Question regarding dispersed camping in a vehicle

[Requ21]

I have read the post about dispersed parking in the Boondocking and stealth parking drop down list on this site.

I'm curious though, how does this work with a vehicle? Sorry if this is a really dumb question. My state has only 1 NF, and thus far as I assume is normal, most of the areas require you to camp atleast 100ft from the trail. Am I misunderstanding something, because it seems as if pulling my car 100ft off the trail would be in clear violation of Leave no Trace.

I couldn't find a section to put this in, so I hope this is alright.
Requ21

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

You need to contact the people running the National Forest you are interested in.  They can provide maps of the forest service roads and tell you which areas are open to camping and which are not.

http://www.fs.fed.us/about-agency/contact-us

Regards
John

 

[Suanne]

I've had success finding dispersed camping within a National Forest in a couple of ways.  1) Going online to that particular NF site to download and study their MVUMs (motor vehicle usage maps), and 2) Going into the district ranger's office and just asking about dispersed camping for someone in a passenger car.  Often I do both.

 

[masterplumber]

My experience is that generally in dispersed camping areas you will find established camp sites just of the forest roads/ trails. I was told once by a forest ranger that you are allowed to pull off the road anywhere up to 100 feet to set up camp. The caveat is you can't go anyplace marked closed, and you can't do unacceptable damage. Now some people would say even leaving tire tracks is unacceptable, but generally this means tearing up wet lands and things like that. Even when being visited by forest rangers or game wardens I've never had an issue when parked on hard surfaces and keeping a clean camp. I used to hunt in an area where our camp required us to cross a short marshy area. We used PSP mats to drive across. We were visited by a forest ranger one day, and he thanked us for using the PSP mats, but asked us to not camp there in the future as it encouraged others to drive across the area without taking precautions. It was a reasonable request as we had seen where others had driven across and done damage. The next time we went there the forest service had put up signs across the wet area posting it for no vehicle access.
While there are a few eco - nazis working for the forest service, my experience has been that most are reasonable people that are just trying to make sure the forest is protected for all to enjoy.

 

[rvwandering]

I looked at the link for Mark Twain NF dispersed camping and most of the official dispersed camping sites are along hiking trails and at boat in areas but there are a few that are listed as recreation areas that you can drive into. Try some of these places first to get a feel for it then you'll be more confident about finding spots on your own. After awhile you'll be able to spot potential sites by using MVUMs along with satellite view on Google maps.

 

[Canine]

And remember to follow the time limits on stays and don't make it look like you are "living" there, or you may get tossed and/or fined regardless of how many days you have been there.
Actually "living" in a dispersed campsite isn't legal, per their regulations.  They are peace officers (the real rangers) and thus can cause a lot of difficulty for you.  Just play buy their rules.  You sound like you are the rule keeping sort so shouldn't have any difficulty.

MP had good advice to keep your camp clean and don't leave tracks.  Remember what the Rangers usually see, beer bottles or cans strewn all over, illegal campfires, trash dumps...  You want to be the "camper" that he thanks...
***************

From the BillingsGazette.com website, Jun 28, 2015: Dispersed Camping...

In addition to Forest Service land, dispersed camping is also allowed on Bureau of Land Management property, which is common in Eastern Montana. BLM sells maps at its district offices. BLM lands are colored yellow and sometimes pink on maps, Forest Service lands are green and state lands are blue.

Camping on state lands is OK within 200 feet of a road and is limited to two days. The catch is that campers need to purchase a State Land Recreational Use Permit from the Department of Natural Resources and Conservation. Many hunters may already have a permit, since they are mandatory when buying a hunting license.

Some rules

Even if you are going to be a “rough it” camper, there still rules and etiquette to follow. First and foremost is to not camp within 100 feet of a lake or stream in national forests. That increases to 200 feet on BLM lands. On forest land, do not drive more than 150 feet off of designated roads to reduce damage to the forest.

Secondly, pack out what you pack in — that includes all garbage. Try to leave the site looking as undisturbed as possible.

On federal lands, campers are allowed to stay for 14 days. On Montana state lands there is a two-day limit.

It’s often illegal to camp close to an improved facility, like a campground, trailhead or picnic area.

To go to the bathroom you will have to dig what’s often called a “cat hole.” Dig the hole at least 6 inches deep and keep it 100 feet away from any lake or stream. Pack out your toilet paper. There’s nothing worse than finding someone’s discarded toilet paper littering the woods. Cover up the cat hole and try to make the ground look like it had before you dug the hole.

