Off topic posts split from "How do u live on $700/month, truly?"

[RearViewMirror]

I'm not sure I'd agree that using food stamps and other social services = a way to live cheaply.
At least, it's not in the same category as living frugally, doing without conveniences, learning to repair your rig, seeking out seasonal jobs, etc.

Benefits like food stamps and food banks are not cheap. Someone is paying for them. Someone is also paying indirectly for those internet and Amazon subsidies, and you can bet it's not Jeff Bezos.

This thread covers two very different questions --
(1) how to survive financial hard times that came on you uninvited, and
(2) how to afford a very attractive (but potentially expensive) lifestyle by living frugally.
Much of the information is the same for both questions. But using costly social services is only a legitimate solution to question #1.

I wholeheartedly support these services being there for people who genuinely need them. But they're not there to finance a preferred lifestyle. A good chunk of them is paid for, directly or indirectly, by working people, many of whom are themselves struggling to make ends meet and deferring their own dreams.

Maybe this ^^ seems self-evident, but I'll just feel better if it is said explicitly. I'm not trying to imply that anyone here doesn't know that or would advocate abusing these privileges.

So far almost no-one who has "responded" to my posts seems to have actually read them. I am not going to waste my time or yours trying a third time to say something that is clearly not being heard. If someone wants to know what I said, please read my post, not a post about my post. Thank you.

Oh... I've read them and I agree with you. I've just stayed out of the conversation (for a while) since I mentioned that "we" can't live on $700 a month. What I said seemed to ruffle some feathers but it is what it is. We can't live on $700 a month. I suppose if we were "forced" to we would have to figure out a way. But, so far, we are not in that position.

I realize others are.

But you bring up points that I personally agree with. Let me first start off by saying that I "personally" believe that everyone is entitled to quality healthcare no matter your income status. To me? Quality healthcare is a basic human right that we all should have. Unfortunately... The world doesn't work that way. The entire healthcare / insurance system needs an overhaul but I don't ever see that coming. So what we are stuck with is what we are stuck with. Believe me... I could go into great detail since my wife managed the charges from the largest hospital in the state. But that would take up the entire thread.

I broke down the cost of everything that "we" have to pay a while back in this thread so I won't go through that again. But I will mention that because my wife retired at age 48, the cost of "quality" insurance coverage is $480 a month for my wife and my 17 year old daughter (I have my own insurance that I took with me from the FD when I retired which is $151 a month). Their actual insurance policy is about $500 more each month but we are only out of pocket $480 a month. This is due to the ACA. We are living off of my pension and the amount we pay for the policy is based on the amount of federal taxes I pay each year. So the issue becomes, since I get a 3% cost of living increase every year that compounds upon itself for as long as I live, each year I will have to pay more for that insurance policy.
Please don't get me wrong. I am not complaining about this. No one "made" my wife retire at 48. It was something that we decided we wanted to do so we could do all of the traveling we wanted whenever we wanted. Not everyone is in the position that we are in and I completely understand.

But what this does do... It makes it very hard to touch our money that we have invested. Any money we remove from investments will automatically be counted as income. Thus raising the price of the insurance policy. So what this basically means is we have money making its on money but we can't touch it. At 59 1/2 I won't have a choice. I will have to start removing some of that money out of investments. Again... This is not a complaint. This is just the way the system is set up.

But you bring up a point about "uninvited hard times" and what you must do to actually be able to survive. And contrast that with people living what could potentially be an expensive lifestyle (it is for us) but using services that are actually meant for people that fall into the first group. And I agree with you. For those that truly need social services then I have no issue with that. People fall on hard times through no fault of their own and there needs to be some form of safety net to catch them. Unfortunately, many fall through the cracks. But I also agree that there is a "grey area" that people are taking advantage of. While it might look attractive, that program, subsidy, etc... isn't exactly meant for them. Someone has to pay for that and that someone is you, me, and everyone else that pays taxes. I suppose it could be argued that we are taking advantage of a subsidy since my wife was not fired, forced out of her job, or falls under a disability. This is a life we "chose". Nothing more. But that is just the way the insurance and entire healthcare system is set up. And until that changes? There really isn't much "we" can do about it when the fact remains that what we pay??? The insurance is built in with that government subsidy. There is no "opting out" of that subsidy since it is already built in to the policy.

I'm sure I'll get some flack for this post but, is what it is I suppose?

 

[rruff]

Quality healthcare is a basic human right that we all should have.

I wouldn't say it's a human right, but the cost of it is insane. The more expensive it gets, the less people can afford it.

