut off loads. 

So one could indeed install it permanently, or one could buy a 12V extension cord, cut the cord, and add this unit in the middle of the cord.

 

[John61CT]

The standard term is LVD, Low Voltage Disconnect. ACR/VSR/combiners do something similar but at a higher fixed setpoint.

For this use case I would use one with an adjustable setpoint, so you can tweak it up and down as needed.

Note that a HD unit rated for 200+A may be needed for engine cranking, but that's just for a few seconds, so you need details on ampacity vs time duration if the unit isn't rated for more than that continuous.

 

[John61CT]

Never rely on ciggie ports for anything, danger is inherent in the terrible design.

Anderson powerpole connectors for over 6A.

Note I'm just scanning your stuff not parsing closely for errors, so I think it's likely someone acting on your screeds may be creating hazardous conditions for themselves.

If you want feedback on stuff you're not certain of, start a new thread and ask one concise question at a time.

 

[MrAlvinDude]

The standard term is LVD, Low Voltage Disconnect.

Thank You. Good to know. And when doing an Amazon search, many  Low Voltage Disconnect devices does indeed show up.
But unfortunately not the ones with a 12V car plug. They seem to go under different marketing terms.

Never rely on ciggie ports for anything, danger is inherent in the terrible design.

I agree that the standard 12V car socket/plug design is not optimal, for plugging in devices or connecting wires.  

- It is notoriously unreliable for keeping a stable and reliable connection.
Especially while driving. Or even while sitting stationary (the wires could be pushed, or the plug simply becomes less well plugged in).

- If being used to the limit of the protecting fuse (typically 10A) thethey tend to warm up, and this might cause movement in the plug/socket. It is still connected, but now with a bad connection. And bad connections cause (even further) heat to develop. 


And neither situation is good, because poor connections, cause heat build up. And could eventually cause a fire in the socket/plug.


So I agree, that a ciggie port should mainly be used for less than 5 to 6 amp (max of 60 to 72 watt devices). 

But it can (on occasion) be used for more.
When used closer to the limit of the 10A fuse (closer to 120W), more attention should be given to making sure that the socket/plug does not get warm. And it should never be used at these limits for any prolonged time, and never unattended.


The ciggie ports are however everywhere, so they will be used (a lot), and for many different purposes.
So to me, it is natural to be aware of their limits, and to be wise when using them.
And part of that wise use is to switch to...

Anderson powerpole connectors for over 6A.

As the design and shape of the ciggie ports do not aid a reliable or stable connection, it is good to know of and to use alternatives, like Anderson powerpole connectors or SAE connectors or XT60 connectors or even MC4 connectors


So it is good to get reminded that there are other 12V connectors, that are much better suited for higher amp usage, than the "defacto standard" 12V ciggi connector/12V car socket. That incidentally never were designed to be a wire/device connector! And thus is definitely not optimal for that use.

It is however still very prevalent, and rather recognizable as a 12V car plug. Despite its inherent limitations and flaws.  

Note that a HD unit rated for 200+A may be needed for engine cranking, but that's just for a few seconds, so you need details on ampacity vs time duration if the unit isn't rated for more than that continuous.

Yes. In a previous post in this thread, it was mentioned that it is of importance, to have an idea about engine size and type, because many engines are indeed bigger than 2.0 liters, and bigger engines require higher cranking power from the (jump) starter battery.
So it is quite important to use a jumpstarter battery (and cables) that are rated to be able to handle that particular cranking requirements.  And thus I found it useful to mention, that it was a 2.0 liter gasoline engine, and that it was a small jumpstarter lithium battery device.

 

[wagoneer]

Get the biggest panel you can afford that u can carry.