Likewise, campfires can be built within a dug-up patch of ground, saving the topsoil to cover the ashes to extinguish and hide the fire from future campers. Always make sure to carry a bucket for hauling water to douse the fire.

Read more: http://billingsgazette.com/lifestyl...ites-offer-alternative-to-crowded-campgrounds
************************

See, there are state lands you can dispersed camp on as well yet they have their own rules. Did you see that in Mt, there is a 2 day limit for stays? Lots of potential "gotcha's"...

Let us know what you found, if you have any internet service that is!

D98

 

[WriterMs]

Saw someone mentioned Mark Twain NF, so I checked your profile and see you are in MO. Well, you are in luck with LOTS of free camping through Missouri's Conservation Areas.

Tony and Karen had provided this link in another thread on free camping in the MO/AR border area. It is a map crowded with Conservation Area icons -- you just click on one and read what is allowed at that area.

http://mdc.mo.gov/discover-nature/outdoor-recreation/camping

For most all dispersed camping (especially in the well-used eastern half of the country), you will SEE evidence of where others have camped -- rock firerings, a well-worn pull-off for parking, etc. It will be easier than you imagine, I'm sure.

You asked about pulling off MORE than 100 feet because you are in a car with lower clearance than many larger vehicles, I believe. But in many cases you must park closer to that from the road as Dusty's reply illustrates.

 

[Requ21]

You asked about pulling off MORE than 100 feet because you are in a car with lower clearance than many larger vehicles, I believe. But in many cases you must park closer to that from the road as Dusty's reply illustrates.

When I said pulling off more than 100ft, I just meant that from what I understand in general the rule is to dispersed camp, you are required to be "atleast" 100 feet from the trail/forest road.. so that is what I was referring to with that comment.


Thank you for everyone's information! There are 2 forest service offices in the city I live in... being that we are a ways from Mark Twain, I'm not confident that they will be of much help as far as getting MVUMs or things of that nature... but since one is about 5 minutes from where I work, I figure it can't hurt to stop by.. at nothing else they can tell me who to call.

 

[Ella1]

I got Motor vehicle use maps for all but one national forest in my state from one office. They happened to have run out of that one. When you go to that office, ask what they have. Mine were free.

 

[Requ21]

Awesome thanks!

 

[wayne49]

I have read the post about dispersed parking in the Boondocking and stealth parking drop down list on this site.

I'm curious though, how does this work with a vehicle? Sorry if this is a really dumb question. My state has only 1 NF, and thus far as I assume is normal, most of the areas require you to camp atleast 100ft from the trail. Am I misunderstanding something, because it seems as if pulling my car 100ft off the trail would be in clear violation of Leave no Trace.

I couldn't find a section to put this in, so I hope this is alright.
Requ21

I was also confused by the requirement to camp off the road by 150 feet in a NY SF. 

I asked the Ranger about it and he replied the 150 feet requirement is for people with tents and packing their gear in that far off the road up a trail to camp.

It does not apply to vehicle camping. The Ranger said he would definitely prefer that no vehicles were driven off road on the trails.

Wayne

 

[Canine]

Thanks for helping clear that question up.  There's no substitute for talking with the Rangers.  It's their "beat".  It's getting more and more common here in AZ, especially up in Flagstaff in the Coconino NF, for camping to be restricted to designated campgrounds.  The era of just pull over and get out your lawn chairs is about gone, there anyway...  Some for good reason.

From the online CNF website:
"When dispersed camping (or "car camping") on the National Forest, refer to the designated camping corridors shown on the Motor Vehicle Use Map. In these designated corridors, visitors may drive their vehicles up to 300 feet from the road to car camp (here's a sample of what those designated areas look like on the map). Also, visitors may park alongside any designated road's edge and walk to their campsite anywhere on National Forest System lands, except where specifically prohibited as indicated in closure orders. When parking along a designated road, drivers must pull off the travelled portion of the roadway to permit the safe passage of traffic. These rules only affect motor vehicle use. Forest visitors can always hike to campsites at farther distances from the roads."

Distances vary, but the established "camping corridors" are to be used, not just anywhere...
There's also a restriction of camping within 1/4 mile of a watering hole or other animal watering location.  That could get you if you don't look around...
"4. No camping within one-fourth mile of a wildlife watering tank/hole. (Arizona Revised Statutes § 17-308: "It is unlawful for a person to camp within one-fourth mile of a natural water hole containing water or a man-made watering facility containing water in such a place that wildlife or domestic stock will be denied access to the only reasonably available water.")

 

[akrvbob]

I have heard of some roads closing to dispersed camping, especially down by Sedona, but it's actually still very easy to dispersed camp in the Coconino. I've never had a problem and I do it every year.

