Propane tank: where to buy, who to install?

[ascii_man]

So when converting a van (mini or regular), what kind of a shop will install a propane tank?  I called a propane dealer who referred me to RV dealers.  The first said they didn't work on motorized units (they sell trailers), the second sounded kind of clueless "uh, you'd have to bring it in and we'll look at it".

gowesty.com sells propane tanks (e.g., http://www.gowesty.com/ec_view_details.php?id=23916): anyone know of a better supplier?

I guess I could consider doing it myself, but it will be my first time dealing with propane, I don't have a garage, and it's cold.

 

[Canine]

Ahhh, you have a "big open sky" garage. I have one of those! lol. I feel your pain, bro.

You will be finding out that when you do something differently than what most people do, you are going to get a lot of funny looks. Try not to let a bunch of small minds stop you from at least making a genuine effort.

Where I'm at there are a lot of co-ops that sell propane. If you ask around at more legitimate places, you will likely eventually find someone that is knowledgeable like you and is able and willing to install a tank on your rig. It's easy to do if you have the experience and knowledge.

RV dealerships are expensive. I'd try to avoid that.

The Schwans trucks here are all propane. You may want to stop one of the drivers and while buying a tub of orange sherbert (yes, I spelled it "sherbert because that is how I pronounce it thank you very much), ask for the office number or if they know who works on their rigs. That mechanic may have the knowledge and willingness you need. If you are lucky, they may have a used tank that would work for your application, but I doubt that. Anything they have would probably be much too large. Still worth a try.

 

[SoulRaven]

I'll be watching this. I couldn't make it happen in time this winter but I hope to make some progress towards it before next winter. I'm told there's a place that does custom RV stuff, but I'd need to bring in my minivan in person to talk with them about it and get a quote. Good luck and keep us updated!

 

[eDJ_]

You may find this Youtube video interesting.  It walks you through the process and will give you some idea of what a professional instillation would encompass.




Mother Earth News Magazine DIY article.

http://www.motherearthnews.com/green-transportation/propane-car-conversion-zmaz72mjztak.aspx

 

[johnny b]

From your posts it sounds like this is a planning session for a first time effort....and that you have a limited budget.
Get a 20 pound bbq tank, a milk crate (or build a wooden box), a hose of required length, and put it near your stove location. Secure all with some good bungee cords.
Keep a spray bottle with soapy water in it and test for leaks every month. Now you have propane and have spent less than 50 bucks.
If you get a Mr. Buddy heater, check out their quick connect feature...a couple of fittings and you can easily switch between heat and cooking.

With under body mounted tanks you are locked into getting refills at a refill station....bbq tanks can be exchanged if need be.
Under body tanks are vulnerable to rocks and other road hazards, so ground clearance is very important, not to mention the plumbing needed to go through the van floor.
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Edit

OK I just looked at that video eDJ linked to.............

are you looking for propane as a fuel to run the van??  or using it for food and heat??

 

[BC Guy]

Under body tanks are vulnerable to rocks and other road hazards,

Under body tanks have thicker walls and a much longer life span than 20#ers.

 

[johnny b]

Under body tanks have thicker walls and a much longer life span than 20#ers.

I'm certainly not suggesting putting the bbq tank under the van....
ascii_man has been talking mini van and low budget...i think a 20# tank inside would be a much better way to begin....just IMHO.

btw--unlimited free exchanges on 20# (just paying for propane after initial $30)...can't get a life span much longer than that.  

 

[BC Guy]

btw--unlimited free exchanges on 20# (just paying for propane after initial $30)...can't get a life span much longer than that.  

You do realize that you are paying a premium to do a swap rather than just getting a refill.
In this area, last I noticed, you could find places that would fill a 20 for $18CDN. The cheapest I have noticed a swap is over $23CDN.

 

[johnny b]

Yes, well aware of the slight loss on an exchange....here in the DC area a swap is 20 bucks, but you only get 3.5 gallons instead of the full 4.7.
I would always recommend a refill over an exchange....but when the tank expiry date rolls around, that's when ya make an exchange!

btw...does Canada allow the 'short fill' of the exchange tanks? the exchange places here will try to tell you that they are filled to 80% for safety reasons, but that's just B.S.. when a 20 pounder is filled with 4.7 gallons of propane the tank still has the required 20% safety margin.

