Search & seizure legalities?

[SalsaDog]

I just finished some update reading on Bob's blog page, pertaining to info when stopped
by an officer. As for search & seizure legalities, what are the laws in regard to our campers
or converted cargo trailers?

 

[SoulRaven]

I think this can vary wildly by locality.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

In theory, a separate trailer SHOULD be immune from any roadside search without a warrant.  Since you can't reach any weapons locked away in one, the police can't claim they needed to search it for their personal safety.

While I thought Bob's blog post was spot on, as far as normal law enforcement goes, he didn't mention the Border Patrol, who seem to have - or at least claim for themselves - more search power than ordinary law enforcement can claim.

See:

https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights-governments-100-mile-border-zone-map

https://www.aclu.org/constitution-100-mile-border-zone

http://www.acluaz.org/sites/default/files/documents/ACLU Border Rights ENGLISH_1.pdf

Regards
John

 

[Canine]

I use a small safe to keep important things in it. Cops need a search warrant for that no matter how or where you live.

 

[MK7]

In general, if you allow them to search....they will wreck the hell out of your rig w/o much care in the world, looking for drugs. So don't let them and don't give them probable cause.

 

[Colorado Slim]

I just finished some update reading on Bob's blog page, pertaining to info when stopped
by an officer. As for search & seizure legalities, what are the laws in regard to our campers
or converted cargo trailers?

What is it you have to hide? a weapon? dope, or worse?  it's a tuff issue, cops have to have Reasonable Articulable Suspicion to detain you first, then they need consent to search, then a search warrant. Most times, they will try to gain consent to search...........you should always say no.........then they say do you have anything to hide? you say no, just don't feel the need for you to search my ride. It goes on and on............sure they can say they'll get a dog, but it gets into a legal issue when they detain you...........most times, be polite, if you really have nothing, you can give consent, but I would ask what they are looking for, and if it's dope, ask if they are working interdiction and if so, what DEA Group they are working with............it's all about attitude,...............be cool and most times, they have to send you on your way rather timely.............Spoken from experience.  Lesson here is.................don't carry any illegal shit.

 

[ccbreder]

There is a debate going on in Philadelphia, the home of the liberty bell, about s&s. The police in Philly can seize any money on suspicion, and you have to go to court to get it back.

 

[MK7]

  if you really have nothing, you can give consent, but I would ask what they are looking for, and if it's dope, ask if they are working interdiction and if so, what DEA Group they are working with............it's all about attitude,...............be cool and most times, they have to send you on your way rather timely.............Spoken from experience.  Lesson here is.................don't carry any illegal shit.

Even in this case, I don't think I'd let them search neither.  Vandwelling is pretty much a hidden sub-culture and most people don't understand it, including many cops, I bet...especially the Rookies.  If I weren't on here to know about it, I'd think that Vandwellers are homeless or criminals if I'd see them at Walmart....the very least shady people.  My van, with all the setup to live in and camping equipment, would probably make someone think of a rolling meth lab, like in Breaking Bad.

Here's a vandwelling girl who CONSENTED TO A SEARCH in Virginia.....it didn't go well for her b/c they ransacked her van, right in the street. She's not very bright and has a ton of bad advice, but her good advice is to not consent to searches because she did, once.  This part is at 5 minutes 10 seconds.

   

I would just be polite while asserting my rights.  Another interesting strategy is to watch the TV show, COPS.....I love this show....but on the educational side, it shows you how cops interact with people.....very, very, very telling.  And this is with cameras rolling for a 10+ year old show, so these cops are on their BEST behavior....and they're probably the cream of the the crop.  Alone, 2am in an empty parking lot.....you may get an asshole cop. I say mount 1 or 2 old smartphones and put them on record for such encounters.

 

[MK7]

They may trash your vehicle, find nothing and let you go. Or, if they don't like you or are covering themselves, they may go ahead and plant the bag one of them had in their pocket...

This ruse is so common nationwide it can only be described as standard operating procedure. I learned about it over 30 years ago from a cop who was a good friend at the time. Everyone involved - cops, prosecutors, defense attorneys, judges - they all know the score. They play along, too.  Every damned one of them.

Sorry, but I don't believe you that LE is this corrupt. I'm sure it happens, but not on such a large scale like you're implying. I've been followed and pulled over a few times b/c I was driving in the 'hood and around known drug trafficking areas. The Cop saw that I wasn't high or anything.....and believed my story and let me go.

Here's one where the motorist doesn't consent to a search and was driving with a fishy registration/plates that didn't come back under his name.....drug dog sent for, didn't alert to anything.....the Cop didn't even cite him for the plates...he could have at least issued a work order which would have forced him to come back to the State to get it signed off after fixing it.

 

[USExplorer]

Because I dress conservatively and keep my hair short, cops rarely bother me about drugs.

I've gotten my rig searched twice; once when I tried to enter Canada, and another time when I had several violations of New York state gun laws on open display, unknowingly (I'd just left New Hampshire). Neither time did the officials ask to search my car. If they ask, refuse consent.

