Removable Neoprene Insulation

[Sdd3080]

I am in the planning stages for a DIY camping van conversion.  On the east coast with lots of  humidity. Rather than doing a super job on insulation and a water vapor barrier, I was thinking of using a flexible close cell foam with magnets that I can put in and remove. Plus a fan and a couple of butterfly vents. In looking at foam options, I saw neoprene and thought it might be a good choice. In all of my research I haven’t seen anyone do anything like this so I am hoping for some feedback.  I know neoprene is more costly than other foam options, but the flexibility seems worth it.

 

[John61CT]

Of course something is better than nothing.

But the key is a sealed envelope, no missed gaps, preventing any thermal infiltration around the edges.

I suppose overlapping and lots of strong magnets may do it, but hard to visualize.

Also need to cut your ventilation openings first.

generically, "closed cell elastomeric flexible sheeting", many industrial uses in building construction, mainly for pipes and HVAC ducting

Neoprene Foam, EPDM Foam, SBR Foam, EPDM/SBR Blended Foam or EPT Ethylene Propylene Terpolymer

Brands: Ensolite, K-Flex Insul-Sheet

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I would stick to rigid foam, ideally polyiso,

cut precisely so it just fits against each other, maybe velcro in spots where needed to hold up against the metal

too thick for even super magnets?

and cover with Glidden Gripper + duck canvas to strengthen and protect it when removing / reinstalling.

See tnttt.com "foamie" subforum

 

[jonyjoe303]

neoprene doesnt look thick enough to insulate. I would also go with the rtech foam insulation. Its thicker but the insulation it provides is the real deal. But to make it removable you might have to reinforce it with cardboard so it doesnt fall apart when removing it. 
They sell industrial velcro that has double sided tape, can hold up to 10 pounds, will easily hold foam.

I run a swampcooler in my van year round and never had any problems with water/vapor/mold inside my van, the rtech foam seems to be resistant to that.

 

[highdesertranger]

I would also keep in mind that neoprene is NOT UV resistant at all. highdesertranger

 

[MrNoodly]

But the key is a sealed envelope, no missed gaps, preventing any thermal infiltration around the edges.

But there are still air vents allowing thermal infiltration/exfiltration.

 

[John61CT]

Yes of course, there should be **lots** of ventilation, much more than they build in.

But that is controlled, turned on and off as desired.

What I'm talking about is eliminating as much as possible any uncontrolled gaps in the insulation envelope, not just convection but conduction, thermal bridging.

Get a thermal infrared camera in very cold weather, fire a Mr Buddy up for 30 min and you can see all the places where the heat is escaping the fastest.

 

[DannyB1954]

Neoprene like in a wet suit is fairly heavy. Camping mats might be lighter. under my carpet i used those interlocking floor mats that they use in shops and garages. I glued them down and together. My thinking was that I would be on my knees and didn't want a hard floor, and those mats would hold less moisture if there ever was a spill.

 

[Almost There]

Neoprene comes in both open cell and closed cell versions so be careful what you get if you do decide to go that route.

Truthfully, after 40+ years of owning vans all over the continent, vapor barrier is grossly overrated. You are far better off planning on opening the doors and windows to allow for exchange of air than trying to plan and install a vapor barrier.

I tried unsuccessfully to find the R value for closed cell neoprene. If any one can supply it rated by the thickness of the neoprene it can then be compared to more commonly used insulation materials on a cost/value basis.

 

[max+sophia]

If any one can supply it rated by the thickness of the neoprene it can then be compared to more commonly used insulation materials on a cost/value basis.

Does this <a href=https://www.thefoamfactory.com/closedcellfoam/closedcellfoam.html">Foam Factory</a> site answer any of the questions?

 

[Almost There]

Nope!

Drilling down to the data sheets for closed cell neoprene yielded all kinds of interesting data but nothing on the R value.

I suspect it's kind of low unless you add layer upon layer and then the weight of it becomes a negative factor. Wet suits are heavy!!

 

[max+sophia]

Drilling down to the data sheets for closed cell neoprene yielded all kinds of interesting data but nothing on the R value.

 
I sent an email to the company asking for R values on all their products.  If I get an answer, I'll post it here.

 

[MrNoodly]

On the east coast with lots of  humidity.

Insulation and/or ventilation won't do anything about humidity, only temperature control. You need to dehumidify, either with impractically huge amounts of desiccant or with a dehumidifier, like air conditioning. Run your vehicle AC every so often. Or do the generator-operated AC unit sticking out the window. Or do a solar powered AC unit like the one in Bob's recent videos. Or move to a drier part of the country.

 

[John61CT]

Neoprene is not generally used for space insulation, it is not intended for that.

So many cheaper more effective materials available.

You are far better off planning on opening the doors and windows to allow for exchange of air than trying to plan and install a vapor barrier.

For your situation maybe, but not for those boondocking in snow with a heater

or those running aircon.

That is where good insulation is important.

Those in milder conditions, especially if your life situation permits moving to another area, not so critical.

 

[Sdd3080]

Thanks for all the replies. Looks like I need to back to the drawing board. I’m still thinking removable without vapor barrier but re-thinking material. I’m hoping I can get the insulation value to be “good enough” so that a small heater and air conditioner could be sufficient in not-to-extreme weather.

 

[Panda]

I'm extremely interested in a modular insulation implementation, I'll be camping on the slopes during the winter but returning back to the bay for the rest of the season. I have not yet come up with a solution to remove all my insulation as I prefer a bare shell outside of the cold.

 

[John61CT]

Completely removable custom rigid panels would be a challenge but do-able.

You need a place to store them of course.

Why do you want to remove them though?

 

[Panda]

In the summer, I'll be located in a fairly temperate location, 60s-70s, so at nights, I prefer to cool the van down as quickly as possible, insulation seems to hold on to that warmth for a bit longer so I prefer to live without it. 

Have you seen removable panels? I went to the hardware store today and looked at some polyiso boards, I suppose I could connect some hinges together but any idea how to keep them connected to the frame? Large magnets perhaps?

 

[max+sophia]

any idea how to keep them connected to the frame? Large magnets perhaps?

Are they too heavy for velcro?

 

[highdesertranger]

if you remove the insulation where will you put it? highdesertranger

 

[John61CT]

In the summer, I'll be located in a fairly temperate location, 60s-70s, so at nights, I prefer to cool the van down as quickly as possible, insulation seems to hold on to that warmth for a bit longer so I prefer to live without it. 

Have you seen removable panels? I went to the hardware store today and looked at some polyiso boards, I suppose I could connect some hinges together but any idea how to keep them connected to the frame? Large magnets perhaps?

I meant DIY, I would make sure some back protection keep the polyiso from getting moist or beat up, glue the inner lining like luan.

Maybe have built-in shelving, lights with quick-disconnect.

But really, that reasoning does not justify all the trouble.

You need high-CFM ventilation like MaxxAir anyway, that will make the interior temp equal to outside in 2 minutes.

Insulation is not thermal mass like adobe or water drums.