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Optimistic Paranoid

Optimistic Paranoid

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<p>I caught a recent news report about a Maryland woman who was bitten by a copperhead in a DC park. She needed three vials of snake anti-vennin.</p><p>The bill was $55,000 dollars. If she had had health insurance, her co-pay would have been only a few hundred dollars, but her health insurance had lapsed a few weeks ago.</p><p>Back in June, there was a report about an 11 year old Florida boy who was bitten by an Eastern Diamondback Rattler. He needed 80 vials of anti-vennin. Total cost of treatment - 1.6 million dollars.</p><p>There is only one supplier of snake anti-vennin, and they charge the hospitals $2,200 a vial. But the hospitals charge 10 TIMES THAT!!!</p><p>This has prompted me to do a little more research on snakebites, snakebite kits, etc.</p><p>It turns out that all of those Boy Scout kits, Sawyer Extractors, etc. are useless, and probably do more damage than they help. Anti-vennin is the only treatment medically proven to work.</p><p>Here in North America, there are only four kinds of poisonous snakes:</p><p>Cottonmouths, Copperheads, Rattlesnakes, and Coral snakes.</p><p>Cottonmouths, Copperheads, and Ratlesnakes are all pit vipers, and the same ant-vennin is used to treat all of them.</p><p>Coral snakes are NOT, and require a different anti-vennin. BUT, so few people get bitten by coral snakes, that the sole producer of coral snake anti-vennin was LOSING MONEY making it, so they shut the product line down. Existing stocks are now all used up.</p><p>Read the Wikipedia articles on Snake Bite Treatments and Coral Snakes. For more on the news stories I mentioned in the beginning, google News Snake Bite Costs.</p><p>(BTW, while we have 4 types of poisonous snakes here, Australia has nearly 50, and the deadliest North American snake, the coral snake, wouldn't even make it into Australia's Top 20!)<br><br>Regards<br>John</p>
 
Interesting, thanks for doing the homework. &nbsp;Beats me why we are in a healthcare crisis.&nbsp;<img src="/images/boards/smilies/rolleyes.gif" class="emoticon bbc_img">
 
i was thinking about snakes going to arizona and new mexico was going to look into thanks for the info
 
Interesting info, I have grown up around western diamondback rattlesnakes and have killed hundreds.&nbsp; I have never actually seen anyone bitten, though a few animals; and western diamondbacks are rarely deadly.&nbsp; I think the odds are like 1 in 3000 will die, most just get a few days of flu like symptoms without treatment.&nbsp; <br><br>&nbsp; I watched a documentary where they basically inject horses with snake venom, let them produce the anti-bodies, then extract it from their blood to make the anti-venin.&nbsp; I was unaware that we used the same type for all three types of snakes, but am aware that a lot of people get almost as sick from the treatment as they would from a western rattler, since the human body has a tendency to reject the horse anti-bodies.&nbsp; <br><br>&nbsp; From everything I've seen and read, he is right, the snake bite kits aren't really worth it.&nbsp; Nor is having your friend/girlfriend/wife 'suck it out' lol.&nbsp; Always funny to see in the movies.
 
I wonder how many are at ankle level or below? I have heard that most animals (cows and horses) are bitten at ankle level.<br><br>IF so then leather mid boots would be in order.<br><br>James AKA Lynx
 
I was bitten on a toe by a baby diamondback many years ago. I got to an ER quickly and they tested me right away for allergy to the anti-venom. Had to wait half an hour, during which time my breathing began to be affected. That's when I started to get scared. But I didn't have a reaction to the anti-venom, so they injected it and within another half hour, my breathing was fine again. I stayed in the hospital overnight and went home. My leg swelled up past my knee and stayed that way for a couple of weeks. It ached until the swelling went down, but otherwise I was fine.
 
I worked in a trauma center for years and every spring we'd get a couple of snake bites, always rattlers. One I distinctly remember was a 19-ish year old boy who was bitten twice on the thumb. When I asked him how he was bitten, he said, "Well, I picked up the snake and it bit me." I asked, "Twice??" His response was, "Well, I dropped it, then when I picked it up again, it bit me again." so I asked him, "And why would you pick it up a second time, especially after it bit you?" and he said, "you sell the skins!"

Well, now, I've seen the prices on snake skin boots, handbags, hat bands, so I asked him, "Oh! Just how much do you get for a rattle snake skin?" he replied, "$5 a foot!", very excitedly! And I said, "So...for a five foot long rattle snake (about as long as I am tall), you get...$25?" and he said, "Yeah!!!"

My response, "Wait till you get this hospital bill!"

Others that I remember were on the lower legs, and required surgery to release the pressure on the nerves (compartment syndrome) created by the swelling. One man was bitten in his back yard. One lady near her stock tank.

