Ozark trail 2 burner propane cooktop troubleshooting help?

[XERTYX]

Ok. So I have an ozark trail 2 burner propane cooktop. I bought it last summer at Wally world for $39.99. At the same time I bought a new 15# propane tank, an off the shelf bulk to 1# tank adapter hose on clearance in the lawn and garden section. (Not the only one in stock they were clearing to move for the next seasonal flip)

Last fall my brother gave me a 10+ year old 15# propane tank from a junk grill he had that was still appropriately half full. (It was the newer exchangeable type. I know there was a change at some point and super old tanks are not exchangable.)

I swapped over to the old tank after the new tank no longer had the oomph to run both burners at once but still should have a touch of life left in it. Last week the old tank ran dry but I've been cooking over wood since. So this week I cooked a little bit but didnt bother with the new tank as I didnt want to run low on pressure halfway thru cooking so i screwed in a 1lb bottle for the first time. Everything went fine and i hadnt used it again until today. It was taking quite a while to boil water for pasta but shouldnt be less than half full so this seemed peculiar. Also towards the end of making lunch the gas would surge decentish flame and every few seconds shhhhhhhhhhh and a nice strong flame for a short while and then repeat after another few seconds.

After lunch i went and exchanged the old tank for a new one at the gas station and boy what a new one! Must have just been recertified. Bright shiny new brass and shiny new on off knob.

Knowing the last time the tank i originally bought at Wally world still had enough pressure to run a single burner i figured i would burn up the last of it and then exchange it next.

But there was a problem. When I attached the original walmart tank with the adapter hose the burner would barely hold a flame. Ok no problem. It leaked out what little it had left. After all I did just buy a new tank today. But that one had the same problem.

So I reattached the 1# bottle. It seems to burn fine. Reattached the brand new bulk tank barely a flame at all. Reattached the 1# seems to burn fine.

At this point I unscrewed the pressure regulator/pipe combo that you remove when you fold it up for storage but hasn't been removed for months. And it seemed stuck but finally the tube came out of inlet and inspecting it it looks wet and sticky. Like it has clear corn syrup in it. 

I also happen to have a new in the box propane tabletop hibachi type grill I got for $6 years ago and had in storage for an emergency. I connected the brand new bulk tank with adapter to it and it burned. A little. But not very strong. After 1 minute or so I turned off the gas and the burner smoked. Quite a lot of smoke for quite a while. This i put down to it being new and maybe the burner was galvanized and that's what was burning off until i flipped it over and around the jets there was a ***** buildup like burned syrup or oil.

So the obvious thing to do seems to me is to replace the bulk tank adapter hose.

But my question is this. 
Do these hoses have a 1 year lifespan in general? 

Was this old tank the culprit that clogged the hose? Should I expect this type of failure again in the near future?

 Should I replace the stove seeing as how any of this gum buildup might leech back down the tubing from the stove if I leave it connected to the new hose? 

Why do the 1# bottles still run the stove? As it seems pretty gunked up just past the pressure regulator.

 

[geogentry]

I don't know Ozark products, firstly.

It sounds like the hose. I do know that on the Mr. Buddy heaters it is highly recommended that the adapter hose also have a regulator. It is said that the higher pressure coming out of the bigger propane bottles will cause a leeching of oils and such out of the adapter hose.

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[Trebor English]

I also have an Ozark Trail stove. The steel tube that attaches the propane tank to the side of the stove has a valve in it like the valve in a tire valve stem. If the big aluminum nut is real loose the tube isn't pushed in enough to keep the valve pushed open fully. Try pushing the steel tube into the stove with firm hand pressure then tighten the nut with your other hand. I haven't ever used a wrench on it, just push and hand tighten.

 

[Gypsy Freedom]

the oil has likely come out of suspension from the big propane tanks. the oil usually takes a long time to accumulate but sometimes if you get a bad fill from a station you can get quite a bit. one thing that can help deal with it is to make sure their are no loops or low spots in the hose going from the tank to your appliance. the oil can condense on the inside of the hose and drain down. if there is a low spot in the hose it can form a puddle over time and if enough it can restrict flow when it thickens and gets pushed up to the appliance.

the oil, just like other oils can be dissolved and washed away.