I remember back in "the good old days", insurance hardly existed, and healthcare was cheap. Even poor people could afford it. Real per capita healthcare costs have gone up over 800% since 1960, while wages have barely risen.

 

[RearViewMirror]

I wouldn't say it's a human right, but the cost of it is insane. The more expensive it gets, the less people can afford it.

I remember back in "the good old days", insurance hardly existed, and healthcare was cheap. Even poor people could afford it. Real per capita healthcare costs have gone up over 800% since 1960, while wages have barely risen.

I agree with you. The issue is insurance. Before insurance came into play, healthcare was afforded to pretty much anyone that could make it to a Dr. (or the Dr. could make it to you).

Once the chargemaster for hospitals came into play, healthcare costs rose exponentially. And it was all because of insurance companies. The hospitals were in a no lose situation and the insurance companies that caused this issue were also in a no lose situation. Someone has to foot the bill and if that bill can not be paid? It will be passed on to the taxpayer while also putting a huge (sometimes life changing) burden on the patient. But it's an issue that I don't see ever being resolved as something viable for everyone unfortunately.

 

[user 36413]

SSI is social security income that you earned based on what you payed in for the many years you worked before you reach the age where you can collect it.

SSD is the one for disability. It may also be tied to how much you paid into Social security.

As far as I know, if you never paid anything in (say you were a housewife and didn't work outside the home) then you can't get anything from them as far as I know. It isn't charity but some folks don't know that.

If you are a veteran, disabled veteran, or the spouse of a deceased veteran there may be some small benefits available through the VA

There is no shame in getting any help you can or assistance if you can qualify. California may have better social services for folks which is one reason it's more expensive to live in CA.

Be very careful, there are horrible people in this world who would try to take what little you do get but I like to believe there are more people who are kind and helpful. Maybe I am just an old fool, I don't know.

 

[RearViewMirror]

SSI is social security income that you earned based on what you payed in for the many years you worked before you reach the age where you can collect it.

SSD is the one for disability. It may also be tied to how much you paid into Social security.

As far as I know, if you never paid anything in (say you were a housewife and didn't work outside the home) then you can't get anything from them as far as I know. It isn't charity but some folks don't know that.

We were exempt from SS on the FD. Instead we paid into our pension system and medicare. The only time I've paid into SS is when I was a teenager working for minimum wage, some odd jobs when I was in college, and about 8 months after I graduated college with my degree. The 28 years I worked on the FD we never paid a dime into SS. Last time I checked what my check would look like, assuming it is still around when I turn 65... It was only about $100 a month. So, needless to say, I won't be relying on SS.

When I retired from the FD I retired with 100% disability due to a house collapse while inside that damn near destroyed my back and neck (hence the reason for my wife retiring so soon so we can enjoy life for as long as possible). It didn't change my retirement nor my pay from my retirement. It just changed the retirement date. But I have paid so little into SS that I am not eligible for SSD (nor should I be entitled to it because I haven't paid into it). But, my pension more than makes up for anything SS could ever pay out.

As far as the cooking you brought up. We have an induction cooktop in our van but rarely use it. Small propane bottles are still cheap and they last quite a while. And we have a perfect spot to store them under the van where the sewer hose would normally be stored. But we have a cassette toilet so we don't have a need for a sewer hose so we can fit 5 or so in there and that will last us for months at a time. We do a lot of grilling with those and a lot of Instapot meals since they are quick, easy, and often very cheap.

 

[user 36413]

If I win the big Mega Millions jackpot I would like to buy some land and set up some kind of reserve where folks can come and live and maybe help them find ways to get back on their feet or to live cheaply on the land growing their own food and stuff. I'd partner with businesses that need people who can do work for them locally or online.

Imagine a place like the LTVA where you could have flush toilets, showers, trash receptacles, and free wifi and be part of a community or commune like place. I know, it's a pipe dream but that would be good I think.

<3

 

[rruff]

Imagine a place like the LTVA where you could have flush toilets, showers, trash receptacles, and free wifi and be part of a community or commune like place. I know, it's a pipe dream but that would be good I think.

I used to have that fantasy too. Nice piece of land, where people can camp or erect a simple dwelling, and have the toilet, shower, laundry, wifi, facilities around. Maybe a larger building for doing retreats. Easy living, nice community. Saw a 1,000 acre ranch for sale north of Silver City NM on Bear Creek... only $1M. Sweet spot. I think a Sufi organization bought it.

What you (and I) are describing is basically a campground/RV park... maybe with rules that make it long term. Very doable if you can fund getting it started and do the work.

 

[RearViewMirror]

Oh, nice but yeah expensive. I was looking at this one on Amazon, it's currently $89 and fuel is free (sticks, branches, pine cones, scrap wood). It's also insulated which is nice.

