Need help with Van electrical

[cinemaphonic]

Hey guys,

I need help installing my solar panel and setting up my house marine batteries, etc. I've realized that although I could probably figure out how to do this, I'm not sure I want to. Instead I'd like to hire someone to show me how to do it properly so I don't die in an electrical fire in the middle of the night.

If anyone is in or around Milwaukee (I can also travel to you), I'd be willing to pay you to help me out with this. I have all the materials (batteries, panel, fuse box, etc.). I just need to pick up some wire and sealant.

Let me know if anyone is interested. I realize that because of the weather this might be a long shot because I'm sure most of you are out in more agreeable weather areas, but just thought I'd give it a shot.

Thanks!

 

[steven84]

Lots of questions here.

I did the solar and battery installation myself after a TON of forum research.

First let me ask the following questions and go from there.

- What are the solar panels? Specify Brand, model, specs.
- How many?
- Do you have a Solar Regulator?

Solar Regulator controls bursts of power so it won't damage your batteries.

- What battery do you have?
- How many batteries?
- Are you trying to produce the output of 12v or 24v?

- Do you want to charge your house batteries while driving?

- Where will you physically place the batteries? Inside or underneath vehicle?

Technically it's all quite easy if you pay attention. Just never ever do something stupid like me and only connect one battery of the two and decide to connect the second battery at 1am after drinking a few beers...and big thanks to OPTIMA blue top batteries for not outlining the RED and BLACK for dummies like myself And yes, months of driving, the second, non connected battery shifted. Zap. Zap

 

[VanLifeCrisis]

yeah, be cure to prevent them from sliding. i used rubber mat under them, then blocked them in with wood. as another solution i used l brackets on all the corners. id like to get a strap over em. i learned this lesson after taking a hard curve too fast and they slid, ripping crimps apart. pain to redo.

its really simple tho to do the solar depending on your setup.

 

[steven84]

I eventually moved them under the bed along with the inverter, this way I don't hear that inverter noise going

Braced it with wood so it wouldn't slide around, like it had before.

If you notice, I placed a RED TAPE on one side...in case I have another 1am adding another battery situation

 

[ccbreder]

The problem is the inverter has the potential to spark someplace in there. The batteries have the potential to emit hydrogen gas. Both in the same box increases the danger.

 

[akrvbob]

Inverters do not like heat, being in the box like that may increase it. The only Go-Power inverter I ever owned had a loud fan that ran all the time so that may not be a problem, it may be a plus to have it boxed up.

That inverter broke a year and a day after I bought it. I won't own another one by Go-Power.
Bob

 

[SternWake]

All electronics age faster, the hotter they get. Heat cycling, hot and cold, is also detrimental, and slowing down how fast the temperature of components rises and falls will extend lifespan.

While batteries normally do not offgas during discharge, having an inverter inside the same enclosure as flooded batteries is very unwise as the sulfuric acid mist expelled when charging is very corrosive as well as a known carcinogen.

Batteries need more than just skid proof matts under them. If the Vehicle goes wheels up, the batteries need to stay put. Anything less is simply dangerous, and extremely unwise

 

[steven84]

This is good info. I didn't know this.

Luckily nothing extreme ever happened (knock on wood) but definitely something I will think about when I build my next rig.

I plan on getting an Onan 2800 watt generator so I can run this Climate Right 2500 BTU AC and Heater combo that will be released in April 2015

I did the math, bank of batteries $1600 + Solar Panels $500 + Regulator $150 + Inverter $1000 (3k watt puresine)...that it'd be cheaper to have a generator and I can expand my electrical by 10 fold!

 

[cdiggy]

$1600 will buy a lot of batteries!

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

I plan on getting an Onan 2800 watt generator so I can run this Climate Right 2500 BTU AC and Heater combo that will be released in April 2015

I did the math, bank of batteries $1600 + Solar Panels $500 + Regulator $150 + Inverter $1000 (3k watt puresine)...that it'd be cheaper to have a generator and I can expand my electrical by 10 fold!

Well, cheaper in the short term. At $3 a gallon gas, the solar set up makes far better sense long term.

And don't even get me started on generator noise . . .

Regards
John

 

[steven84]

The way I just calculated would be;

$1600 in batteries (4 x 250 Ah batteries)
$400 in solar panels
$130 solar regulator
$200 battery charger (100amp/hour)
$1000 for a 3k watt pure sine inverter
$200 in cables, adapters, fuse and more
= $3,530

Now if you estimate how much you'd actually get from solar. 68 watts an hour or 4.1 Amps charging rate hourly by THREE PANELS = 12.3 amps charging rate per hour. On average you get about 5-6 hours of truly powerful, worthy sun-charging ability.

Let's be generous. 6 hours x 12.3 amps each hour meaning each day you get 73.8 amps charged into the battery.

Not including loss through inverter usage.

That 73 amps barely gives me enough juice to power my morning breakfast let alone last me for days and days or cooking.

Coffee machine, 10 minutes, 450 watts.
Table top stove, 800 watts, 45 minutes (cooks bacon eggs, pancakes)
Microwave (700 watts) for 2 minutes (to warm the ceramic plates)

Warming ceramic plates is important. Keeps the food warm.

I've learned on my next van conversion. I will use a lp gas hose and use a table top gas stove. To also use maybe a lp gas fridge and not the dometic cooler fridge even though it uses minimal power.

