Questions about insulating

[MargaretA]

Right now there are a couple of good opportunities locally with cargo vans. I've been mostly looking at passenger vans or cheap small RVs, mostly because of the insulation issue which is already taken care of with those. But these two cargo vans are tempting me. So I thought I'd try and get this issue resolved so I can either rule out cargos - or buy one.<br><br>I'm sure there's information out there but I haven't been able to find it, so first I'll ask if anyone can direct me to more info on 1) what choices would I have for insulating a cargo van and 2) how is it done. But I'd also like to know:<br>- How physically demanding is it? Is there a lot of heavy lifting needed?<br>- Does it require any specialized tools?<br>- Does it need more than one person to do? I don't think I'm the only one who's had to do this by themselves. (or at least I hope I'm not)<br><br>I tried searching on YouTube for videos but all I found that I could understand was a demonstration of a new material made of carded wool batts. It looked manageable to me, and as a handspinner I'm partial to wool anyway. But the company is in the UK and I'm not sure I'd want to pay for shipping here even if they did it (I haven't checked). And I think I'd kill my own drum carder trying to make enough batts to insulate a van.<br><br>So - if anyone would like to share their own experience with this or point me in the direction of more information I'd be really grateful.<br><br>Meg<br><br>

 

[vonu]

Right now there are a couple of good opportunities locally with cargo vans. I've been mostly looking at passenger vans or cheap small RVs, mostly because of the insulation issue which is already taken care of with those. But these two cargo vans are tempting me. So I thought I'd try and get this issue resolved so I can either rule out cargos - or buy one.<br><br>I'm sure there's information out there but I haven't been able to find it, so first I'll ask if anyone can direct me to more info on 1) what choices would I have for insulating a cargo van and 2) how is it done. But I'd also like to know:<br>- How physically demanding is it? Is there a lot of heavy lifting needed?<br>- Does it require any specialized tools?<br>- Does it need more than one person to do? I don't think I'm the only one who's had to do this by themselves. (or at least I hope I'm not)<br><br>I tried searching on YouTube for videos but all I found that I could understand was a demonstration of a new material made of carded wool batts. It looked manageable to me, and as a handspinner I'm partial to wool anyway. But the company is in the UK and I'm not sure I'd want to pay for shipping here even if they did it (I haven't checked). And I think I'd kill my own drum carder trying to make enough batts to insulate a van.<br><br>So - if anyone would like to share their own experience with this or point me in the direction of more information I'd be really grateful.<br><br>Meg<br><br>

<div><br></div><div>I had my second van insulated with reflectix and fiberglass. &nbsp;It ended up with everything ripped out, and bare walls, just as I've left the third one. &nbsp;I think of it as a metal tent on wheels.</div>

 

[sl1966]

<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; ">

I had my second van insulated with reflectix and fiberglass. &nbsp;It ended up with everything ripped out, and bare walls, just as I've left the third one. &nbsp;I think of it as a metal tent on wheels.

</span><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; "><br></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; ">Why?</span></div>

 

[vonu]

<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; ">

I had my second van insulated with reflectix and fiberglass. &nbsp;It ended up with everything ripped out, and bare walls, just as I've left the third one. &nbsp;I think of it as a metal tent on wheels.

</span><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; "><br></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; ">Why?</span></div>

<div><br></div><div>The fiberglass loaded up with condensation in the winter, and wound up tearing away from the outer walls and the inner luan panels, icecicle-like.</div><div>It is like a tent in every way, just made out of metal, and mobile.</div>

 

[triumph]

