Shoestring Seat of the pants Solar

[iggyp]

I wanted to get the package akrvbob was suggesting for several reasons:

1. We have grown to respect his judgement
2. It's a really good deal
3. As a Seawolf alumni, I know I can trust Sourdough logic

What I wanted and what happened were two different things. We ended up full time kinda hurried and not fully planned. As my father used to say, we had to "sh** and git". We currently have a early Eighties class C, and the house battery died without a way to recharge. We know and are moving to LED lighting today, but yesterday is what I wanted to discuss here.

We did not have a stationary mailto address yet, and could not afford the time wait. Also, we are using backyard engineering skills at the moment, so we went the Harbor Freight route, since we know we can expand into the grown up kit once we get this figured out.

We have a 24 series 12v deep cycle battery that is really at the moment only handling the light electric part of my propane fridge, the overhead lights, and I think that is about all it is doing. I plan on tacking in an inverter like akrvbob has discussed on his page, the Cobra 400W.  Right now all of my work is by telecommute, so as I look at my Roxie right now, she is in full sun, and could be recharging.

I picked up the 15W single panel with a smaller charge controller to trickle charge the battery. But first, I want to get a handle on this and try to use the panel to charge my phones and things that seem to never properly get charged.

I know I will need to move to a full 200W-400W system, but right now I am learning the system, and the toy setup with high reviews for doing what I am doing with it seemed to be the best in a crunch. Has anyone else had to go this route?

 

[66788]

Used solar panels are everywhere and offer the most bang for the buck. I just picked up a Siemans 75 watt panel, new in the box for $20.00 at a second hand store.

I don't think you will get much service out of 15 watts unless it's to keep a float charge on a stored vehicle.

100 watts seems to be the minimum useable size for what we do. 200 watts works great in my Dodge high top, and the step van will have over 500 watts.

Let us know how this 15 watt panel works for you.

 

[VanDwellerMod]

Welcome to the CRVL forums iggyp!

To help you learn the ins and outs of these forums, this "Tips & Tricks" post lists some helpful information to get you started.

We look forward to hearing more from you.

 

[iggyp]

Used solar panels are everywhere and offer the most bang for the buck.  I just picked up a Siemans 75 watt panel, new in the box for $20.00 at a second hand store.

I don't think you will get much service out of 15 watts unless it's to keep a float charge on a stored vehicle.

100 watts seems to be the minimum useable size for what we do.   200 watts works great in my Dodge high top, and the step van will have over 500 watts.

Let us know how this 15 watt panel works for you.

Yeah, that was partially my concern. I know I have to upgrade pretty quick, and at least this might keep the battery from total death. I am looking forward to learning this rig and getting everything working the way we need. I will have to look harder for the secondhand stuff.

 

[WheelEstate USA]

Hi Iggy...that 15 W panel is only going to maintain a charge on a full battery.
I have not read Bob's recommendation, but I will offer mine for a pretty effective starter system you can easily build on. 

I started with a Renogy 100W kit, sans the little blinking light controller. Instead, I got their PWM30CC-LCD 10 function controller for a few extra bucks. I got a 122ah Wally deep cycle battery for $100 (not true deep cycle, but pretty damn good).
I found a good 12V/USB port at Wally's for $10 and wired it in (fused) with 12g landscape cable.
Have a 400W inverter but never found need to install it...I use a ciggie plug-in 80W for laptop.

Now, there are those who will dispute this, but it has worked perfectly and the battery is as happy as when it was new. Its a good system to not only learn with, but to also expand on in the future. 

You can call Renogy direct (909) 287-7100 and they will take good care of you...and ship free.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

...
We currently have a early Eighties class C, and the house battery died without a way to recharge. 

You need to get your battery recharged ASAP, not good to leave in uncharged state.  Either find someone with a good (the more amps the better) battery charger or use your Class C's alternator to charge.

...
I picked up the 15W single panel with a smaller charge controller to trickle charge the battery.

15W panel will give you ~ 1 amp per hour = ~ 5 amp-hours/day.  Good for charging cell phone, doubt it would ever get your battery back to usable condition.

I know I will need to move to a full 200W-400W system, but right now I am learning the system, and the toy setup with high reviews for doing what I am doing with it seemed to be the best in a crunch. 

66788's advice is good: see if you can find a used panel.  See if Fex Ex or UPS will let you pick up at their location, if you want to order panels or controller.

--  Spiff

 

[iggyp]

Ah, I should have pointed out that I replaced the dead battery outright. I didn't try to recharge it. This Mickey Mouse setup is to keep it topped off until I can get a real handle on this rig we've bought.

I pretty much agree with everything that's been said. Thanks!

 

[SternWake]

Ah, I should have pointed out that I replaced the dead battery outright. I didn't try to recharge it. This Mickey Mouse setup is to keep it topped off until I can get a real handle on this rig we've bought.

I pretty much agree with everything that's been said. Thanks!

A flooded group24 battery, even those top quality brands made By Trojan or Rolls Rurrette, Crown, EastPenn/Deka, or USbattery, will only have half the cycle life of a True deep cycle battery like  Trojan T-105 or a T-1275, all factors being equal.

A wally world marine battery, made by johnson controls, in group 24/27/29/31 size, or any flooded/wet group 24 size sold in auto parts stores will only have half the cycle life as the 4 brands listed above, all factors being equal. 