 

[BC Guy]

I don't know. I have never done an exchange. The only thing I need propane for at the moment is my RV.
The last time I had a 20#er expire there were no swaps. I bought a full reconditioned one for $15 less than new ones were selling for.

 

[BradKW]

I've read a few build threads in other places that incorporate underbody propane tanks on Sprinter and Transit vans...I could probably locate them again if you'd like.

One thing that's come up in most discussions is ease of access to refill the tank. Apparently what might appear to be a good location/orientation initially, has turned into a constant source of knuckle-busting or ergonomic frustration. A recommended option is some sort of remote fill extension that allows more freedom with tank placement and lets you locate fill point as more desirable spots.

Everything I've seen has been DIY installs and the skill level needed isn't that high. In your situation, I'd think that if you did the research, had a plan and bought the parts, it would be pretty easy to get someone to fab the brackets and a shadetree-type mechanic to bolt it together while you provided direction.

 

[ascii_man]

From your posts it sounds like this is a planning session for a first time effort....and that you have a limited budget.

Yes and yes: oh how you pierce into my soul! Between the other thread and doing some driving around and calculations, I have abandoned the minivan and am going full-size. But my budget for the year is $6k, including acquisition, and around $100/month for parking and insurance. I have already bought a Thetford Curve toilet, a good OBD-II scanner, and tread depth checker.

Get a 20 pound bbq tank, a milk crate (or build a wooden box), a hose of required length, and put it near your stove location. Secure all with some good bungee cords.
Keep a spray bottle with soapy water in it and test for leaks every month. Now you have propane and have spent less than 50 bucks.

If you get a Mr. Buddy heater, check out their quick connect feature...a couple of fittings and you can easily switch between heat and cooking.

My dearly beloved grandfather had a healthy skepticism about gas appliances; interestingly, when he was visiting my mom when my father and I were visiting his family, our gas furnace developed a crack. Thankfully, someone had bought a CO detector, but nobody installed it. So shortly before leaving, I cut open the package, installed the battery, and put it back on the stairs. So I'm trying to honor his memory by being fanatical about propane safety. Also, I hear cops don't like to see nonconforming installs like that.

But I might have to use a portable cylinder temporarily. I'm more concerned about the heater; I'd prefer the Vented Cat, but I think the individual who makes them is busy right now.

-----------------------------------------------
Edit

OK I just looked at that video eDJ linked to.............

are you looking for propane as a fuel to run the van??  or using it for food and heat??

I was a little confused at that too: I have no desire to use it for propulsion; definitely heating and possibly also for a little cooking.

 

[IGBT]

I did our entire propane system on our homebuilt truck camper RV.   It runs the furnace, water heater, and stove.

I use a 2 stage regulator at the tanks, which feeds into a solenoid controlled by a propane leak detector.  This is the way boats do it and how commercial RVs would do it if they were not built so cheap.

I used a manometer to check for microscopic leaks over a 24 hour period and I occasionally check the system with it.

I use three of the regular 20 pound propane tanks in a welded steel cage I made which sits under the truck.  The cage is built with steel tubing frame and expanded metal sides and bottom.  It allows any leak from the propane tank itself to dissipate into the outside air...much safer than keeping tanks inside your living area.   I used a stainless steel jacketed hose to feed the propane to the solenoid in a vented hatch and from there I used standard copper tube to the various appliances (flared fittings on the tube).

I had zero experience with propane before this, but I am an engineer so that usually doesn't stop me

This is the point where the propane hose goes into the living space (the vented hatch with the solenoid).   This hatch is sealed off from the living space and the three copper tubes going to each appliance pass through gas tight bulkhead fittings (purchase from Defender.com boat dealer).  You can see the small solenoid valve with the stainless jacketed cable going into it.   This solenoid and propane sensor controller (mounted inside the RV near the electric panel) were also purchased from Defender.com.   The propane fittings and copper hose were purchased at Lowes.

 

[ascii_man]

IGBT,

That's very impressive. But I want to keep it simple: buy a tank like the one from GoWesty and install it or have it installed. Where would I go to learn about how to do it correctly? Is there a concise authoritative text? I found a page where a guy was installing a system and he said that he couldn't use flexible tubing inside because it was forbidden. I don't even know where to find the relevant regulations.

 

[IGBT]

IGBT,

That's very impressive.  But I want to keep it simple: buy a tank like the one from GoWesty and install it or have it installed.  Where would I go to learn about how to do it correctly?  Is there a concise authoritative text?  I found a page where a guy was installing a system and he said that he couldn't use flexible tubing inside because it was forbidden.  I don't even know where to find the relevant regulations.

I just winged it with a little bit of help from various google searches.   There might be a propane for dummies book out there somewhere...you could check Amazon and then see if your local library can get it for you.

I think it is correct practice to use rigid soft copper tubing for the interconnections inside the living space.   The stuff is pretty cheap, you can buy a 10 foot coil at Lowes for around $10.   A flaring tool is about $10 and the flare fittings are $2 to $3.   They also sell a handheld forming tool for making nice bends in the tube without collapsing it.   Also around $5 to $10.  

Black gas pipe is sometimes used in RVs external to the living space to route the propane under the vehicle.   I had to resort to this rubber hose with stainless steel braid jacket because I have to disconnect the hose from the 2 stage regulator which is with the tanks under the truck when we remove the pods from our truck. (that might not make sense until you see how we designed our RV to be modular)

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

I just winged it with a little bit of help from various google searches.   There might be a propane for dummies book out there somewhere...you could check Amazon and then see if your local library can get it for you.

The only one I've seen is PLUMBING FOR BUS NUTS, which is actually an excerpt from THE BUS CONVERTERS BIBLE.  But I have to say they didn't do a very good job of making it an ebook, the drawings are kind of screwed up.

http://www.amazon.com/Conversion-Ma...7659&sr=8-1&keywords=bus+conversions+plumbing

Regards
John

 

[flying kurbmaster]

I built a sealed cabinet that is vented to the outside but accessible from the inside, under the cook stove. I like to close off the propane after every use. It holds two 6bl tanks one for the stove one for the heater, I have a rubber hose that runs to the stove, 2 feet and a rubber hose that runs under the van to the heater 10 feet, it is encased in another rubber garden hose for protection. I check them regularly for leaks with soapy water at the connection, as well as turn them off then relite them awhile later to see if they hold their pressure every so often. I also have a propane snifter, this is in the kurbmaster in the Dodge poptop it has a permanent tank under the van professionally installed, I still close it off after every use and have a propane snifter, and test them to see if they are holding pressure not sure what kind of hoses but I suspect copper. I never run my heaters when I sleep as I am too scared to so I warm it up at night and light it in the morning. I don't stay in the van in real cold climates. freezing is about as cold as I go to.

 

[ascii_man]

The Vented Cat installation manual refers to CAN1-B149.2 installation code for propane burning appliances and equipment and CSA C22.1 Canadian Electrical Code Part 1.

I am not entirely sure why they're specifying Canadian Codes, but maybe I can start there or find the US equivalents in a library.

But all this talk of cods got me thinking: maybe some variety of plumber would be the optimal way to go about this. RV dealers are expensive and incompetent, while plumbers tend to be expensive and often competent.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

But all this talk of cods got me thinking: maybe some variety of plumber would be the optimal way to go about this.  RV dealers are expensive and incompetent, while plumbers tend to be expensive and often competent.

It should be possible to find heating contractors who install propane fueled furnaces in houses.

Regards
John

 

[ascii_man]

It should be possible to find heating contractors who install propane fueled furnaces in houses.

Regards
John

Yeah, we may be converging on a solution. I really didn't want to pay $$$ to an auto mechanic who probably knows less about propane than I do, and RV dealers are also expensive and might balk at such custom work.