I have a new Coleman camp stove I use myself. I still have fond memories of camping with my family when I was a boy. No one wanted to get up in the morning we were all so cold sleeping under a tarp tent my dad made. He got up and made bacon, eggs, and home fries from those little white potatoes in a can. The smell of his cooking was enough to get us up and moving.

Lots of folks use a small backpackers stove. It has a small footprint which is nice when you don't have a lot of storage space.

I like that! I might have to pick one of those up. Not only for the occasional cooking but it would be nice that you can create a small campfire also (weather permitting).

 

[user 22017]

SSI is social security income that you earned based on what you payed in for the many years you worked before you reach the age where you can collect it.

SSD is the one for disability. It may also be tied to how much you paid into Social security.

As far as I know, if you never paid anything in (say you were a housewife and didn't work outside the home) then you can't get anything from them as far as I know. It isn't charity but some folks don't know that.

SSI is for the last paragraph you wrote above. It is for those who didn't pay enough into social security. Assuming those who never worked get SSI, as well.

Not everyone approved for disability gets SSD. If you did not pay enough into SS, you will receive SSI (even though you have a disability). SSI is a smaller payout.

 

[RearViewMirror]

Not everyone approved for disability gets SSD. If you did not pay enough into SS, you will receive SSI (even though you have a disability). SSI is a smaller payout.

Exactly the situation I'm in with SSD. I "qualify" but, I paid so little into SS I get no pay for SSD and that's fine. I didn't pay into it so I don't deserve any pay just because I had to take a disability retirement. I spent my entire career putting as much money into my retirement system, deferred comp, Roth IRA's, etc... as I possibly could. So whether I retired normally or I retired with full disability (meaning I can no longer do "that" job), I still bring home the same amount of money since I was at the 28 year mark when the incident happened. The FD is 28 and out. I started the job at 21 and retired at 48. The last 6 months I spent on the job were in the hospital and at home healing. There was no way for me to come back from those injuries. But it was time to leave anyway. The only benefit that I get for taking a disability retirement is I pay no state income tax in the state that I keep my home address in.

So when I turn 65 and I happen to get that $100 or so a month for the small amount of money I contributed? That's just $100 a month more than I had.

 

[user 22017]

Exactly the situation I'm in with SSD. I "qualify" but, I paid so little into SS I get no pay for SSD and that's fine. I didn't pay into it so I don't deserve any pay just because I had to take a disability retirement.

Another reason you wouldn't want SSI, is because in the rules you aren't allowed to have much of anything (money wise). If you do come into a chunk of money you have X number of days to get rid of it (buy something).

This isn't for you, but if anyone is contemplating a divorce, or is living with their partner (not married), you need to know that if your spouse dies and you were not married for 10 years... you get no death benefits. Your underage kids will. But you won't.

Actually, you get one year of death benefits. The father of my kids died and even though we had four kids and were together for eleven years, I only got benefits for one year. Must be married for minimum 10 years to get death benefits.

 

[RoamerRV428]

I've just stayed out of the conversation (for a while) since I mentioned that "we" can't live on $700 a month. What I said seemed to ruffle some feathers but it is what it is. We can't live on $700 a month. I suppose if we were "forced" to we would have to figure out a way. But, so far, we are not in that position.


I'm sure I'll get some flack for this post but, is what it is I suppose?

I liked your post. telling it like it is for you and your walk thru 'life on finances' and as it has to work as you maneuver thru it. No flack from me on that one LOL

I ain't living on 700 either but if I HAD to, darn right I would do just that cause if I HAD to then it is what it is but MANY here are not this low of monthly income at all so?

One thing on subsidy and healthcare options etc is IT IS available if one qualifies and if one even has money in the bank it means one can still thru 'low income' get a great subsidy for a great healthcare plan..........so in a way the human right you kinda are saying is trying to be given but of course so many shades of gray out there on qualifications and what subisidy one gets and still can afford on what plan.

like take a 60 yr old lady widowed with some health issues. has a home and land in big pricey location. property worth 3 million. she ain't selling but she has 'no income' really thru SS etc that can get her decent medical insurance at a real affordable price. The healthcare thru govt requires no 'finances' thru assets owned. It is based on what is your income for the year and then a subsidy can hit. and make healthcare affordable to one 'who is a millinaire' on assets but is cash poor per month truly. SO I think there is a sad but doable round about way to help many but ya know, like you said, hmmm, on it all as the world has to be manuevered thru crazy requirements and more at all times but some can benefit to a good degree on who we are.