 

[GotSmart]

How many videos of Cop helps homeless, Cop buys boots for man, food for unemployed...

You only look for the bad, you only find the bad. 

I have talked my way out of so much trouble ~~~ I am amazed at the fact I was never arrested.  :angel:

There are some bad apples, but not as many as the internet claims.  (You can believe everything you read on the WWW!)  :dodgy:

 

[buckwilk]

Are there bad cops? Yes. Bad parents? Yes. Bad governments? Yes. Bad people? Yes.

 

[GotSmart]

Are there bad cops? Yes. Bad parents? Yes. Bad governments? Yes. Bad people? Yes.

Bad dogs, bad gas, bad mexican food, bad movies, bad foot odor, bad attitude, bad mushrooms, bad jokes.  ~~~

That does not mean that everything is bad.

 

[MK7]

Sorry if  was unclear. I never meant to imply this ruse was employed EVERY time there was a traffic stop.  That would be too much work.

However, it IS employed nationwide whenever and wherever a cop really wants to search your vehicle(s).

As to LE corruption, a few google searches along the lines of "police misconduct" "police brutality" "police corruption" will keep you in reading material for months. You seem to like youtube for evidence, so go there and start some searches with "cop shoots..." after which you can add in words like "dog" or "kid" or "man".

When you get bored with the shootings, you can start all over again with "cop beats"...

After you spend a few hours watching that stuff and a weekend reading some google search results, get back to me regarding the integrity of American law enforcement.

And no, I don't like any of this one bit, but willful ignorance will only make this nation's bad problems worse.

Been there, done that. The internet is not a new thing you know.

And I should hope that you didn't mean EVERY cop, because it would only take 1 good one to prove you wrong. I've heard of a hyperbole before too.

 

[akrvbob]

We all know there are bad cops, but in this forum we do NOT do cop bashing here.

I've deleted a couple posts and will any more, then the thread will be closed.

We're here to help each other in constructive ways, let's stick to that. Asset forfeiture is a serious problem and we need to talk about it. Spreading hate about cops won't do anybody any good.
Bob

 

[USACelt]

In My eyes, Cops deal with the worst of the worst 99% of the time. Bad guys lie and deceive to stay out of jail. I am assuming cops are expert at detecting deceit and lies. If you act or look the part your going to get trouble.
I am not pro or con cops, they have a job to do.

 

[66788]

In general, if you allow them to search....they will wreck the hell out of your rig w/o much care in the world, looking for drugs. So don't let them and don't give them probable cause.

When questioned by the police I give them my ID and necessary documents.  I don't answer questions but I am polite at all times.   Most people think they can BS a cop and they dig a hole with their own mouth.

NEVER let them search a vehicle.   Especially when they say "If you have nothing to hide, why don't you let us search your vehicle?"  Smile and tell them that you do not consent to a search.

After 28 years of practicing law in California, I've seen just about every scenario.

I'm not anti LEO, just anti giving them more power than the Constitution grants to them.

 

[66788]

Even in this case, I don't think I'd let them search neither.  Vandwelling is pretty much a hidden sub-culture and most people don't understand it, including many cops, I bet...especially the Rookies.  If I weren't on here to know about it, I'd think that Vandwellers are homeless or criminals if I'd see them at Walmart....the very least shady people.  My van, with all the setup to live in and camping equipment, would probably make someone think of a rolling meth lab, like in Breaking Bad.

Here's a vandwelling girl who CONSENTED TO A SEARCH in Virginia.....it didn't go well for her b/c they ransacked her van, right in the street. She's not very bright and has a ton of bad advice, but her good advice is to not consent to searches because she did, once.  This part is at 5 minutes 10 seconds.

   

I would just be polite while asserting my rights.  Another interesting strategy is to watch the TV show, COPS.....I love this show....but on the educational side, it shows you how cops interact with people.....very, very, very telling.  And this is with cameras rolling for a 10+ year old show, so these cops are on their BEST behavior....and they're probably the cream of the the crop.  Alone, 2am in an empty parking lot.....you may get an asshole cop. I say mount 1 or 2 old smartphones and put them on record for such encounters.

She was at the RTR in Quartzsite in January of this year.   

She parked next to me and seemed like a nice gal.

The general consensus is Just Say No!

 

[66788]

In My eyes, Cops deal with the worst of the worst 99% of the time. Bad guys lie and deceive to stay out of jail. I am assuming cops are expert at detecting deceit and lies. If you act or look the part your going to get trouble.  
I am not pro or con cops, they have a job to do.

They can do their job, or they can do a job on you.   It all depends on your attitude during the encounter.   You control your own destiny.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

NEVER let them search a vehicle.   Especially when they say "If you have nothing to hide, why don't you let us search your vehicle?"  Smile and tell them that you do not consent to a search.

I'm thinking of smiling and saying; "Sorry. I've got friends who are lawyers, and they've told me to never, EVER, consent to a search. So, NO!"

Technically, it's the truth, cause you're my friend, right? :shy: