Pre-Wiring the Van

[Almost There]

Okay, so before I get too far along with building out the interior I need to run some wires - they won't get hooked up yet but I want them and the holes cut BEFORE it becomes problematic.

Electrical stuff is something I've always stayed well clear of - my favorite handywoman book had a chapter on electrical titled 'Prison isn't the only place you can be electrocuted' and I've stuck by that theory my entire life....

Eventually I will have power sources from: shore power and generator, alternator and solar. Integrating these is where I run into most of my questions.

I have no idea what the next decade will be in terms of % of boondocking vs FHU sites and I already own the generator so I want full availability of both 110 and 12V services.

For right now the questions are:

- 12V - is 12 gauge zip cord wire going to be suitable for a Whynter fridge as well as anything else I need 12V outlets for?

- 110 AC - circuit breaker or GFCI outlets?

- Should I wire a 110 outlet handy for plugging the fridge in to as well as a 12V outlet.

- Power from the alternator - is it okay and practical to run the wire from the engine compartment under the frame to near the rear of the van or should it all be run inside.

By the time these are answered I'll probably have 6 more questions...

 

[SternWake]

Okay, so before I get too far along with building out the interior I need to run some wires - they won't get hooked up yet but I want them and the holes cut BEFORE it becomes problematic.

Electrical stuff is something I've always stayed well clear of - my favorite handywoman book had a chapter on electrical titled 'Prison isn't the only place you can be electrocuted' and I've stuck by that theory my entire life....

Eventually I will have power sources from: shore power and generator, alternator and solar. Integrating these is where I run into most of my questions.

I have no idea what the next decade will be in terms of % of boondocking vs FHU sites and I already own the generator so I want full availability of both 110 and 12V services.

For right now the questions are:

- 12V - is 12 gauge zip cord wire going to be suitable for a Whynter fridge as well as anything else I need 12V outlets for?

- 110 AC - circuit breaker or GFCI outlets?

- Should I wire a 110 outlet handy for plugging the fridge in to as well as a 12V outlet.

- Power from the alternator - is it okay and practical to run the wire from the engine compartment under the frame to near the rear of the van or should it all be run inside.

By the time these are answered I'll probably have 6 more questions...

Make sure any 'zip cord' is copper and not aluminum.

These fridges are very sensitive to voltage drop on their wiring, and some like Danfoss who makes the compressors in the highest quality 12v fridges say to run a dedicated power line right from the battery, to Not share any busses with other loads.

I'd do 10 awg for the fridge, but I'd also eliminate the Ciggy plug for a Anderson Powerpole connector instead.

You  can run wires under the Van, just protect them by some convolute tubing and secure them properly, and where they penetrate the floor, make absolutely sure they cannot chafe.

If the fridge has a 120vac option, it can't hurt to use it when 120Vac is available.  I have a DC only fridge, but when plugged in my power supply effectively powers the fridge, and charges my batteries too, and powers all my 12vDC loads.  If you are going to run a converter/ charger like Iota, powermax or progressive dynamics they will effectively do the same.

If you choose a regular automatic battery charger, these will not like the ON OFF cycling of the fridge compressor and they do not like acting like a power supply, in most cases.

A 120V household power strip is a convenient way of distributing 120Vac power within.  I keep mine next to the inverters and just move the plugs from one to the other as needed.

 

[Almost There]

Make sure any 'zip cord' is copper and not aluminum.

Thanks for the reminder to use copper.

These fridges are very sensitive to voltage drop on their wiring, and some like Danfoss who makes the compressors in the highest quality 12v fridges say to run a dedicated power line right from the battery, to Not share any busses with other loads.

Okay, I'm confused - shouldn't I be running power to a 12v fuse block and then running individual circuits. I'd intended for the fridge to be on it's own 12v circuit since I'd put the outlet at the back of the cabinet where it would be hard to reach anyways.



I'd do 10 awg for the fridge, but I'd also eliminate the Ciggy plug for a Anderson Powerpole connector instead.

The Whynter comes with the ciggy plug already installed. Wouldn't I be voiding the warranty putting in Anderson Powerpole connector right away. Down the road I can see switching the fridge outlet to it but question doing it while the fridge is under warranty.

You  can run wires under the Van, just protect them by some convolute tubing and secure them properly, and where they penetrate the floor, make absolutely sure they cannot chafe.

Thanks, that's one thing that can be done later rather than sooner...nice!

If the fridge has a 120vac option, it can't hurt to use it when 120Vac is available.  I have a DC only fridge, but when plugged in my power supply effectively powers the fridge, and charges my batteries too, and powers all my 12vDC loads.  If you are going to run a converter/ charger like Iota, powermax or progressive dynamics they will effectively do the same.

