My Van Has a Mind of it's Own! - Help!!

[Ziggy Moon]

Hey Guys, Sorta new here, so I'm not sure where to post this question (looked for mechanical topics). I'm sorry if I've posted it in the wrong place - But I'm Needing Some Help..<br><br>Anyway, Here's my Problem;<br><br>I have been experiencing <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><em>sporadic stalls when decelerating or coming to a stop</em></span>. <br><br>At first I was thinking bad gas or water/moisture in gas tank - so I bought some sea foam and added it to the tank, I also sprayed the carb with cleaner and replaced the air filter. After doing these things I literally tried to duplicate a stall occurrence... but the van ran like a champ.... until it decided a week later to stall at just the wrong moment, again!<br><br>The van runs great, no hesitation when floored, and cooling system is working fine (not running hot). ...... But, as I've stated, the stalling is very very sporadic - whenever it feels like it, during deceleration or coming to stop. <br><br>However, after about a five to ten minute wait at wherever it decided to stall, it cranks right up and runs like nothing ever happened..... post-stall it could run a few days to a week or more before I have another moment of waiting in the middle of the road. &nbsp; <br><br><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">Has Anyone Experienced Stall Problems Like This???</span></strong><br><br><strong>Other things I'm thinking may be the problem</strong>:<br><br>* Bad Fuel Filter - But wouldn't this cause hesitation during acceleration???<br> * Bad Fuel Pump - Again, hesitation during acceleration???<br>* Complete Tune-up??<br><br><strong>My other thought - and <span style="text-decoration: underline;">I'm Hoping this isn't the case</span></strong>:<br><br>* Bad Computer - Please say it ain't so! How would I determine this for certain without going to a shop? Is it possible to troubleshoot the computer without placing it on a diagnostic machine?<br><br><strong>Maintenance and Repairs I've done within the past year</strong> that shouldn't have had any effect to cause stalling - at least I don't think it would have:<br><br>Replaced:&nbsp;<br><ul><li>Radiator (March Last Year)</li><li>Hoses (March Last Year)</li><li>Belts (March Last Year)</li><li>Water Pump, More Hoses and Heat Sensor (Two Weeks Ago - yeah, should've changed these parts when doing the above other parts last March - ugh!)</li></ul><br>Maintenance - Van "<strong>IS DUE</strong>" for a complete Tune-up: <br><ul><li>Recently Changed Air Filter</li><li>Topped-up oil</li><li>Topped-up Trans Fluid</li></ul><br><strong>1993 Dodge B250 Hightop Conversion - V8 - 5.2L - 318 - Auto</strong><br><br>I'm mechanically inclined and usually do my own work, but I'm needing help/advice in pinpointing the problem ........&nbsp; Thanks in advance

 

[wrcsixeight]

Do you know if yours is a magnum engine or not? &nbsp;Does it have 2 fuel injectors or 8? &nbsp;Last year with a carb was 87 for a 318 and 88 for a 360.<br><br>I am never sure if magnum engines started in 93 or 94.<br><br>I have a bunch of ideas if it is not a magnum engine, and a few if it is.<br><br>But mutual to both engines, &nbsp;Number 1, carb cleaner in the throttle body, can ruin the O2 sensor$$ &nbsp;<br>Do not use Bosch 02 sensors in a Dodge. &nbsp;NTK &nbsp;brand only, perhaps denso.<br><br>Any weird seemingly electrical issue, one must eliminate bad grounds.<br><br>If there is any white or green corrosion on either battery cable, replace it.<br><br>Follow the thick black cable from battery (-) to engine, remove from engine, make it shiny and retighten. Do the same for the wire which goes from battery to firewall.<br><br>Adding a ground cable from engine to frame is wise too.<br><br>Wiggle the connectors on the engine computer and see if you can make it stall, or make relays click on and off with the engine off, ignition on.<br><br>There is no real way to test the engine computer without replacing it with a known good unit. &nbsp;If it refuses to start when cold, &nbsp;then heating the engine computer with a hair dryer allows it to start, this is a good indication it is bad.<br><br>If the stalling increases in frequency but at seemingly random times, &nbsp;computer<br><br>Make sure the wire bundles leading to the transmission are not chafing in the slipstream. &nbsp;This was the cause of my ECM failure in my '89.<br><br>Seafoam's reputation is out of proportion to its results in my opinion, as an in tank fuel system cleaner. &nbsp;It is 60% rubbing alcohol. &nbsp;We already have too much alcohol in our gas in the US, I am not going to add more.<br><br>Fuel system cleaners with PEA(poly ether amine) are proven to clean deposits without leaving any of their own. &nbsp;Redline SL-1, techron, Gumout regane, CRC GTP among a few others contain good amount of PEA. &nbsp;It has a distinct fishy smell.

