offroading a van or minivan

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steveh2112

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suppose i wanted to go somewhere like this
http://cosnow.com/2013/08/24/tips-for-camping-at-gross-reservoir/

needs a bit of ground clearance, maybe 4WD

i'm still pondering van (astro AWD or similar) vs minivan (toyota sienna AWD, honda odysey or kia sedona)

which if any would handle a dirt road with a few rocks better? i assume the AWD ones of course but van v. minivan. which has the ground clearance and less expensive stuff to get dinged if you ground it.

also what about some kind of mod? a steel plate under the sump?

thx
 
i just found the sienna is 6.5" and the astro is 7.6 to 8.6 so big win for the astro. i guess a lot depends on loading too

in general i suppose the astro is easier to work on been a van and been american
 
2wd Vanagon or even an 2wd Astro will do just fine for a large amount of forest roads. The AWD versions of both are nice as well, but I've also seen front wheel drive cars go to places I'd never have thought they would be.
 
David said:
2wd Vanagon or even an 2wd Astro will do just fine for a large amount of forest roads. The AWD versions of both are nice as well, but I've also seen front wheel drive cars go to places I'd never have thought they would be.

i'd prefer a 2wd in some ways for better gas mileage and overall cost

i did read one great tip on this forum about putting a winch on the front to get you out of tricky spots and since a winch is only about $120 i'd do that

i still wonder if it would be a good idea to put a steel plate under the oil sump?
 
not sure if you are including full-size vans? mine is a '94 chevy full size conversion (RWD) and i've taken it places i never thought it could. knowing how to get it through tough spots helps a lot. keep in mind that older full-size vans are built on the same chassis as the pick-up trucks of the time, only difference is they slapped a fat van body on them. 
that being said, someone posted a video of astros and safaris going through mud and they handled it very well. vids are on youtube somewhere.
 
You gotta be patient, but 4x4 full sized vans are around in most price ranges. If traveling off the beaten path is a priority, it's the best answer.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1426041461.672759.jpg

Diesel 1 ton 4x4 12k winch and lockers.
 

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I used to offroad Land Cruisers as a hobby, I wouldn't think too much of having just 4x4 honestly if it wasn't locked and would for fact choose a locked rear end (selectable like the ARB or Eaton) in a 2wd or a nice limited slip over just 4x4, even more so for a daily driver that will rarely go offroad. The 4x4 van conversions cost so much and for the price difference (huge) I would much rather install a locker in the rear end of a van and put some slightly bigger tires on it, this includes the Astro (LSD were stamped G80 in them) which I personally would avoid the AWD in, I would in most vehicles actually.

As a side note, I would drive my Corolla station wagon down that road in stock form (a lot of it comes down to experience with driving stuff like that), 4x4 isn't a solution and often times does nothing more than get people stuck 25 feet further down the trail/road. For what it sounds like you want to do, buying something that already has a LSD (or not and installing a selectable locker) along with a winch (no $120 winch is going to cut it, sorry steveh2112) which you can get a Mile Marker or something functional for about $350 would be the way to go.
 
That picture shown isn't too bad. The other link talked of hitting the skid plates of a F 150. Be careful up there. It cost a pretty penny if you get stuck, I know.

We took a wrong turn in two brand new Expeditions and it cost $1300 to have someone come up with a handymans helper and jack the front end of one them up so we could get back on the trail. What was better was that he guided us down the rest of the seven mile boulder strewn trail. We spent the night in my Expy after getting it lightly stuck around 11 pm, thank goodness too because a few feet ahead of it was another drop off. While we waited for help the next day I collected rocks to fill in the gap and got my truck out of the way. They came up in a lifted 70's Blazer with huge tires and a winch that they used to move any boulders too big for us to go over or around. A few spots Honey simply parked and said I aint doing it, so I had to drive one truck over, walk back and drive the other over before we went on. One of those points was a rock bigger than the trucks and that had just taken out a CJ. Having no choice but to do it was both exhilarating and scary at the same time. It was amazing to see what the trucks really could do when push came to shove. Thank goodness Statefarm paid for the 20 grand in damages. By the way none of it would have been possible without 4x4 low.

Believe it or not, that was a forest service road clearly marked on a map. There are no warning signs as to the severity of the trail and once you pass a certain point, no turning back. Be careful up there.
 
jimindenver said:
We took a wrong turn in two brand new Expeditions

You're talking about the Ford Expedition?  That name is a misnomer not to mention naming the bigger one the Excursion when they should have named them the other way around.  Anyway, the Expedition is IFS, it is a 4x4 but we're not talking about a strong one, very easy to break the front end on that without much trying involved, far easier yet with larger tires.  Sounds like a really fun time though, I wish I'd been there!
 
Do note that limited slip differentials mostly use clutches that eventually wear out.  If you buy a used truck with 100,000 miles or more on it, the lsd probably doesn't work anymore and would need rebuilding.