Just outright replacing a battery drawn dead is certainly a strange approach for someone trying to save money.  Whether the previous battery could have been restored to some usable function with a proper charger bringing it  to absorption and equalization voltages for the time required is certainly debatable, and obviously without such a charging source available,  there is no chance.

A 15 watt HF panel is really scraping the bottom of the barrell.  I'd not expect more than 12 watts from it, and as said it is not going to be enough to actually be able to even shallowly cycle the battery to which it is attached.  15 watts is more of a maintainer, to keep a fully charged battery, fully charged.  It likely cannot fully charge a depleted group 24 battery, ever, no matter how long it is attached to an unused battery, and certainly not one which has been abused by sitting discharged for any period of time.

If one is actually driving, daily,  does not have solar or grid/generator power to recharge and not using the alternator to at least restore some charge to a house battery, then one is shooting themselves in the foot.  The alternator properly wired can quickly recharge a battery to the 80% charged range  fairly quickly, but that last 20% is always going to take 4 or more hours no matter how powerful the charging source might be.

One does not need to obsess over battery recharging perfection, but at the same point one should not expect a battery to endure being depleted and kept in a partial state of charge, never reaching full charge, or for very small charging sources to be able to replace much more than the battery's own self discharge.  Partial state of charge cycling of lead acid batteries is Batterycide.  It can kill marginal quality batteries within 100 cycles, and this is the fault of the discharger, not the battery.  Even top quality batteries are damaged by partial state of charge cycling, the difference is the top quality battery when charged fully, and equalized, has a much better chance of regaining the lost capacity.

Often in an  manufactured RV there are many small parasitic loads on a battery, and 15 watts are not even enough to counter these.  Manufacturers also usually skimp on proper wiring and batteries.  If they can save 5$ on Copper and 30$ on batteries, you can bet they did.  Upgrading RV manufacturer 'frugality' is often expensive.  Keep taking small steps to get only 50% to the doorway, and one will never get to the threshold.

 

[highdesertranger]

well I started with a 15watt panel back in the mid 90's, but I was only running a RV water pump and a portable AM/FM short wave radio. it worked because the battery was charged when I drove. I still have that panel a Siemens and use it for a battery maintainer. highdesertranger

 

[iggyp]

well I started with a 15watt panel back in the mid 90's,  but I was only running a RV water pump and a portable AM/FM short wave radio.  it worked because the battery was charged when I drove.  I still have that panel a Siemens and use it for a battery maintainer.  highdesertranger

That sounds about where we are at. We were (and for the moment, are) so heavily mobile we couldn't really get all we wanted. Right now we are only using it for the interior LED lights we put in, and we don't really use those much since we have been parking in rather well lit areas as we move. The other thing is that it keeps the propane fridge working in some manner I am currently uneducated on. And in very limited doses, a 300W inverter.

I really am looking forward to about 200-400W (or more) later. I appreciate your kinder, gentler response which is more useful to me, and hopefully we will see you in the near future.

 

[Canine]

I would recommend that you not waste any more money on HF panels.When I started 8 years ago they were the cheapest per watt panel.At 1 time I had 18 of them.They are amorphous panels and lose about 1/3 of their output the 1st yr.Buy you a couple of good Renogy or other good panels and another WallyWorld battery.When I started I had 6 WW deep cycles.I used them for 3 yrs and they were all still .in good shape except one.Pick up a $15 controller and you are in business.Or if money is real tight,just buy the one panel and controller.Hope this helps.

 

[WheelEstate USA]

Hey there Guy...What are you charging (battery), and what are your demands.
I gave away one just like that...wasn't worth the space to keep it.

 

[WheelEstate USA]

Laughing so hard at myself...did not expand the pic on my small screen before my reply
Too funny

 

[highdesertranger]

hahahaha, Guy that's to much. highdesertranger

 

[iggyp]

This is the setup that I've been using.

Guy

Rofl. Nice. 

 

[iggyp]

I would recommend that you not waste any more money on HF panels.When I started 8 years ago they were the cheapest per watt panel.At 1 time I had 18 of them.They are amorphous panels and lose about 1/3 of their output the 1st yr.Buy you a couple of good Renogy or other good panels and another WallyWorld battery.When I started I had 6 WW deep cycles.I used them for 3 yrs and they were all still .in good shape except one.Pick up a $15 controller and you are in business.Or if money is real tight,just buy the one panel and controller.Hope this helps.

I won't be. My next ones will be Renogy. But at least I am now more confident in what I'm doing.

 

[iggyp]

Experiment resolution... this is a craptastic answer that doesn't cut it. Worked for the front battery to keep topped, but HFT is full of horse hockey when they claim this will maintain a deep cycle. Spend the extra $50 or so and just go to the Bob kit for 100W.

 

[jimindenver]

My first solar goof was a pair of solar fans. I quickly found out that the internal battery when charged was good for minutes on high and the panel alone could barely run it on the useless low setting. Luckily they still work off of rechargeable AA's or can be plugged into a USB. I tried using the Panel to charge up a phone but the best I could do was get the phone to run off of the internal battery of the solar cell, better than nothing I guess.

 

[iggyp]

Well, the good thing about it all is that I know much more than I did before, so bring on the Renogy kit! And, since I paid with a card, I was able to return it all for cash on the other side of the country.