In order to insulate my cargo van I had to go through 9 different levels of hell.&nbsp; I spent at least 8 hours on my hands and knees inside the van shoving pink panther insulation into the tiny holes in the walls.&nbsp; Did I mention pink panther insulation is the most vile substance on earth and that it will get on your skin no matter what you do and make you itch ?&nbsp; Don't think you can just take a nice hot shower to wash it off. That'll just give the fiberglass particles a chance to seep further into your pores <img src="/images/boards/smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0" align="absmiddle">&nbsp; Cold showers are the only way. &nbsp; I eventually crammed nearly 3 rolls of insulation into the walls then finished it off with gap filler foam.&nbsp; <br><br>The ceiling was even more trouble.&nbsp; After I taped up the wiring I taped up two layers of foam board insulation.&nbsp; Layer 1 was 1/2 inch and layer 2 was 3/4 inch then plywood over that.&nbsp; Don't forget to put sealer on your plywood first.&nbsp; Then I installed 3x recessed LED lighting domes. &nbsp; None of this was particularly expensive but then again I already had a good drill and the tools to cut and sand plywood.&nbsp; If you already have the&nbsp; tools you can probably get it all done in 2 full days.&nbsp; <br><br><br><br>

 

[Night_Sailor]

Spray foam is easy to use, just don't get it on you.&nbsp; The thicker the better, but even an inch is good.&nbsp; The difficulty is trimming it back as it expands.&nbsp; I use a saw after it dries.&nbsp; Sawing is pretty easy.&nbsp; Also for the ceiling, if you can frame some extra depth to make it thicker that helps.&nbsp; Finally, put a roof rack with some solar panels keeps the sun off the roof and allows air to flow between these--that keeps things cooler too, and the panels work better. <br>

 

[Butternut]

<br>- How physically demanding is it? Is there a lot of heavy lifting needed?<br>- Does it require any specialized tools?<br>- Does it need more than one person to do? I don't think I'm the only one who's had to do this by themselves. (or at least I hope I'm not)<br><br>

<br><br><font face="Courier" size="3">Hey Meg, just an FYI for you: My local Home Depot rents equipment so if you need something for just the day check that out. </font><br>

 

[edshrodes1955]

<P>if you use reflectix, would a moisture barrier stop the condensation or foil? surely there is some brainiac out there who knows.</P>

 

[edshrodes1955]

<P>hi!, i'm ed ,i'm a newbie and that is my birth year. yes, i'm very old. i've been reading all the forum articles and the posts. i wasn't being glib about the brainiacs on this site. some of the videos on building and designs of vans are really smart and well thought out. i've been wrestling with this insulation question for a month. construction people don't know, lowe's ppl don't know.so, who out there has the definitive answer?</P>

 

[Wild_E]

In my box truck/camper I used Durofoam for the ceiling. Bought at Home Depot it has shiny insulation on one side, and a film on the other side. I installed it shiny side in for the reflecting properties of the material.&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>In the heat of summer it dropped the temp of the roof from 135 deg far to 95 deg&nbsp;Fahrenheit. &nbsp;I am now using metal tape, they type that is wound around pipes, plumbers metal tape to take the gaps in the insulation and to cover the gaps from the ribs. I have found it to be warmer than the Refletix insulation, though the&nbsp;Refletix&nbsp;is great for corners and rounds.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>The Durofoam is all that I have on the ceiling and parts of the walls, it reflects the heat from the heaters right now, and the interior heats up real fast.</div>

 

[Seraphim]

<P>vonu<BR><BR>Sounds like you could have sealed your original van better.<BR><BR>Some good thoughts here, and this is more of a summary:<BR><BR>1.&nbsp; Use a spray can of expanding foam sealer to seal all the openings - from the inside of the van -&nbsp;that would permit moisture to come in from the outside. <BR><BR>2.&nbsp; Personally, for the floor, I'd use a couple of layers of carpet padding, with a good tight weave carpet on top. We did so in our first van, and slept on the floor in a sleeping bag lol. Not shag, which accumulates junk, but something like a Berber. Laying down plywood sheeting first would add insulation value.<BR><BR>3.&nbsp; Next depends on how professional you want the inside to look. You can use an industrial strength spray adhesive to glue insulation to the metal walls<BR>- something like rolls of house insulation would be easiest, I think. If&nbsp;it has foil backing, put the foil to the INSIDE of the van. Then use a wide moisture-resistant&nbsp;tape to tape the foil sided&nbsp;seams together from the inside. If the insulation has no foil backing, &nbsp;cover it with a sheet of plastic after insulation.&nbsp; (The foil backed is much easier.)<BR><BR>This doesn't cover building a framework to attach paneling to, for a finished look.<BR><BR>Condensation in the insulation occurs when moist air moves through from the outside, and moisture is deposited from the air onto the insulation.&nbsp;The foil or plastic barrier (even when placed the inside)&nbsp;prevents that air movement, so the insulation stays dry. (House building theory 101 lol).<BR></P>The above instructions were aimed at a bare interior van. To add insulation to a previously finsihed interior would be a major PIA (pain in the neck) in my opinion: you'd have to take the interior out then try to reinstall it over the added insulation.<BR><BR>