 

[XERTYX]

@trebor yes you know exactly the model I'm talking about. The nut has been loose before. But it is tightened now. And when I removed the tube it was like pulling it out of pot of glue or something. And the space where the valve you mentioned meets the valve inside the stove that connects to the copper tubing underneath the stove has a visible droplet of a very viscous liquid similar to karo syrup coming out of it. It's never been difficult to insert or remove up to this point and I had an issue with pressure when the nut was loose once already so I keep that tighened.

@gypsy that was what I assumed was going on. Would it be worth the effort on my part to attempt to clean the rubber hose or should I replace it? The hose is crimped onto the connectors and I dont relish disassembling it and using hose clamps to reattach it. Also regarding the placement I recently did relocate the stove and where it was sitting was lower than before so there was a loop in the hose. Not a curly cue but like a rain drip loop if you know what I mean. Should I space the tank further from the low table so there is more like a 30 degree angle rise to the stove? Right now it is next to the table and the slack makes a droop and then upwards to the stove. That was your meaning about the accumulation I believe.

 

[MrNoodly]

I do know that on the Mr. Buddy heaters it is highly recommended that the adapter hose also have a regulator.

It's a filter that Mr. Heater products need. It's to trap contaminants from the hose and tank.

 

[geogentry]

It's a filter that Mr. Heater products need. It's to trap contaminants from the hose and tank.

The following is from the Mr. Heater website. Cut and Paste. Following that is the link to the exact page where the information was pulled.

If the hose does not have a regulator THEN, and it is not the one made of the special rubber, it will need a filter as you started.

- - - - - -
Why do some hoses need a filter and some do not?

Currently, we make three hose models that do not require a filter: the F273704 which is made from a different chemical compound of rubber that does not have the oily substance that can get into the fuel flow, the F271802 that attaches to a low-pressure line, and the F271803 which is a regulated hose. Since the F271802 & F271803 only see low pressure, the oily substances are not squeezed from the hose material

https://www.mrheater.com/mhuniversity/product

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[XERTYX]

That is really odd. I didnt see his post at all when I replied. I swear it wasnt even there. Oh well. Maybe I missed it. Yes I did know that. I didnt think it would be an issue on a stove as it's a direct burner not a catalytic burner like the heaters. and I had noticed the left burner which I use more often sometimes the jets would clog a little bit. But this I put down to occasional outdoor usage and sometimes was rain. A little TLC with a wire brush and removing surface rust on the outside of the burner seemed to address the issue. I guess it was getting oil buildup all along. This tank had been sitting with propane in it for many many many years. There may have also been a change of chemistry in oils since then. I remember reading in a thread about a very old built in RV tank thats been filled over and over for years that ate regulators. I'm not really certain how old this tank was. My brother got it second hand from his buddy. He was one of those guys that knew a guy who knows a guy. He might have been getting sub par propane refills for years in the tank before my brother got it. No telling what was in the tank I suppose.

 

[XERTYX]

Mr. Heater Fuel Filter for Portable Big Buddy Heaters #F273699 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000HE8P2O

If I were to always use this with a similar hose as I have been using from now on how long would I stand to benefit from it? For instance... how long before the filter needs replacement? 

If the stove can be salvaged as it seems like it can be seeing as it still runs with some efficiency on 1# tanks how often would I need to replace it? Or would it be more cost effective to keep on hand more hoses? I think I paid $7 for the one I have and the filter is $10. Or is there a better, preferably cheaper filter directly from the tank that connects to the hose as this filter protects the device only and not the hose.

 

[geogentry]

Xertyx

Mr. Heater says once a year on filter. But it really depends on how much you use it I would think. Your are probably not going to run your stove for as great a time as a heater is run so maybe less often, I don't know though to be honest.

In forums on the heaters people say if you turn off the propane first and let all the gas get used up in the line it will reduce the leeching on the hose drastically. That should extend the life of your filter a great deal.