ClimateRightAir is coming out with a dual heater and AC machine for $450 (2500 btu) which is just big enough for a sprinter.

Back to my point in costs of all.

I'd probably just get one bank 250 Ah battery. One 1500 watt pure sine. Two solar strips and a window for the middle roof part so I can see them stars at night! But most importantly only run lights, monitor and small misc things on the solar setup as the expense would not exceed $1000 and you wouldn't need run the genny all day for small misc things.

 

[ccbreder]

100 amp battery charger?

 

[steven84]

100 amp battery charger?

Yep.

http://www.amazon.com/Go-Power-GPC-...s_auto_17?ie=UTF8&refRID=0TKBJMJAQ56PA6H7B5SD

 

[ccbreder]

With just a quick look, I think that is over kill. JM2C

 

[steven84]

With just a quick look, I think that is over kill. JM2C

It is however if you're calculating gas costs (generator hours operating) to charge the bank of batteries you have. Sometimes saving the 3-6 hours additional time is well worth-while.

Or if and when you visit family or friends for a short period of time and having the ability to hook up to any 110 volt outlet to do a quick charge.

I suppose every little helps.

But then again I am a guy travelling around with 3 backup batteries of 13,000 MAH each, haha.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Yep.

http://www.amazon.com/Go-Power-GPC-...s_auto_17?ie=UTF8&refRID=0TKBJMJAQ56PA6H7B5SD

Did you notice that the description at Amazon mentioned that it came with a 20 amp plug?

I checked the specs in the online owners manual pdf. It draws 17 amps and has a maximum inrush current of 40 amps.

You're not going to be able to plug this in to any 15 amp outlets when you visit with relatives, it will pop their circuit breaker.

You'll need a dedicated 20 amp circuit, or you could plug it in to a 30 amp service at a commercial campground.

Regards
John

 

[steven84]

You'll need a dedicated 20 amp circuit, or you could plug it in to a 30 amp service at a commercial campground.

Regards
John

Good info.

Thanks for looking this up.

I haven't bought the 100amp yet mostly because I had the 45amp one. It's just the 45 amp one took 8 hours to charge my current bank of batteries and I figured a larger charger would get the job done quicker!



Happy holidays!

 

[ccbreder]

Every battery has specifications as to how fast you can recharge safely. Some times a charge can be too fast.

 

[SternWake]

Some lesser$ AGM batteries say to recharge at no more than 30amps per 100 amp hour battery, while some higher $$ AGMs like odyssey say to use no less than 40 amps for a 100 amp hour battery when it is deeply cycled.

When generator charging, one desires to shoehorn in as much as possible into the battery in the shortest time possible.
Very few chargers allow this. Even higher amp chargers do not hold absorption voltage long enough.

The Powwermax PM4 100 amp charger is Power factor corrected. It Will run off a standard 15 amp household plug, but onve it reaches 14.6 volts, it instantly reverts to 13.6.

Powermax now sells, and only through bestconverter.com, a 100 amp powermax with a manual voltage pot. This is a manual charger, and one can choose voltages to 14.8v, and the unit will output 100 amps into a battery until battery voltage approaches 14.8v before amps taper.

This is simply the fastest way to recharge a battery, but it can also overcharge a battery if left on for too long.

It is the battery that decides how much amperage it can acceot at the electrical pressure(voltage) pushing those amps.

Many batteries have a recommended rate, and this is good to follow, when one has all the time in the world to recharge fully, but that recommended rate is way to slow when one has 3 hours of generator run time to get the battery as close to fully charged as possible.

While Some AGMs say no more than 30%, I've not seen a flooded battery set a maximum.

I regularly feed my USbattery group 31, that has a recommended rate of 13 amps, 41 amps from my meanwell rsp-500-15, and my alternator will feed it 75 amps or more when it is depleted. Its got over 300 deep cycles on it now, still mets my needs.

Low amp chargers are fine and dandy when one has days to plug into the grid and let an automatic charger do its thing.
generator charging is another animal, and the battery would much prefer being force fed at a high rate to reach as high a state of charge as possible before that generator gets shut down.

Getting a charger which does not neuter the charge profile by prematurely dropping charging voltages is an issue. My meanwell rsp500-15 is awesome but is a manual charger. The powermax boondocker sold through bestconverter.com that also has adjustable voltage is another good charger for minimum time recharging.

Lots of chargers out there and the marketing is superb, but the performance is lackluster when generator time s limited.

most chargers/converters are fine for when one has a minimum of 12 hours on grid power, but full timing, with a generator, one needs a charger which is going to allow high amps and high absorption voltages to be held the whole time the generator is running, and preferably enough solar to do the last 10% after the genny is shut down.

Anything less is going to compromise the health of the batteries, and possible very quickly. Day 10 after reaching only 85% state of charge, and those batteries won;t have 85% of their capacity to give, but a significant percentage less, and a serious 100% recharge followed with equalization cycle will be needed to get them back near 100%. If an EQ is not perfomed, then the batteries are doomed. to perform like crap until they are prematurely recycled.

The power max adjustable voltage units in the 75 amp and higher flavors are power factor corrected, and will run on a standard 15 amp household receptacle, but obviously the generator needs to be of sufficient wattage to power one.

 

[ccbreder]

Read this link about how Optimum recommends charging your expensive batteries. The temperature is important. The maximum voltage is important.
http://www.optimabatteries.com/en-us/support/battery-care/charging/