Not to worry...none of them admitted to being van dwellers ;-)
 
&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;<br>&nbsp; Slight correction , the deadliest snake in the U.S. is actually the Mojave Rattlesnake ( crotalus scutulatus) there is an A type and a B type , both of them carry venomic that's both hemotoxic and neurotoxic , the A type is much worse , and they are extremely aggressive compared to most rattlers , even more so than Cottonmouths , keep in mind that other rattlers in the U.S. are strictly hemotoxic as are Copperheads and Cottonmouths.<br>&nbsp;<br>&nbsp; Coral snakes don't have true fangs as such and have to chew to inject venom , much like the Gila monster does. <br>&nbsp;<br>&nbsp; Mojave Greens will have a slight to decided greenish cast to their color , the black and white bands at the tail ( just below the rattles) will be narrower than a Diamondback ( Western) and quite distinct , your dog gets bit it's dead , your horse gets bit just put it down and save the animal the pain , you get bit you;d best get to the hospital in an hour and a half or less and hope like hell the have a stock of CroFab.
 
I am going to have to keep reminding myself to watch out for snakes when we head west. Right now, I have fairly friendly feelings about them. I am used to a black racer that apparently considers my yard part of her home territory. I frequently see her and her shed skin. Sometimes, I find her eggs - which I leave alone. Anything that eats mice and large roaches is my friend. I have lost my aversion for snakes and gained an interest in them. Not all of them are as tolerant towards humans as she is.
 
there are only 2 snakes in the U.S that you really have to worry about .....Diamondback Rattlers & Coral snakes......both attack the nervous system, you get bit ,you need help fast. your going to quit breathing and your heart will shut down just like a bad coke overedose!!......all the others your gonna get sick but unless your allergic to the venom you'll live.

to back this up I was a Flight paramedic in Florida , Georgia , Colorado & California.....seen my share of Snake bites on top of it!!.............

Look it up and remove the myth from your mind..... most snake bites require a black marker to circle the bite area and ice to slow the venom....and of course a trip to the ER to make sure your not allergic.
 
I think you are confusing diamondbacks with the Mojave green, which has been confirmed to have both neurotoxic and hemotoxic venom in most or all populations. There is a theory that snake venom in certain populations is changing, with an increase in the neurotoxic component that has long been considered miniscule in all rattlesnakes but the Mojave green, but it has not yet been scientifically proven to be true.

ETA- per recent university research conducted in California, neurotoxins have been found in the venom of several species of rattlesnakes in the US. That does not mean that all rattlenakes produce neurotoxic venom, but that certain populations of some taxa do. As snake venom is a very complicated mixture, it varies from population to population and individual to individual. There isn't a simple answer to which species do and don't produce venom that is neurotoxic.
 
Lucky mike said:
Same snake family....different region
Click to expand...

All venomous snakes in the US are the same family except coral snakes, and all but 5 species are in the same genus, Crotalus. Remove the water moccasin and copperhead, and all remaining venomous snakes in the US are rattlesnakes or ground rattlesnakes. Some populations of many species, either genus, have been found to produce both neurotoxin and hemotoxin.

Bottom line- if you are bitten by a snake with (or that should have) rattles, there are no hard and fast rules about what type, if any, venom was injected. Use you own judgement. If you are in the southwest and said rattler looked at all green or the white bands on the tail were wider than the black, get help- fast.

Lastly, a reminder that rattlesnakes are mostly active at night. When boondocking in warm weather, be cautious when exiting your vehicle, going to the potty tent, showers, etc.
 
Some years back, my sister's dog, a collie/lab mix, got popped on the nose by a small rattler. It's lucky my sister was home from work that day. She went looking for the dog and found her piled up by the fence. Rushed her to the vet. $300 of antivenin saved the pooch. But her graceful slender nose was so puffed up she looked like a bulldog for awhile!
The vet said they dosed animals by weight. Heaven help her if a horse had gotten bit!
 
This is a major concern for me when I head out west this winter. Not so much worried about myself but my pups are all hunters. Anything that moves sends them running to investigate. The big guy has killed several chipmunks and baby squirrels and has been skunked too many times to count. He will dig a hole to get anything that goes underground. Even the little ones will chase a deer or feral cat. Are there repellants to keep snakes away? Are they less active in winter? Any ideas to keep my babies safe?
 
best repellant there is!!!..................a leash!!

did you know that if your dog is spotted running deer he can be put down....
 
There are literally hundreds of deer here in the Poconos. My dogs have to be on leash when we have campers here but at 6 AM on a weekday, they love to run. There's a huge horse pasture next door and the little ones will sometimes go under the fence to chase a deer. It amazes me that something that big will run from a five pound dog. Snakes are a different story, you don't know if they are under the rock you walk past.
 
There are snake fences -- that will entrap a snake that tries to crawl through it.

This is a page that helps avoid contact with snakes.
Most info says that snakes want to avoid contact with humans and so a walking stick is helpful.
http://www.wikihow.com/Prevent-Snake-Bites
 
We have been in NM since June 2010 and have seen one snake, in the wild, dead. We've seen lots of signs for snakes. And we do go hiking in the desert & woods. Back in TN, I would chop up three or more good sized (3 ft or longer) copperheads and/or rattlesnakes every time I mowed the yard! They were attracted to the riding lawn tractor. But they ran away when we would walk thru the yard. My dog didn't like any snake so we made sure she was with the kids when they were outside so she could "tell" them where the snakes were.

I have a cousin who was bitten by a timber rattler in FL while hunting. He had to walk a mile back out to his truck then drive to a fairly nearby store before he got any help. He said it was his fault. He carelessly stepped over a log without checking it and startled the snake. Rattlesnakes do not always rattle before striking.
 
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