If I posted what we do and what we get and what assets we own and how we work the system people would go bat crazy on what I post but I won't do that cause I also know that for over 40 yrs we paid big into the system also so we paid our dues. Now we take some dues back all legally thru the govt as how it rolls of course they allow it, I am taking advantage of it. Like I said, we paid so ......

 

[tx2sturgis]

SSI is social security income that you earned based on what you payed in for the many years you worked before you reach the age where you can collect it.

SSD is the one for disability. It may also be tied to how much you paid into Social security.

Just a minor correction: SSI and SSD are 'needs based' benefits.

Social Security Retirement Benefit is the benefit based on eligibility determined by your age and how much you paid in over your working life, and that is the one that is not based on 'needs'

I collect retirement benefits, and yes I 'NEED' them but they are paid to me since I am eligible based on me having paid in for decades, and I can collect that benefit whether I 'need' the money or not.

 

[D'L]

SSI and SSD are not the same thing, and I have encountered a lot of people who confuse the two.

You do not get SSD (Social Security Disability) unless you are "officially" disabled. Meaning you have to apply, and it is their opinion that counts, which is often not your reality. Some people seem to get it right away others wait for years or don't get approved at all.

SSI (Supplemental Security Income) is for everyone, IF you or your employer paid Social Security Tax during the years you were working. If you were self employed, it was called a "self employment tax", but was really payment into Social Security. If your employer did not pay into Social Security or you worked under the table and did not report your earnings and did not pay the tax in to Social Security, you won't have any SSI account and you won't get any SSI money. You have to have worked paying those taxes to a minimum amount of money earned to be eligible.

It doesn't matter if you are broke or have a million dollars in the bank, if you are eligible for SSI and apply for it when you become of age to be eligible, you will get that money. How much you get will depend on how much you or your employer(s) paid into it, which depends on how much money you earned and for how many years. It also doesn't matter if you have a huge pension from your former work; you will still get SSI.

Working at minimum wage all your life means not much was paid in, so your payments will be small. If you made $100,000 or more a year every year you worked and paid into SSI, your payments will be much larger. This is because SSI is Not charity or assistance for low income people. So, SSI is not for people who didn't pay enough into the fund while working. A person who didn't pay enough in will need to find some government assistance program.

It might be noted that Social Security was never intended to be what people live on when they retire, and it was not set up in a way that truly allows for that. It was always intended, and still is, as only supplemental income. Unfortunately, as we all know, more and more people are trying to live on that income alone because for many different reasons they have to. The program was set up in a time in this country that is very long past.

You can apply for SSD....Disability..... at any age. You have to be a certain age to apply for SSI, as it is only for older people.

Pretty sure all these statements are true and verifiable, but if I am wrong about something feel free to correct me.

 

[D'L]

Just a minor correction: SSI and SSD are 'needs based' benefits.

My understanding is that SSI is not needs based. If you paid enough in, you get SSI. Doesn't matter if you "need" it or not.
SSD is, of course, needs based.

 

[D'L]

OK....sorry, I am wrong.
SSI and Social Security are not the same so I am full of it.

What I said is true of Social Security, but social Security is not SSI. I have been calling it that, but it is not. Confusing. But I have it straight now!

Unlike Social Security benefits, SSI benefits are not based on your prior work or a family member's prior work. SSI is financed by general funds of the U.S. Treasury--personal income taxes, corporate and other taxes.

 

[tx2sturgis]

 

[rruff]

like take a 60 yr old lady widowed with some health issues. has a home and land in big pricey location. property worth 3 million. she ain't selling but she has 'no income' really thru SS etc that can get her decent medical insurance at a real affordable price. The healthcare thru govt requires no 'finances' thru assets owned. It is based on what is your income for the year and then a subsidy can hit. and make healthcare affordable to one 'who is a millinaire' on assets but is cash poor per month truly. SO I think there is a sad but doable round about way to help many but ya know, like you said, hmmm, on it all as the world has to be manuevered thru crazy requirements and more at all times but some can benefit to a good degree on who we are.

Reminds me of something that there was a lot of buzz about a few years ago... how the rich keep from paying taxes.

For instance someone could retire young and have all their assets in stocks that don't pay dividends. Instead of selling some stock periodically to pay their bills, they take out a portfolio loan... basically loan money to themselves. This is not considered income, so no tax... and since many welfare programs are strictly income based, they can also qualify for free healthcare and food!

Financial advisors make big bucks figure all this out and making it legal...

 

[RearViewMirror]

I liked your post. telling it like it is for you and your walk thru 'life on finances' and as it has to work as you maneuver thru it. No flack from me on that one LOL

I ain't living on 700 either but if I HAD to, darn right I would do just that cause if I HAD to then it is what it is but MANY here are not this low of monthly income at all so?

