Ring terminal / lug antics
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SternWake
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Soldering vs crimping can and will always degrade into a pissing match.
One of my stubborn elderly friends wants me to(eventually) set up a dual battery system using 0awg, but insists on soldering the ring terminals.
My HF crimper will not do thick walled 0awg ring terminals unless I grind out some dies to a larger size, But watching him try and feed finely stranded 0awg into the Lug with molten solder was an impressive nightmare, and the result extremely ugly. With burnt insulation and many strands doing a Medusa thing around the lug.
After the fourth Lug I suggested we use a strand of wire to compress the 0awg so it would fit easier into the lug with molten solder, and then got a somewhat acceptable appearing result.
But the flexible welding wire has wicked up so much solder, that it was extremely stiff and made some crackly noises when it was flexed about 3 inches from the Lug.
We had made these cables for charging a parallel pair of group 31s AGMs with 100 amps. We drained them to abut 50% and then applied those 100 amps. I followed the wires with my IR temperature gun and found the best looking soldered ring terminal, was getting the warmest of any point on the charging circuit, not at the lug itself, but an inch or 2 away from lug, where the crackly noises emitted when flexing it.
The terminals on the 100 amp adjustable powermax charger/converter were would only accept 4awg, and we destranded the 0awg to fit, then tinned it and filed its bottom round for maximum surface area in the terminal, and these stayed cooler than one the soldered lug Did.
If I had not busted out the IR gun when it was passing 100 amps we would have remained blissfully unaware of the resistance. But the temperature increase was not vast, not nearly enough to present a danger to the insulation, and he chose to ignore it anyway.
That video made it look so simple. I guess it would be if the wire was not so finely stranded it puffed out when the insulation was removed.
Still takes longer than crimping with the clunky Harbor freight one.
I find covering stranded wire with solder to be cathartic, but I will stick with crimping big wire terminals, and smaller ones I will do either or both depending on application.
One of my stubborn elderly friends wants me to(eventually) set up a dual battery system using 0awg, but insists on soldering the ring terminals.
My HF crimper will not do thick walled 0awg ring terminals unless I grind out some dies to a larger size, But watching him try and feed finely stranded 0awg into the Lug with molten solder was an impressive nightmare, and the result extremely ugly. With burnt insulation and many strands doing a Medusa thing around the lug.
After the fourth Lug I suggested we use a strand of wire to compress the 0awg so it would fit easier into the lug with molten solder, and then got a somewhat acceptable appearing result.
But the flexible welding wire has wicked up so much solder, that it was extremely stiff and made some crackly noises when it was flexed about 3 inches from the Lug.
We had made these cables for charging a parallel pair of group 31s AGMs with 100 amps. We drained them to abut 50% and then applied those 100 amps. I followed the wires with my IR temperature gun and found the best looking soldered ring terminal, was getting the warmest of any point on the charging circuit, not at the lug itself, but an inch or 2 away from lug, where the crackly noises emitted when flexing it.
The terminals on the 100 amp adjustable powermax charger/converter were would only accept 4awg, and we destranded the 0awg to fit, then tinned it and filed its bottom round for maximum surface area in the terminal, and these stayed cooler than one the soldered lug Did.
If I had not busted out the IR gun when it was passing 100 amps we would have remained blissfully unaware of the resistance. But the temperature increase was not vast, not nearly enough to present a danger to the insulation, and he chose to ignore it anyway.
That video made it look so simple. I guess it would be if the wire was not so finely stranded it puffed out when the insulation was removed.
Still takes longer than crimping with the clunky Harbor freight one.
I find covering stranded wire with solder to be cathartic, but I will stick with crimping big wire terminals, and smaller ones I will do either or both depending on application.
DannyB1954
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I don't understand why people want to put the wire into molten solder. For the solder to actually adhere to the copper, the copper needs to be hot. Pushing cold copper into hot solder leaves a chance for poor adhesion. I put the wire in, heat up the lug, then let the copper melt the solder and it runs down into the cavity. No chance the copper or lug will be too cold.
GotSmart
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Personally, I only use fire as a last resort. Too much chance of causing a problem.
I must have plumbed 40 houses and business in coper pipe, Clean, flux, set, then wick the solder in place.
On electrical, nothing beats a hydraulic crimp.
I must have plumbed 40 houses and business in coper pipe, Clean, flux, set, then wick the solder in place.
On electrical, nothing beats a hydraulic crimp.