I am having trouble finding out about 'converters'. I already know that the 'do it all in one package' RV power units do nothing well especially charging batteries so I'd like not to have one. I'll need a smallish inverter just to have 'in case' and would prefer a charger as a separate unit so that I can get one specifically for my batteries (see I AM learning from you... )

If you choose a regular automatic battery charger, these will not like the ON OFF cycling of the fridge compressor and they do not like acting like a power supply, in most cases.

All the more reason to have separate 110 circuit for the fridge so that when I'm plugged in to shore power or using the generator the battery charger is doing just that, charging the batteries not being a power supply.

A 120V household power strip is a convenient way of distributing 120Vac power within.  I keep mine next to the inverters and just move the plugs from one to the other as needed.

Ah, but I see that as making do rather than a way to do it! I'll wire in 110 outlets where I figure I'll need them and just keep a power strip around for the very rare time (hopefully never) that I need more than the outlets I put in. Can't power the electric kettle and the toaster at the same time, too bad, do one at a time!

Thanks SW!

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

You  can run wires under the Van, just protect them by some convolute tubing and secure them properly, and where they penetrate the floor, make absolutely sure they cannot chafe.

X2

Where they pass through any metal, like a floor or a firewall, put a rubber grommet in the hole: http://www.amazon.com/JawayTool®180...id=1435949914&sr=8-2&keywords=rubber+grommets

Tip - if they seem to be a little hard to work with, heat them up in hot water to make them a little more flexible.  They'll go back to normal when they cool.

Convolute tubing is THIS stuff: http://www.amazon.com/Split-Nylon-W...=1435950717&sr=8-10&keywords=convolute+tubing  It comes in different diameters.

Use heavy wire ties to attach it to brake or fuel lines or similar.  Space them every foot so nothing sags or hangs down.

Regards
John

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

The cheap, regular converters are useless.  They take forever to recharge your house batteries, and then once they are charged, can OVERCHARGE them and boil the water out if you let them keep running.

INTELLIGENT converters, like this: http://www.amazon.com/Progressive-D...r=8-3&keywords=progressive+dynamics+converter
don't have that problem.

Regards
John

 

[SoulRaven]

Run all your wires & plumbing on the outside of your walls, behind an easily accessible but nice looking covering. Putting any of this stuff inside your walls can create nightmares in the future.

12 gauge zip cord might be a little small. I use 10 gauge for just about everything with no problems.

I have 4 ciggy plugs installed in my battery box, each with a separate fuse. I don't know if they're still available or where, but I replaced all of my fuses years ago with circuit breakers that just plug in where the fuse goes, but have a push button to reset them. Very handy.

 

[Almost There]

Run all your wires & plumbing on the outside of your walls, behind an easily accessible but nice looking covering.  Putting any of this stuff inside your walls can create nightmares in the future.

12 gauge zip cord might be a little small.  I use 10 gauge for just about everything with no problems.

I have 4 ciggy plugs installed in my battery box, each with a separate fuse.  I don't know if they're still available or where, but I replaced all of my fuses years ago with circuit breakers that just plug in where the fuse goes, but have a push button to reset them.  Very handy.

Oh, they're going to be behind easily accessible places all right. Except for the last few feet of the one that has to run down behind the kitchen cabinet to power the fridge.

I'm fortunate with the high top that I have an easy to run channel right where all the OEM wiring harness is. If you look at this pic up near the top of the picture you can see it behind the wooden blocks that are framing in the cut edge of the van roof.




What I'm trying to decide NOW, before the cabinets gets screwed to the wall and the floor is whether to put a 110 outlet down there as well as a 12V.

If I don't put the 110 in then the fridge, which CAN be run on 110, would forever and ever have to be run through an inverter even if I'm hooked up to shore power for long periods of time. Since an inverter itself takes power to run I'm wondering if I'm not better off being able to choose my power source.

 

[SoulRaven]

I would make it usable by either power source.

 

[flying kurbmaster]

you might want to run speaker wires as well and a few extra wires 110 and 12v in the walls from one end to the other, preferably on both sides that you can get at or access later in case you think of something else you need you may never use them but you never know once you start living in there things will come to you. I burried some wires in the walls originally and have used them all over time.

 

[Almost There]

110 wiring for a 15 amp circuit in the van.

Do I need 14/3 or 14/2 wire?

I thought I needed 3 but now I'm confused!

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

110 wiring for a 15 amp circuit in the van.

Do I need 14/3 or 14/2 wire?

I thought I needed 3 but now I'm confused!

You ALWAYS want to use 3 wire cables.  The chassis and body of your van should be electrically connected to the 3rd ground wire for safety.  And use at least one GFCI outlet, with all other outlets taking their feed from that so they are also protected.

Regards
John

 

[Almost There]

You ALWAYS want to use 3 wire cables.  The chassis and body of your van should be electrically connected to the 3rd ground wire for safety.  And use at least one GFCI outlet, with all other outlets taking their feed from that so they are also protected.

Regards
John

 Thanks John, I should have paid more attention to things when Dad did wiring for me...