One thing on subsidy and healthcare options etc is IT IS available if one qualifies and if one even has money in the bank it means one can still thru 'low income' get a great subsidy for a great healthcare plan..........so in a way the human right you kinda are saying is trying to be given but of course so many shades of gray out there on qualifications and what subisidy one gets and still can afford on what plan.

like take a 60 yr old lady widowed with some health issues. has a home and land in big pricey location. property worth 3 million. she ain't selling but she has 'no income' really thru SS etc that can get her decent medical insurance at a real affordable price. The healthcare thru govt requires no 'finances' thru assets owned. It is based on what is your income for the year and then a subsidy can hit. and make healthcare affordable to one 'who is a millinaire' on assets but is cash poor per month truly. SO I think there is a sad but doable round about way to help many but ya know, like you said, hmmm, on it all as the world has to be manuevered thru crazy requirements and more at all times but some can benefit to a good degree on who we are.

If I posted what we do and what we get and what assets we own and how we work the system people would go bat crazy on what I post but I won't do that cause I also know that for over 40 yrs we paid big into the system also so we paid our dues. Now we take some dues back all legally thru the govt as how it rolls of course they allow it, I am taking advantage of it. Like I said, we paid so ......

That's kind of the issue we face right now. Not so much with assets since we don't own land or a house anymore. The vast majority of that money went into our investments. We have money we can pull out of an emergency fund that doesn't count as income. But that money isn't making us any money either. But we can transfer it at anytime and it doesn't count as income. But if we pull $1 out of our investments? That is income. And I get it... Our money is making money for us so it should be taxed. The only investments that don't fall under this are Roth IRA's as the interest is non taxable. But there are two considerations to remember with a Roth IRA.

1: It was taxed "before" being invested. So there is an upfront "cost" that must be considered.

2: Since we both retired at such a young age, the Roth IRA is still not taxed if we remove any money from that investment since it was taxed "before" being put into that investment. But it "is" considered "income". I lacked the foresight to see what might happen so far in the future about my wife retiring early and healthcare as a whole. So even if we just took the interest from that investment and removed it, it wouldn't be "taxable" income but it would still raise my federal income tax filing. Meaning that we have to pay more for health insurance.

This goes with any money we remove from any investments that we have been paying into over the years. Mine are split between deferred comp and Roth IRA's. No matter which one we pull from, we will pay more for health insurance.

Once again... Saying all of that I am not complaining. It's just the way the system works. In reality??? We have zero assets (not counting money invested) since we live out of a van. An van that is financed I might add. Some would say what we are doing is a very stupid decision and at times??? I might be inclined to agree lol. But... We can travel 2 miles down the road or 200 miles down the road without a timeframe. It is a permanent vacation. We pay no utilities, no real estate tax, and no bills that come with owning a traditional "sticks and bricks" like we had for 17 years before we sold our house. But we are also building no equity other than what our money is building for itself. So we have plenty of money but can't really touch it for two reasons.

1: If we take it out, we will pay more for health insurance

2: If we take it out, it lowers the amount of interest that that money creates.

I know (now) that this thread was created on the question of how someone can truly live on $700 a month. And I understand that many "have" no choice but to stretch their money and resources as far as they possibly can and take advantage of every available option given to them just to survive. Then there are people like us that it becomes a balancing act on how to make it work "for us". I don't take for granted the position we are in at the moment. We are lucky that (so far) we haven't had any major health issues. But that will change one day. I understand that we are living outside the lines of what is considered normal for any person our age. But I'm not one to live in between the lines. One day though... all of this will change. We don't live forever nor are we guaranteed tomorrow.

How long will this last? 1 year, 5 years, 6 months? No idea? I just know that when I'm lying on my deathbed thinking back over my life that I would have regrets for not taking this leap when we had the chance.

SSI and SSD are not the same thing, and I have encountered a lot of people who confuse the two.

You do not get SSD (Social Security Disability) unless you are "officially" disabled. Meaning you have to apply, and it is their opinion that counts, which is often not your reality. Some people seem to get it right away others wait for years or don't get approved at all.

You are correct. I applied even though I knew if I were to get anything it would be very small. I was approved but due to paying in so little I was not entitled to SSD. Which is fine. I didn't pay in so I shouldn't expect to get a payout for something I paid very little into.

 

[rruff]

How long will this last? 1 year, 5 years, 6 months? No idea? I just know that when I'm lying on my deathbed thinking back over my life that I would have regrets for not taking this leap when we had the chance.

Freedom is priceless...peace.