You may be thinking of their very strict enforcement of the 14 day rule. I've heard of them dropping by every few days to remind you of the days you have left.
Bob

 

[Requ21]

I have heard of some roads closing to dispersed camping, especially down by Sedona, but it's actually still very easy to dispersed camp in the Coconino. I've never had a problem and I do it every year.

You may be thinking of their very strict enforcement of the 14 day rule. I've heard of them dropping by every few days to remind you of the days you have left.
Bob

Coconino looks gorgeous, it's always been on my list of places to go... Unfortunately as of now I've never been West of Tulsa.

 

[Requ21]

After a call to the head office of Mark Twain NF, it looks like dispersed camping in a vehicle is completely out of the question around here, I was told that vehicles can't be driven off the road into the forest..

I guess I need to modify my plans.

 

[Ella1]

"very strict enforcement of the 14 day rule. I've heard of them dropping by every few days to remind you of the days you have left."
Do campers need to sign in someplace then, or is it that the rangers are that watchful?

 

[WriterMs]

After a call to the head office of Mark Twain NF, it looks like dispersed camping in a vehicle is completely out of the question around here, I was told that vehicles can't be driven off the road into the forest..

I guess I need to modify my plans.

You have dozens and dozens of options! I think you may have the wrong "picture" of what dispersed camping is -- especially in the east. You are NOT looking to drive far off the road at all -- they would not permit that! The dispersed campsites will be ALONG or at the end a forest road. That road may be gravel or dirt or whatever. It is only tent campers who may be required to walk farther away from the road. I think you and the head ranger were just mis-communicating because you have the idea of driving into the woods where there is no road.

A quick search for Mark Twain National Forest and then clicking on Camping and Cabins gets you a list of types of camping-- and "dispersed" camping is one option. Click "dispersed camping." There are a bunch of places listed with directions on how to get to each. Here is the link to the page with the list -- just see which is the area you want and click that link to read the specific directions.

http://www.fs.usda.gov/activity/mtnf/recreation/camping-cabins/?recid=21644&actid=34

Also, in an earlier post, I provided a link to Missouri's conservation areas. These are in the woods and often have lakes or streams. You can camp for free at almost all of them.

Just take a drive to the nearest area to you --- especially on a weekend -- and you should SEE people camping or see where they have camped legally.

 

[akrvbob]

"very strict enforcement of the 14 day rule. I've heard of them dropping by every few days to remind you of the days you have left."
Do campers need to sign in someplace then, or is it that the rangers are that watchful?

No permit is required, it's just regular dispersed camping. They are just that overzealous.

To be fair Sedona is a very popular area and a lot of homeless try to live there so strict enforcement is required. But they carry it a little too far. 
Bob

 

[Requ21]

You have dozens and dozens of options! I think you may have the wrong "picture" of what dispersed camping is -- especially in the east. You are NOT looking to drive far off the road at all -- they would not permit that! The dispersed campsites will be ALONG or at the end a forest road. That road may be gravel or dirt or whatever. It is only tent campers who may be required to walk farther away from the road. I think you and the head ranger were just mis-communicating because you have the idea of driving into the woods where there is no road.

A quick search for Mark Twain National Forest and then clicking on Camping and Cabins gets you a list of types of camping-- and "dispersed" camping is one option. Click "dispersed camping." There are a bunch of places listed with directions on how to get to each. Here is the link to the page with the list -- just see which is the area you want and click that link to read the specific directions.

http://www.fs.usda.gov/activity/mtnf/recreation/camping-cabins/?recid=21644&actid=34

Also, in an earlier post, I provided a link to Missouri's conservation areas. These are in the woods and often have lakes or streams. You can camp for free at almost all of them.

Just take a drive to the nearest area to you --- especially on a weekend -- and you should SEE people camping or see where they have camped legally.

This makes so much more sense... I guess my picture of dispersed camping was more similar to what I see from people in the West.

 

[akrvbob]

The way it works out west is you drive down a BLM or National Fores road until you find a spot your vehicle can fit in beside the road. How far off the road you can go varies by area. The three most common rules are

1) One Vehicle length
2) 30 feet
3) 300 feet.

I was just in the Bighorn NF in Wyoming and asked a Ranger about a specific road I wanted to camp on and he said it was a great spot with 4g signal and a great view. But it's often full and if it was I could just pull over and park in the grass. That's exactly what I did and he came down the road the next morning and we visited again and had a pleasant conversation. He gave me some great photography tips for the area.

I've been in Wyoming for 2 months and every night has been dispered camping in some incredibly beautiful spots.
Bob