Paypal helps scammers scam sellers

[VanKitten]

I wrote a while back about why I will never use eBay and/or PayPal to sell anything.

I was scammed, and eBay helped the scammer.

Same exact thing....buyer claims the product never arrived..demands refund.
PayPal pays them back from my funds.  I get proof of delivery...then they claim it was damaged...even though there was no claim made.   

Then buyer is told to send it back..but what arrives is nothing but a box of some old newspaper....but, seller has the tracking to prove I got it..so eBay/paypal let them keep the money.


This is a real common scam...and I will never use eBay or PayPal again...

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Ma...g-Protein-Powder-Online-446928263.html[/SIZE]

 

[Weight]

...scammed over 400 times....

 

[tx2sturgis]

Although I have had mostly good luck on ebay, I have gotten 2 or 3 items that were not as described and got screwed.

I tried to sell an almost new smartphone on ebay a few years ago, and quickly realized there are some tricks that some buyers will use...but I turned the tables on the scammer and came out ahead.

So yes, now I'm very cautious with any type of consumer electronics or high tech gadgets on ebay.

 

[blars]

I've been selling stuff on ebay, and about 1% of my orders are problems. Most common is foreign orders not paying, so I'm only out the listing fee and some of my time. GSP when available eliminates the sticker shock of overseas shipping. Most of the others are happy with a partial refund for the claimed defect -- and those tend to be on cheaper items. I'm mostly selling "vintage" items, quite a bit of it WWII surplus.

Staples.com is cheapest on the small boxes I use (ship to store for free shipping) and supplyhut.com is cheapest on packing peanuts and tape.

 

[John61CT]

eBay's great for buying, but if you live in an affluent populated area, sell f2f AS-IS cash only via Craiglist, first name only, burner numbers, public locations

 

[VanKitten]

Well... since every effort to fix and resolve this was blocked by eBay and PayPal...they are clearly "in on the scam". ... they are not neutral party here...they are actively helping the scammers.

Never again with either get any business from me. Ever. And I warn my friends, do not expect eBay and/or PayPal will help you...the scammer is their customer...you are the mark.

 

[John61CT]

Same could be said for the US credit card business.

By default the consumer's word is gospel.

It is up to the merchant to "prove" a buyer is lying.

Just in this case 99% of CS is automated, the rest is outsourced, very hard to het a fair hearing.

If you are in the business, making a living through that sales channel, you just accept the occasional loss as a cost of doing business, and factor the percentages into your markup formula.

Banks do the same thing (nothing) about credit fraud, card skimmers, hacking losses.

You can call it cooperating with criminals, but in the US it's just business as usual.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Same could be said for the US credit card business.

By default the consumer's word is gospel.

It is up to the merchant to "prove" a buyer is lying.

Just 2 years ago I had a run-in with Barclay Card, and found out that contrary to what we are told, this isn't necessarily true....

It took me 4 months to straighten it out.  Multiple calls and emails to several departments, including their fraud department, and including calls to the home office of the company that was related to the fraudulent activity.

It comes down to who they wish to believe, and what they have to lose...

 

[Ballenxj]

I have had really good luck using both PayPal & eBay. Having said that, I always used due diligence when thinking about buying things.
I have also sold a bit there as well with good luck. Thing is, I saw changes coming and haven't used either in about two years. They do keep trying to entice me back with all their Ads.
Now days I prefer local face to face through Craigslist. You have to be careful there too, as scammers are everywhere. :dodgy: 
Funny story, I sold a complete Pentax Auto 110 set (tiny slr film camera) on eBay while specifying sales are U.S.A. only. The person that bought it was from France. He messaged me after buying it apologizing profusely for being out of country and buying anyway, but when he saw it, he just had to have it. I messaged him back and said OK, but I must have money in hand with no BS before I even packed it up and send it. The deal went through without a hitch, and we both gained another positive on our scores.

 

[VanKitten]

That's the problem...PayPal makes you think you have money in hand. You do not
If that buyer had claimed lost or damages...then YOU lose..both the money and the object.

If they ship a box of nothing.....they had the tracking slip from UPS..... then YOU lose for good. Hey...you cannot prove they didn't send it back.

no more eBay or PayPal. Craigslist.

 

[mr_elijah_gardner]

I could go on for days about the problems with eBay and Paypal from a seller perspective. I sell 500+ items a year on eBay. I have experienced just about every scam a buyer can do. Even if you win a case in paypal they can still dispute the charges with their bank/credit card company. 

I find it extremely aggravating.  It is just the cost of doing business I guess. Although there have been some that upset me enough a road trip seemed like a good idea at the time.

 

[John61CT]

> Barclay Card

Brit bank innit?