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[Gypsy Freedom]

@gypsy that was what I assumed was going on. Would it be worth the effort on my part to attempt to clean the rubber hose or should I replace it? The hose is crimped onto the connectors and I dont relish disassembling it and using hose clamps to reattach it. Also regarding the placement I recently did relocate the stove and where it was sitting was lower than before so there was a loop in the hose. Not a curly cue but like a rain drip loop if you know what I mean. Should I space the tank further from the low table so there is more like a 30 degree angle rise to the stove? Right now it is next to the table and the slack makes a droop and then upwards to the stove. That was your meaning about the accumulation I believe.

eveyone has a different idea of "worth the effort" lol. i can say i have cleaned hoses and even taken apart stoves to clean out the oil. it is a pain and takes some strong solvent. i would NOT take the fitting off the hose. if i was to try and clear the hose i would fill it with a good solvent and shake it back and forth and let it soak and then shake and drain. might do that a couple times. i used gasoline, but only do that if you are comfortable with and extremely care to use the proper saftey to not start a fire or poison your self or others.

yes, you got my idea about the low spot in the hose. i often cant get it to lay right also. but i try to not let it sit like that. you just have to do the best you can.

 

[XERTYX]

@geogentry yeah I assume I would have far less usage with a stove than a heater so that might be viable. I have never bled off the propane as I dont like to waste fuel. But if the alternative is a max 1 year life on the hose even with a filter it would probably be cheaper to do so.

@gypsy that might be an option. I'm thinking right now I'll buy a replacement and attempt to to also clean the hose using a solvent. Then I can test it on a hibachi grill. I have another one that hasn't been used in probably a year or more. So if it dies who cares. You may have noticed I repurpose and recycle junk. One mans trash etc. My only concern is that the 1# end of the hose has the needle valve kind of deal. So I'd need a way to fill it with solvent. I was thinking isopropyl alcohol at first but I dont want water in there. The other end, the bulk connection end has a tiny hole that when disconnected vents out gas for about a minute. It would be hard to to fill from that end without a hypodermic needle and luckily I dont know where to find one of those. I'll see if I cant fill from the other end somehow depressing the needle and pressurizing it. Maybe a turkey injector syringe with the tip buffed flat. Idk.

 

[MrNoodly]

The following is from the Mr. Heater website. Cut and Paste. Following that is the link to the exact page where the information was pulled.

If the hose does not have a regulator THEN, and it is not the one made of the special rubber, it will need a filter as you started.

                               - - - - - -
Why do some hoses need a filter and some do not?

Currently, we make three hose models that do not require a filter: the F273704 which is made from a different chemical compound of rubber that does not have the oily substance that can get into the fuel flow, the F271802 that attaches to a low-pressure line, and the F271803 which is a regulated hose. Since the F271802 & F271803 only see low pressure, the oily substances are not squeezed from the hose material

https://www.mrheater.com/mhuniversity/product

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Also from the same Mr. Heater page (emphasis added):

[font=raleway, Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif]In most propane appliance situations, there is a regulator located at the tank, followed by a supply line. In that situation, what passes through the hose after the regulator is low pressure gas. Low pressure gas is harmless to rubber. The buddy system has the regulator located at the heater. In this setup you cannot have a regulator at the propane tank due to over-regulating the gas supply. This makes the gas that passes through the hose to get to the buddy system high pressure. High pressure gas squeezes rubber as it passes through it, and can occasionally pull some of the oils and plasticizers from the hose during these periods of high pressure. Those contaminates will travel with the flow of propane and land somewhere inside the heater, slowly building up over time and causing gas flow problems once the buildup becomes large enough. The 10' buddy hose does not contain any plasticizers or oily contaminates that will leach out of the hose during high pressure propane flow. That is why that hose does not need a filter. All of the other hoses for the buddy system will need a filter because they will contain oils and plasticizers.[/font]

 

[XERTYX]

@MrNoodly this is interesting. So according to Mr. Buddy, a well known mfg of heaters there are contaminants that can infiltrate a system from the rubber hose. This gives me pause to think. I hadnt considered a variable wherein the hose itself is the culprit. I have even in the past rigged a 15# bulk tank to a residential propane stove via the inlet on a mobile home 250 gallon (typical) propane inlet source. The local residential propane reseller had reservations about selling me the necessary components but I assured them this was my build and they had no liability at the time. It didnt last as I had to eventually walk away from the property. But you present a valid point that was as of yet unconsidered by myself. I thank you for that. This I'd the type of constructive feedback I have been missing in these forums for some time. Often it reads as off topic BS but in this case at least it does present a valid possible culprit to a real world problem which stands to benefit the OP. Which is me. 