 

[Wild_E]

Yes, forgot about the floor.<div>My truck had wooden floor so that part was easy, if you have metal, than plywood is your friend or wooden planks.</div><div><br></div><div>I removed everything recently and am rebuilding. The floor has a good quality underpad, and I have put 3 layers of dense throw rugs ontop. I went with through rugs for a few reasons, and the throw rugs were very dense material. The top one is a wool - poly blend.</div><div><br>The difference in the temps from the areas with the 3 layers to the areas with only 2 layers is quite impressive.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Most of my walls have insulation with a covering of plastic as a vapour barrier so there has been no issues with moisture there yet at all.</div>

 

[4x4tour]

<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgb(247, 247, 247); ">Use a spray can of expanding foam sealer to seal all the openings - from the inside of the van -&nbsp;that would permit moisture to come in from the outside.&nbsp;<br></span>

<div><br></div><div>Just remember NOT TO USE expanding foam INSIDE vehicle panels, as it blocks the factory panel(s) condensation/water drain holes.&nbsp;</div>

 

[Seraphim]

<P>OH yeah - make sure the rubber door seals are all functional, as well. No point in doing all that work and having drafty doors lol.</P>

 

[Dreighen]

wow, I'm overwhelmed <img src="/images/boards/smilies/frown.gif" border="0" align="absmiddle"> lol

 

[Seraphim]

<P>No point in being overwhelmed.&nbsp; I tend to go into too much detail and over explain. <BR><BR>The air pockets in insulation trap warm air and use it as a buffer to keep interior air warmer longer. That's why insulation works. Any air moving through the insulation pulls out the warm air and replaces it with cold (reduces efficiency of insulation).&nbsp; Moisture fills in the air pockets so it can't hold warm air (same reduction of efficiency - no air pockets, no insulation value). You want the insulation to stay dry, and seal everything to protect it from cold (or wet)&nbsp;air moving into the insulation.</P>The vapor barrier does both: keeps water out of the insulation (from the inside) and acts as a 'wind' barrier as well, keeping colder moving air from pulling the warm air out of the insulation.<BR><BR>Anything to accomplish those goals&nbsp;- dry and wind proof air pockets&nbsp;-&nbsp;is a positive thing. Thicker insulation has more air pockets, so a higher R value. <BR><BR>If the rubber seals on your vehicle doors - or windows - are bad, cold [and/or wet] air can get in your vehicle and rob the warm air.<BR><P><BR>This help?<BR><BR>Works for cold weather clothing layers as well.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp;<BR></P>

 

[akrvbob]

I've lived in 3 different vehicles for 10 years (6 years in Anchorage, AK) and every vehicle was insulated with sheets of styrofoam. It's cheap, easy to work with, has a high R value per inch, it's light and water resistant. It has tremendous advantages and practically no disadvantages. I suggest either the pink or blue stuff in 3/4 inch thickness. But the white is easier to find. It will easily bend to the curves of the van. If you want more R value, use multiple layers. Bob &nbsp; <br>

 

[Seraphim]

I got this thread confused with the one about very cold temperatures...

What temps do styrofoam work for you, Bob? What are you heating with?

 

[johnny_canuck]

<font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial">I just posted my Coleman heater set up with photos on my "Simple Survival Expedition" thread, post #117.</font>

 

[High Plains Drifter]

And also I guess a person cannot smash the corning fiberglass insulation into a more shallow area. For example a 4 inch thick corning into 3 inch or less thick area. He would lose the warm air pockets therefore lose the warm air and the insulation would not insulate. <br>