 

[Goshawk]

Never any mention of shipping insurance and using USPS fraud protection and insurance ? If you sell anything make sure you buy the insurance. Claims of shipping damage can be paid after four months of fighting usually. If someone games you with a return of empty box, or box with a brick in it, then that’s mail fraud again. And can be investigated by USPS as fraud. Sure takes forever but if you show proof the insurance can pay.


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[Every Road Leads Home]

I've had good luck with ebay and paypal, I've probably got 200 transactions under my belt with a mix of both buying and selling on ebay. I don't use it that often anymore, but every once and awhile it's great to find an oddball piece or part that I just can't locate anywhere else. Just recently I needed this little plastic piece for a Toro Wheelhorse tractor that connected to the throttle cable and they no longer made, couldn't find it anywhere, decided to look on Ebay and found a used one for 6 bucks. It turned my $50 non working tractor into a $250 sale. I've not had to resolve any bad transactions so can't speak to what that process is like. I'm sure it's frustrating, like most any dispute resolution is when dealing with mega corporations.

I much prefer dealing in person, craigslist and the marketplace on facebook is quickly becoming the chosen vendor in the online classified's world, I think you'll start seeing the slow gradual downfall of craigslist now that facebook has entered that arena.

 

[UptownSport]

I've sold literally thousands of items- I made 'specialty' automotive parts and only sell on eBay because it's so convenient.


I don't recall problems like that.
and, any problems I have had were on me.

Those small flat rate boxes will rip open- Glue them closed, tape reinforcement on corners, and bagging if there's multiple items.
Priority does include insurance, no idea how it works because I've never had to use it.
Some items need to reinforce box with glued in cardboard, glued in lath, or 1x2s and semi-crate the box.

The silly 70lb limit on flat rate boxes? Sold a set of semi tire chains and nearly exceeded it.
Carried box behind P.O. counter for them as it was too heavy for person to lift--
Definitely needed to reinforce box, LoL!


They said the box  ripped open, definitely had that happen to stuff i sold, and stuff I ordered, so it probably did.
Most people are honest, and even more are too lazy to go through all that trouble.

 

[tripper]

As a buyer I have been scammed twice by a seller. Both times Ebay/PayPal were of no use in recovering funds. Both items were in the 300 dollar range.

 

[Goshawk]

As a buyer I have been scammed twice by a seller. Both times Ebay/PayPal were of no use in recovering funds. Both items were in the 300 dollar range.

Was that in the last year? eBay and Paypal separated into two companies and fixed a few policies. They may be better now at recovery and correction. Unlike previous years.

1) always use Paypal to pay. Literally hundreds of purchases. No issues yet. But if there is an issue I will use a credit card that will reverse the charges upon my demand.

2) always use USPS and have made a shipping claim for insurance. Which was painful. But did get my money back.

3) you can report


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[UptownSport]

Could you explain how that occurred? At Kat said, both, plus your credit car, are biased to consumer.
You can call credit card company if you're outside PayPal/ eBay bounds.

Ordered an item- Not a commodity, but a piece of tooling for machining.

Price was just a little too good to be true- not a lot. Great seller reputation-
Didn't ship, and noticed it was relisted, then the negs started rolling in.

eBay took care of it- in fact, don't recall the details, but eBay rep schemed and got me more back than I paid-
He sucked it out of the PayPal account-

One thing I'm leery of, is linking PayPal account to bank account- Had to do this, but really don't like it.

 

[John61CT]

Out of thousands of eBay purchases I've had around twenty where I took advantage of the guarantee policy.

Some sellers try to say "As is, no returns" but that is irrelevant. If sold as Used the seller is guaranteeing it is in working condition.

Even if sold as Parts Only condition, it still needs to be "as described".

The seller must even pay the return shipping if violating these two principles.

But even if you just don't like it, for whatever reason, if you're willing to pay return shipping for a Used item, you can return it and eBay (or PayPal) will refund your money no matter what the seller says.

Note their %rating is critical to their privilege of selling at all anymore, so someone in business or even making money regularly will usually be desperate to keep you happy. So don't file any incident report at first, just contact the seller.

Obviously that means give your business to high-volume sellers with 100% or maybe 99.7+ ratings.

Often they won't bother having you send it back.

You can also just negotiate for a partial refund.

Don't scam sellers or abuse these policies, karma will come back around, and doesn't always wait for next lives.

If you are a seller, incorporate the fact that scammers exist into your pricing policies.

 

[MikeRuth]

I tend to wonder if a seller shouldn't be keeping his Pay pal balance very low, ie transfer your funds into a bank account ASAP. Should there be a dispute there would be non sufficient money in your account to take away?

Just a thought

Mike R