 

[Ziggy Moon]

Awesome wrcsixeight - Thank You So Very Much!<br><span id="post_message_1278020616"><br>Yes, it is a magnum, and yes, I sprayed the </span><span id="post_message_1278020616">throttle body with carb cleaner..... now I feel stupid for not knowing better - but, Live and Learn, Doh!<br><br>Yep, some of your thoughts on electrical issues - battery cables, </span>wire <span id="post_message_1278020616">bundles leading to the transmission all make sense and may be a real possibility. <br><br>Even though there is no corrosion around the battery terminals I will also be sure to take your advice and do a inspection and good clean-up and grounding on the cables. I will also add, if needed, a </span><span id="post_message_1278020616"><span id="post_message_1278020616">ground cable from engine to frame</span>.<br><br>I have WIGGLED the computer to see if I would stall the engine - No Stall Occurred - and I've never had issues with a no start when cold. <br><br>The stalling has been happening for some time now (5 -6 months). It is very sporadic and infrequent (can go a day, week, or longer before another stall). B</span><span id="post_message_1278020616"><span id="post_message_1278020616">ut then again, the distance and time I spend actually driving the Van is also sporadic and infrequent - more time driving around, may result in more stalls. I drove it about 10 miles there and back yesterday without any problems. <br><br></span>max number of stalls in one day occurred about one month ago - three stalls while driving the distance of about 3 miles in one trip - creeped it back home. <br><br>Thank you for the info on Sea Foam and the alternatives you've suggested - <br><br>Also, </span><span id="post_message_1278020616">wrcsixeight - what were your thoughts on the fuel filter or fuel pump and the stalling only during deceleration and stops??<br><br><strong>Thank You Again for the Great Advice!!!&nbsp;<img src="/images/boards/smilies/thumb.gif" class="emoticon bbc_img"></strong> <br><br><br></span>

 

[wrcsixeight]

Glad to be of help.<br><br>I am less familiar with the magnum engines.<br><br>One thing to highly suspect is the fuel pump. &nbsp;If this only occurs with half a tank of gas or less then bingo. &nbsp;Worn pumps create more heat, and being submerged helps keep them cooler.<br><br>Sometimes just rapping hard on the fuel tank itself with a fist will allow the fuel pump to sputter to life. &nbsp;You should be able to hear the fuel pump when the key is turned to on, for about 3 to 5 seconds. &nbsp;Take note of this sound, even if you have to stick your ear to the fuel inlet and have somebody cycle the key to on, not start.<br><br>If after it stalls again, you do not hear this noise when turning the ignition to on, not start, bingo.<br><br>Fuel pump replacement requires dropping the tank, and with magnum engines the whole assembly needs to be replaced, and there are a lot of reports of short service life from replacements, so no cheaping out on this. &nbsp;I think there is a way to replace just the fuel pump within the pump assembly on MAgnum engine MPFI systems but do not know how much fineagling is required.<br><br>I replaced my fuel pump on the side of the road in Baja, with the help of a local rancher. Unfortunately I still had 25+ gallons in the tank when it failed, making lowering it a task. &nbsp;The pump had gotten noisier in the weeks before it failed. &nbsp;Don't rely on keeping the tank more than half full to ward off the behavior, it will eventually die completely. &nbsp;Better to plan for the repair in advance with a place to lift the rear end up high enough to get the tanks dropped and out from under.<br><br> All I needed was the pump itself, and sock filter, and they are still in there doing their job 7 years later.<br><br>Dodgetalk and Dodge forum have B van specific subforums and is where I have learned a great deal about my van and other year dodge's too.

 

[dominique21]

Sounds like the same problems I was having with my car a few years back. It would run good, but then after running for a while it would stall whenever I would apply the brakes at a stop sign or stop light. I would then wait 5-10 minutes and it would run like nothing ever happened. It turned out to be the 'torque converter clutch'. It was a easy fix, all the mechanic did was crawl under the front of my car and flipped a switch. The last time I got my car serviced the mechanic must of accidently turned that switch. I never new that switch was there.

 

[Ziggy Moon]

<span id="post_message_1278021030">Another bulls-eye, wrcsixeight!<br><br>Yes, the stalling does seem to occur when fuel gauge is closer to 1/4 tank mark... this is what originally lead me to think that I may have some bad/watery gas in the tank or that something was happening somewhere along the fuel line (filter and/or pump). <br><br>Is the stall during deceleration or stop, any indication of the above mentioned?&nbsp; &nbsp; <br></span>

 

[wrcsixeight]

I wouldn't think decellerating would cause a failing and overheated fuel pump to take a rest. I don't see how that could be directly related but that does not mean that it cannot.&nbsp;<br><br>When My tank is really low, braking going down hill is enough to stall my engine. &nbsp;I try not to let the tank get that low.<br><br><br><br>&nbsp;

 

[Ziggy Moon]

Well be it Fuel Pump or Computer - Looks like I'll be forking out a good chuck of change.<br><br>Maybe it's just the battery cables........... I can still hope. <img src="/images/boards/smilies/frown.gif" class="emoticon bbc_img">

 

[wrcsixeight]