Vanada
Well-known member
Seeing BradKW's thread on the hydraulic cable crimpers reignited my thoughts on this. I've placed an order for the crimping tool SternWake linked on the first page since it ships to Canada too! I still haven't made up all of my cables, have the extra (so-so quality) lugs and a bit of wiggle room in most of the wire lengths... Round two! Ding ding!
Of course, I already spent around $35CAD on those lugs and could spend $60CAD more on Ancor marine ones to really do it right. Still on the fence since that would be a bitter pill to swallow.
Of course, I already spent around $35CAD on those lugs and could spend $60CAD more on Ancor marine ones to really do it right. Still on the fence since that would be a bitter pill to swallow.
Vanada
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Currently I'm looking at having 4 terminals on the positive stud so am thinking about getting a bus bar. The one I can find locally meets requirements apart from the fact that it has 1/4" studs to my 5/16" ring terminals. Would I be committing a cardinal sin by using oversized terminals? I know it says not to on that web page all about terminals and crimping buuuuut...
highdesertranger
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nobody ever mentions military terminals? they will handle 2 cables no problem. the bolt is 3/8". they are low profile, they come in lead and various other alloys depending on the application. boots are also available. I just want to let everyone know there are options to those silly marine terminals that auto parts store sell.
highdesertranger
highdesertranger
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Vanada
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highdesertranger said:
That would still involve two and two on the studs and my battery post is threaded so I'd have to find something that was compatible. Still prefer to go with the bus for neatness personally.
So is there any danger in an oversized terminal hole or am I just being overly diligent?
Vanada
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SternWake said:
DC loads = Max 15A
Inverter = Max 58.82A (600W inverter with which I'll probably never go to 600 but anyway; (600w / 12v / 0.85) = 58.82 )
Solar = Max 30A
Battery isolator = ??? (This is one part I don't fully understand yet.)
The bus bar is this one:
https://www.westmarine.com/buy/blue...-4-20-studs-with-cover--14122428?recordNum=18
They have one with 5/16" studs but it costs more and the cover isn't included. Plus it's rated to 250A which is overkill for what I need. However, it literally just hit me that I would need heavy gauge cable connecting the battery to the bar and that's just more aggravation at this stage. Perhaps I'll just stack the 4 terminals and forget about the bus bar for now.
SternWake
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The 4 terminals can be stacked, but they will need to 'starfish' to sit flat. Don't bend them tightening the Nut.
Lots of people overtorque connections on battery terminals then they leak fumes from there instead of the caps and the terminals corrode much faster. So on a new battery with new nut, finger tight then half a turn more or so.
The battery isolator from alternator potentially has the ability to deliver the alternator's full rated current, though this is unlikely and the duration very little.
YOu can add to/upgrade the system later. 5/16 inch ring terminals on 1/4 in studs is not ideal, nor is it the end of the world nor chernobyl waiting to happen. People get away with far worse connections. Check for excessive heating under higher amperages, rectiffy quickly if necessary.
Lots of people overtorque connections on battery terminals then they leak fumes from there instead of the caps and the terminals corrode much faster. So on a new battery with new nut, finger tight then half a turn more or so.
The battery isolator from alternator potentially has the ability to deliver the alternator's full rated current, though this is unlikely and the duration very little.
YOu can add to/upgrade the system later. 5/16 inch ring terminals on 1/4 in studs is not ideal, nor is it the end of the world nor chernobyl waiting to happen. People get away with far worse connections. Check for excessive heating under higher amperages, rectiffy quickly if necessary.
Vanada
Well-known member
I'm currently trying to make an order from this site and these lugs I'm looking at seem like the real deal, made by a company called Panduit. What's interesting through is that they have quite a short barrel allowing for only one crimp. Is this bad?
http://ca.mouser.com/Search/Product...6-Lvirtualkey64400000virtualkey644-LCAX4-56-L
http://ca.mouser.com/Search/Product...6-Lvirtualkey64400000virtualkey644-LCAX4-56-L
SternWake
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Proper ring terminals for battery connections do not have that open ended gap that can allow corrosive gasses to get inside and work their evil.
I've used those in your link, as home depot sells them, but after crimping,
I cover the gap with solder
http://www.genuinedealz.com/cable-lug-tinned-copper-ring-4-awg-gauge-stud-size-1-4-inch
I've used those in your link, as home depot sells them, but after crimping,
I cover the gap with solder
http://www.genuinedealz.com/cable-lug-tinned-copper-ring-4-awg-gauge-stud-size-1-4-inch
Vanada
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SternWake said:
So these would be a better bet?
http://ca.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...=sGAEpiMZZMvz8LftK4jerrlbgsxB8qPHWMypZK1Av8Q=
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