Slight whining while driving from the transmission - Fluid/Filter Change?

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FreeBird

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Location
Waterloo,Iowa
Picked up my 92 Vandura today, it's been in storage for 2 year's and started every month, it has 137K on it.

I'm getting a slight whining while driving from what seems like the transmission, not power steering as it's it doesn't seem to change when you turn the steering wheel, more rpm dependant.

When I finally brought it home after running errands around town, I smelt a hot smell, smelt like transmission, haven't checked the fluid because it's dark out.

I've read that a fluid change (not flush) and a new filter seems to fix this issue.

Van runs great, shifts smooth but I'm worried about the smell after taking it out and probably driving it more than it's been driven in 2 year's.

I think the van has a tranny cooler stock?

Anyone have any experience with this whine while driving?

Other than that, very happy with the van, even the AC blows cold.

Thanks! :)
 
What you heard was your transmission screaming for it's need of fluid.
Sound is most likely coming from the torque converter although it could be internal.
Heat kills trannies. If you luck out you will need at least 2 maybe 3+ quarts of fluid. That tranny takes around 12 qts. to be full. I'm guessing, from experience, you are at least 25% low. That's a lot.
I bet when you check the dipstick it does'nt even show. If trans is full of fluid you have trans problem ie: bad converter or internal.
All you can do at this point is fill trans. to full and hope noise goes away.
Trans. needs to be at operating temp b-4 checking level.
Good Luck!
 
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if that van has 135k on the odometer and has never had a tranny rebuild, and is making a whining noise. If your transmission fluid smells burnt and is not a nice cherry red color, you probably have a rebuild in your future. doing a fluid and filter change will probably not do a lot of good, and may actually be doing damage.
 
It's a very slight whine, I'll check the fluid tomorrow, I'd like to upgrade to a 4L80 anyway but keeping the current transmission would be nice.
 
deltarat64 said "doing a fluid and filter change will probably not do a lot of good, and may actually be doing damage"

This is true Freebird. If you are just low on fluid great but that's enough miles where it will need it. especially if you go traveling.
Peace of mind says consider at least a qualified inspection/adjustment if not a rebuild.
 
Because tranny fluid is a hydralic fluid ,it is also a detergent and if one takes a older/hi milage trans. that was not maintained all parts including the fluid are at the same wear level, meaning wore out, including factory specs of pressure in trans. If you put in all new fluid you can/will restore that pressure and tranny will blow.

At oil change intervals in the good 'ol days it was common to add one quart of trans. fluid to your crankcase, let it run awhile and let it clean out gunk build-up and then change oil and filter.
 
DC Fuse said:
If you put in all new fluid you can/will restore that pressure and tranny will blow.

x2. Google "tranny failure after flush". To avoid this on my older Dodge van with 150k on it, I have used a Mityvac fluid extractor to remove 2 quarts at a time every year. This is about 25% of the total and the new mixes with the old. The tranny is doing fine after 5 years and the 40k I've put on it.
 
If your transmission fails because you changed the fluid, and every thing was done right, then the transmission would not have been dependable enough for travel to start with.
When changing the internal filters many mechanics do not get it right. It is very easy to install the filter wrong. It is very easy to use the wrong fluid. All causes of failure.
There are many causes of speed related whining. Tire tread, differential, F&R wheel bearings, transmission, and wind noise.
A burning, or hot smell can be traced to an oil or fluid leak, again lots of suspects.
If you don't have mechanical experience find a friend or hireling that does.
All automatics have an oil cooler. Most are part of the radiator, some are a separate small unit in front of the radiator. Follow the two oil lines from the trans.
 
As to the cause: the OP started using it after two years storage; before that it was OK (apparently). Does this suggest anything about the cause?
 
Check for a leak at the radiator/trans cooler and check the fluid. The burning smell may have come from leaking fluid burning on the engine. Check the fluid in the trans after topping it of and run, check it again after a drive, and if the fluid looks pink


Part 2

... and if the fluid looks pink and does not smell burnt or only slightly off, you are good to go for awhile longer.
 
The failure after a flush is a chicken or the egg type of situation. Transmissions are normally ignored, and only when the driver happens to notice a different behavior from it do they think that perhaps now it is time to replace that fluid which should have been changed 50k miles ago.

They take it to the iffy lube joint, pay the 89.95 and soon after it fails completely. A problem is that a flush does not require the transmission pan be dropped and the filter changed. So the new fluid with it's limited amount of detergents, still has enough gusto to wipe some things clean and clog the filter. Filter clogged and the transmission soon fails and soon we get the flushing causes transmission failures reports.

The rumor of transmission fluid being chock full of detergents is also an old wives tail. There are no byproducts of combustion that a transmission fluid has to deal with or suspend, like a motor oil has to deal with, so they are not present in great quantities. These detergents, traditionally calcium or magnesium based are not antiwear, or extreme pressure additives like zinc or phosphorus or Moly, or boron.

A high detergent motor generally chooses either magnesium or calcium as the detergent/ dispersant, and in a virgin oil analysis, the PPM range will be from 1200 to 3500.

Here shows a VOA of a high quality synthetic Dexron 3, and it shows very little magnesium or calcium.
DexIII-1.jpg


Since Tranny fluids are much thinner than motor oils I believe this is the reason why adding it to motor oil seems to help clean things up and quieten ticking lifters. Most of the world is convinced thick oil protects better, and this is true, if it gets upto 300 degrees C, but a healthy engine will keep it no higher than 150C in the hottest parts. Thick vs thin oil can be debated forever.

One time in Baja a very old guy and his Toyota came up to my camp, asked for my aluminum cans, and for some motor oil, and by the sounds of the engine it was extremely low. I had only a half quart of oil, but I did have a quart of ATF+4, and poured both into the engine, and it just brushed the bottom of the dipstick indicating he was still very low on oil.

He came back a few days later and the engine was purring like a kitten which he attributed to the transmission fluid, and his passenger seat had one empty bottle of ATF and 2 more full. He was hoping to trade his Generic ATF for more of My Super duper ATF+4, as he was convinced it was absolutely magical.

I bet there is a whole bunch of people down there are now convinced that transmission fluid and motor oil is the secret engine sauce. When all that happens when transmission fluid is added to oils, is that the motor oil gets thinner, and its detergents, and other carefully formulated additives are diluted to a significant degree.

If a quart of TF quietens an engine, I propose that a quart of 5 weight motor oil would have had the same effect. There are no 0w-5 motor oils available yet, but Marvel Mystery Oil is pretty close to this and is loaded with solvents like chlorinated paraffins and a load of phosphorus, with is an antiwear additive. MMO has a loyal following.

I use it to clean the Stainless steel panel on my fridge, and burn some in my fuel, but I use undiluted motor oil only in my engine and ATF+4 in my transmission.

Lubegard red bottle is a respected transmission additive. Lucas Trans addis just an oil thickener, which might be enough to nurse a failing transmission along.

The OP should first check the fluid level. Note on Dodges, the level must be checked engine running, in neutral. Not sure about other makes. If the fluid is not low, then a pan drop and filter change will get about 1/3 of the old fluid out. If the Pan is ugly with large bits of metal in it, don't bother replacing it, save for the rebuild. If it is just dirty with a thin pasty ferrous sludge, clean it, replace the filter and 4 to 5 quarts of the correct fluid, and see how the transmission behaves afterward. it might like it, it might hate it. If it likes it, then another pan drop and 4 more quarts could be even more beneficial. Adding a drain plug to the transmission pan makes dropping and adding 4 more fresh quarts simple.

Van transmissions tend to give out right around 130k miles, so it might be wise to just start saving rather than the effort of nursing a weak one along for another 5k miles.
 
Clarification. It is difficult to diagnosis from afar. I'm making a number of assumptions. Typically in descriptions such as we have, the trans has a significant leak that when in contact with hot engine parts, such as the exhaust, we smell the burning fluid. The winning is from low fluid level.. Fix the leak , top off the fluid , drive, check the level , and the repair, and note the condition of the fluid. If it is a deep dark red in color and smells 'burnt' or much different than fresh ATF, then leave it alone and get the transmission replaced or rebuilt soon. If the fluid is closer in color and smells closer to that of fresh fluid, one can then service the trans and be content that no damage was done, and the trans will likely operate awhile longer without exhibiting signs of impeding failure.
 
Well, I went out to check the fluid level and it was within normal range, bright pink and looked new with no burnt smell.

Now for the embarrassing part.

I let my mother drive the van back to my house after I purchased it because I currently have a work permit because of a unpaid speeding ticket, that's getting taken care of by my next check.

When I started the van, I noticed the brake light on the dash was on, sure enough I looked down, pulled the e-brake lever and the e-brake popped back up into normal position.

I'm blown away that she didn't even notice this and I think this may explain the hot smell when she pulled into my driveway, going to check the pad's for excessive wear tomorrow, so far it stop's good.

Drove the van around the block and it does still have that slight rpm dependant whine but it's not very loud, transmission shifts very smoothly with no noticeable problems at all other than the whine.

Going to drive it to work tomorrow and see how it goes.

Thanks for everyone's replies
 
good one gsfish. sometimes when driving my mom around I have to give her the evil eye. 57 years old and my mom still tells me how to drive. highdesertranger
 
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