Regards
John
 
Wow some of these replies. This is how I look for a vehicle. I will pick several that I like and would own. Then I will save my money. Then search for the best deal i could find. The narrower you make your choices, the more you are going to pay.
That being said, your most capable off road van will be a full size with 4x4. The problem is no american full size van made a 4x4 from the factory. (I do not consider an Astro full size or 4x4). There are many conversion kits made for 4x4 vans and you can find them used, but they are expensive and you will need a good mechanic if things go wrong because the 4x4 contains custom parts or parts from other vehicles.
Mini vans are cars. They are built like cars and although some have AWD, it is mostly for wet or icy roads more than off roading. You will ground out very easily.
I think a domestic van 2x4 with a 3'' lift and a winch would be overall the best way to go. Maybe you should consider a truck with a camper if 4x4 is important.
One more van to consider is the VW Syncro, an 4x4 version of the Vanagan. It will go anywhere. I have seen videos of this thing and its crazy. The problem is the engine breaks alot, water cooled VWs suck in the 80s, but have seen them with Suburu, or Ford motor kits for up to $30k. Very pricey to do it right.
 
how much would a 3" lift cost on a 2WD astro?

i'd rather get something 2001-2005 kind of age for about 5k, nothing too prehistoric
 
steveh2112 said:
how much would a 3" lift cost on a 2WD astro?

i'd rather get something 2001-2005 kind of age for about 5k, nothing too prehistoric

About $300 to lift an Astro  http://www.overlandvans.com/0104_liftkits.html

I lifted my 95 Safari 2" and then gained another 1" with bigger tires.  

5.jpg
 
I grew up in a place where 99.9% of the roads were dirt. Most of the time I had a two wheel drive truck. I got around a lot and it was some work, but it is doable. I used chains a lot. A Hi Lift jack with chain and hooks is awesome and a must-have; they aren't dangerous if you use them correctly. Four wheel drive is nice, but it is expensive. Having a chainsaw is quite helpful, too, but not practical for a vandweller. Use a good spare and keep air in it. Lowering air pressure in the tires works amazingly well. Take one of those 12 volt air compressors with you. Take two! They're cheap. Bob has some recommendations for that somewhere on this site.

I would totally do Gross Reservoir in a two wheel drive without lockers when it is dry. You usually don't need a lift to put tires on that are a little bigger. I've always used stock tire size and it hasn't stopped me. I literally can't think of a time clearance was an issue for me, but I don't try to "four wheel". I just like to get to the cool places to hike or camp. I'm not into the stuff you see on TV. Larger tires are harder on the transmission/clutch and brakes so be aware of that extra cost.

Lockers are awesome, too. That will set you back around $700 or so. Lots cheaper than four wheel drive and no maintenance if you get the Torsion style locker. You can easily spend $1500 for lockers that are air or electric actuated.

I saw a Sprinter van today that was two wheel drive. The roof rack had a spare tire, at least two aluminum traction ramp thingys, larger tires, a winch on the front, and not sure what else. He was camping beside the road near Glacier National Park. I should have taken the time to stop and visit. I could've learned something. If he's there tomorrow, I won't be such a wuss and will stop.

I had purchased a 4X4 van, but it didn't work out. I'm glad it didn't because the parts to make it 4X4 are largely proprietary. Have fun finding parts for it and if you do find parts for an old van, have fun being able to afford it. You think 4X4 on a truck is expensive? Try a 4X4 van. Some parts are the same as a truck, but the mounts and tie rods can be a bugger.

A year ago I took my two wheel drive truck for a drive. Went down a road that was 21% grade. I knew that was steep, but since there were no other warning signs such as "4X4 only!", I went for it. Ended up breaking both motor mounts and the transmission mount driving out. $100 (maybe more. Can't remember) dollars in parts and about 10 hours of hard labor to replace it. This wasn't a trail, either. This maintain gravel road led to the river and was a boat launch to a popular fishing access site. Going where few go in a two wheel drive is fun, but be prepared. I do it all the time and rarely regret it; I usually know my limitations. I see lots of places in my S10. When I'm worried about where I'm going I drive the F250 4X4. I have no desire for rock crawling, so 4X4 gets me almost anywhere I desire. Heavy rains, flooding, wash outs, other people stuck in the road, or people that have hopelessly torn up the road, and the like are about the only things that stop me.

I've helped get a lot of people unstuck, but that gets old especially when they are drunk or otherwise being stupid. I'm OK with kids doing dumb things because that's how you learn, but the doofus adults try my patience. Most of the time they don't stop and get help, but bury themselves up to the axles making getting unstuck way, way harder. Sometimes I've been pulling them out and they keep digging and keep getting themselves stuck instead of letting me pull them out. Kind of part of the deal, though, because if I ever need help, I NEED help and don't ever want to be turned away.

Learn your equipment before getting out there!!! Put your chains on and off a few times. Use your method of winching yourself out a few times. Keep stuff lubed. Getting stuck sucks, but not knowing how to use your equipment or not maintaining it is really aggravating. I've neglected my stuff and paid the price a few times!
 
two great posts above, thanks guys.

about the lift kit, i was looking at this and it looks like quite a bit of work, certainly not something i could do my self. apart for the kit cost, what would be the shop cost on something like that?

also, not sure about the big tires, any thoughts from people about possible problems with big tires, extra wear on transmission, mpg etc?
 
some good advice here so far. here's my 2 cents. that road in the pic doesn't look to bad however lots of sharp rocks. for this you need heavy duty tires, drive slow a sharp rock will ruin a tire. 4x4 vans have many parts that you can't buy anywhere except from the conversion company assuming they are still in business. I would not do a suspension lift on any independent front suspension vehicles 2wd or 4wd, this never has good results. as far as body lifts, 1 inch max, anything more trouble starts. a $120.00 winch will not cut it, it's a toy. a locker/posi rear is the next best thing to 4x4, and in my opinion better than awd. awd is not 4x4. to get more ground clearance go with the largest tire that will not rub. being an experience driver is better than a 4x4. another thing about lifting vehicles your center of gravity moves higher, this becomes a problem on off camber roads. a skid plate is a band aid if you need one to protect your oil and tranny pan, you are probably in a vehicle that was never meant to go off road. I think I covered it. btw I worked in a 4x4 shop and have seen it all and heard it all. highdesertranger
 

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