I DO have the problem listed in the OP but I wanted to give credit where credit is due.

A sincere thank you.

 

[geogentry]

@mrnoodly

And more confusion with this.

When questioned about hooking the heater to the same propane tanks in an RV.

"If your propane source is regulated you can hook it to the required regulated quick coupler connection on the left hand side of the heater using our # F271802 hose, and quick coupler connection."

So in one place they say not to have the gas regulated and in another they say it must be regulated. I contacted the company earlier for clarification on this.

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[XERTYX]

Well I have read that this is dependent upon the application.

This particular problem does seem to lend itself to both eventualities.

In the future I intend to use a filter before the device to protect it from buildup, burn off the fuel, as well as either maintain or replace the rubber hose.

This in my own mind solves the problem unless it still persists post solution.

However I am not opposed to further solutions and or variables not yet addressed.

 

[XERTYX]

Well I was going to reheat some of my pasta for today's lunch but when I attach the 1# bottle the regulator leaks like a sieve. I obviously didnt attempt to light the burner with a leaking regulator but I did turn it on and it's getting plenty of fuel at the burner. My first thought was that perhaps the droplets of oil I saw present in the inlet had clogged the lines and the regulator had a popout valve inside it or something but no. The burner gets full pressure.

I guess that surging I experienced yesterday was the last act of a dying diaphragm in the reg. 

So if I cannot find a replacement regulator I know what I'll do.

**DISCLAIMER**
The manual clearly stated not to use ANY other regulator with this model.

This is what I intended to do in my scenario of my own choosing.

I DO NOT reccomend anyone try this on their own busted cooktop.

Propane gas is combustible and a leak can and will cause a fire.
*****DISCLAIMER****

The gas inlet has an approx 1/2 inch or 3/8 inch (I'm not great at eyeballing sizes) threaded brass fixture which accepts a rubber gasket fitted steel tube with a flare and secured with a nut. There is no reason in my mind why I cannot safely use brass hardware of the appropriate sizing and teflon tape or pipe joint compound and connect it to a replacement rubber hose with regulator intended for a propane bbq grill. The only thing that worries me at all is I dont know the psi rating of the faulty regulator. I wouldnt want to over pressurize the stove.

 

[highdesertranger]

more than likely it's a proprietary fitting, you just can't buy the fittings. that how a Coleman is anyway.

got a picture?

highdesertranger

 

[B and C]

Cut the regulator off leaving the fitting and some tube if you are going to put a regulator at the tank. Flare the tube and go from there. Check for leaks with a soapy rag before use.

 

[XERTYX]

I havent taken a picture as of yet. As it has been established it is definitely a proprietary fitting with a needle valve assembly. The steel tube butts up into the fitting with a needle and actuator type of fitting similar to a shrader valve but the exterior of the fitting where the nut threads on to is a standard size. It may very well require drilling out the actuator inside of the brass fitting that meets the needle but I doubt this. I think the needle serves only to ensure that the regulator/steel tubing is incapable of serving to act as a torch nozzle. The regulator and steel tubing threaded onto a fuel source does not allow fuel to pass thru until the pin inside the tube is depressed. 

I doubt that the brass fitting on the stove is a double failsafe. Even if it is I think a dremel tool could remove the ball and spring that serves to disconnect the pin in the source valve of the steel tubing. I hope that makes sense.

Just past the brass fitting on the stove there is a thin run of copper tubing that runs to both burners. Even if there is a second failsafe past the fitting if drilled out the threaded exterior of the brass fitting should have no issue accepting propane thru a sealed network of fittings and a  regualator. Not that I see. Maybe I'm wrong. But I do not see any issue assuming the regulator is the same rating as the one that failed.