Instead of GFCI outlets would I be better of with circuit breakers?

I happen to have a pair of 15 amp breakers and the panel to go with that I ripped out of the old interior. I threw out the wire because PO had spliced in to it in several locations...should have kept that too now that I look at the price of romex here.. :dodgy: Some of it might have been usable..oh well!

And no, I won't hook up to power until it's inspected by someone who knows what they're doing...

 

[GotSmart]

110 wiring for a 15 amp circuit in the van.

Do I need 14/3 or 14/2 wire?

I thought I needed 3 but now I'm confused!

Always put in 3, because that will give you a guaranteed ground and protect your "assets"  The price difference is almost nothing.

 

[SternWake]

When buying romex for 120 applications, 2 wire is actually 3 wire and includes the ground, Buying 3 wire romex will give you 3 insulated wires and a 4th which is the ground.

I have one single separate 120V household receptacle. It is wired with a 12 awg power tool replacement cord and either plug this into my powerstrip, or My Inverter.

Don't discount the simple protected power strip for 120Vac distribution. In a Van, one hardly needs separate 110V outlets everywhere. It is just unneeded weight and complexity and more things which can go wrong.

 

[Almost There]

When buying romex for 120 applications, 2 wire is actually 3 wire and includes the ground,  Buying 3 wire romex will give you 3 insulated wires and a 4th which is the ground.

I have one single separate 120V household receptacle.  It is wired with  a 12 awg power tool replacement cord and either plug this into my powerstrip, or My Inverter.

Don't discount the simple protected power strip for 120Vac distribution.  In a Van, one hardly needs separate 110V outlets everywhere.  It is just unneeded weight and complexity and more things which can go wrong.

Thanks for clarifying that 2 wire/3 wire issue. I'd have looked kind of silly at the lumber yard...

Complex or not, I'm building for an unknown future where I may be using 110 more than 12V or maybe not. It's less complex to plan now than to try to add later. A couple of extra outlets is hardly going to add a pound or two, I'll go on a diet if it's that important....

I'm still looking for guidance on whether I'd be better off using the 2 circuit panel and 15 amp breakers that I already have or putting in GFCI.

 

[Matlock]

My understanding is a GFCI is used to protect people from electrical shock, so it is completely different from a fuse.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

You can get either gfci outlets OR gfci circuit breakers.  Either will work and neither has any real advantage over the other.  In houses, Do-Your-Selfers almost always use the outlets because it's easy to kill the power to one circuit while you work on it.  You'd have to turn off all the power to the house to change a circuit breaker unless you are comfortable working around live current.

Regards
John

 

[Almost There]

You can get either gfci outlets OR gfci circuit breakers.  Either will work and neither has any real advantage over the other.  In houses, Do-Your-Selfers almost always use the outlets because it's easy to kill the power to one circuit while you work on it.  You'd have to turn off all the power to the house to change a circuit breaker unless you are comfortable working around live current.

Regards
John

Well, that's kind of really easy in an RV or van, you unplug it from the power source...

 

[SoulRaven]

I'd go with 30 amp circuits...

 

[eDJ_]

Just a side thought here.   This may have more to do with "cosmetic" appearance than actual nuts & bolts wiring
but there are products that will allow having your wiring on the outside of walls contained to where they don't look tacky and are yet still accessible should the wiring need serviced.

They are called "Panduit" and are a plastic channel which comes in various sizes.  It can be opened and snapped
closed again. There are pieces that can be used with it for making angled bends also.

There are many different styles of it depending on the need.  Some is slotted so that if you
need to branch off in different places you can pull wires out at any point.

Some of it has a center wall such that if you want to keep 110 VAC separated from 12 VDC you will have
that flexibility.   One can install screws directly through the back side of the panduit along with specialized plastic buttons and install a separation wall to isolate different wiring.

There is also a common product such as the black plastic (also other colors) of flexible conduit which is cut
along one side so the wires can be inserted into it or bulled back as or where needed.  There are various forms of hangers for this product but it does tend to be sag between fasteners if you don't use one about every
foot apart.

There are nylon mounts with foam tape adhesive to use with the conduit.  They
will snap open and closed for servicing the wiring when and where necessary.  I've
used this in my motor boat from the instrument panel to the engine for wiring to the
starter solenoid, nav lighting, and bus for radio & cigarette lighter used for hand held spot
light.  This is installed out of sight under the gunwale where it can be easily serviced if needed.

If I insulated and paneled my Van I would use that shown in the first photo.   Otherwise use the conduit
as in the next to last photo and run it under the Van and bring the wiring up into the living area through
holes drilled large enough to use rubber grommets so that the same size of conduit could be brought
through that service hole and the wiring ran to a Ground Fault where a power strip could be plugged into
that.  Larger 12VDC from the battery could run in this to the Aux battery in the living area and that
connected with a knife switch or isolator.