Well, eliminate the grounds as issues, and the next time it stalls, see if you can hear the fuel pump, and get it to sputter after slamming your fist into the tank. Yes the pump modules or PCM,s are not cheap. &nbsp;I don't know if that era PCM needs to be 'flashed' at the dealer, but &nbsp;computer replacement is simple compared to dropping the tank.<br><br>Also the next time it stalls and wont restart, try disconnecting the battery cable and turning the ignition to start for 15 seconds to drain the capacitors. &nbsp;if she fires right up after returning the battery cable, more likely the PCM

 

[MK7]

You said you added Seafoam to the gas tank. Try adding it to the intake now by having it sucked in by one of the hoses. Let it sit a while and then run the motor for a nice smoke show. It will clean all the carbon buildup in the intake.&nbsp; A risk however, is that if it's really badly gunked up in there, a chunk too big may come out and clog up your cats. This never happened to me though on cars that never had the intake cleaned that were over 12+ years old with 140k miles at least.<br><br>

 

[gymrat]

My 2006 RV built on a Chevy gas cutaway van 6.0 engine had a fuel pump problem. When I pulled into town one day and ran into traffic congestion the engine started to sputter and as I pulled into a parking lot it died. After a few minutes it started up. A day or two later on the highway running at 65 mph I felt the engine lose power. Had RV checked at garage and they said I had "lean burn indications" they suspected a fuel pump problem and told me to keep gas tank at least half full, and try not to drive in hottest part of day. Had no more problems, but had fuel pump replaced .

 

[scottrod31]

vacuum leak?

 

[James AKA Lynx]

IAC valve is on the throttle body. Take it off, clean and replace. Mine was broken and did the same thing. Needs to be cleaned every few thousand miles.<br><br>Lots on the Dodge Forum on this.<br><br>James AKA Lynx

 

[Ziggy Moon]

I agree wrcsixeight - a computer change out would be less of a job; provided the first one bought is in working order. I had an experience with a Jeep computer change out, it took the third PCM (faulty part, store return) to get it back up and running. Very Aggravating!! <br><br>@ MK7 - Thank you for including the video!<br><br>@ gymrat - My problem is sounding more and more like a fuel pump issue, Thank You!<br><br>@ Lynx - I will definitely add this to the list of great advice to follow (clean IAC valve), Thank You! <br><br><br><br>

 

[James AKA Lynx]

After you do this, check/run for a little. then take off the negative battery terminal for 15 min to a day to reset the computer.<br><br>Inspect the carb and spray carb cleaner on all moving parts.<br><br>James AKA Lynx

 

[ZOFCHAK]

&nbsp; My 96' Dodge van with the 3.9 used to eat O2 sensors for lunch, and this was one of the issues that would result.&nbsp; Odds are even if it isn't the problem they're probably due for a change anyhow and it should help in your MPG. I used to get aftermarket ones with just the stripped wires on Ebay for $20 a piece

 

[James AKA Lynx]

How did you get it to stop eating the o2 sensors?<br><br>I have a 97 with the same engin and I have not replaced the O2 sensor yet. I have idle issues, changing RPM's and rough.<br><br>James AKA Lynx

 

[ZOFCHAK]

I never did..&nbsp; The last couple years that I owned the van I just changed them out every 10K miles or so.&nbsp;&nbsp; I had rebuilt the van from the ground up using a drive train from a low mileage wrecked donor and a clean Southern body that had 298K miles on the original motor and trans when the engine locked up.&nbsp; I put about 50K miles on it before it developed a fault in the wiring harness that caused it to go through 2 ECU's in a week.&nbsp; Fortunately, they were purchased at a steep discount on Ebay, but it still cost me a couple hundred bucks and there was no easy way to find the problem. I ended up dissembling the entire van again and sold her off for parts (I actually doubled the money I had put into it <img src="/images/boards/smilies/smile.gif" class="emoticon bbc_img">). I really liked that van, but the lack of overdrive was a killer on the freeway.

 

[Ziggy Moon]

I worked on a couple of the suggestions today.<br><br>@ <strong>wrcsixeight</strong> - disconnected the battery cables. Noticed that the all cables where looking generally crappy after removing the terminals, so I broke out the knife and stripped them back a little more - only to find more corrosion.<br><br>I did the best I could by cleaning/scraping/sanding off the corrosion and brought the cables to a nice copper shine and checked all grounds.<br><br>I then cleaned up the old terminals and put it all back together. <br><br>It's looking better than it did, but I think replacing the battery cables and terminals is warranted - but gonna give it some time to see if the stall issue is gone. <br><br>I also inspected and re-taped some of the seemingly mounds of wiring going all over the place - from top down to the trans. <img src="/images/boards/smilies/biggrin.gif" class="emoticon bbc_img"><br><br><br><br>@ <strong>Lynx</strong> - took off the <span id="post_message_1278023281">IAC valve and cleaned it up.... it was pretty nasty and mucked up - but it looked purdy and new when I put it back on. <br><br>Even if it is not the cause of my stall problems, thank you for directing me to clean it, it was definitely needing it.</span> <img src="/images/boards/smilies/thumb.gif" class="emoticon bbc_img"><br><br><br>Thanks to All for the Input on this Thread. <img src="/images/boards/smilies/smile.gif" class="emoticon bbc_img"><br><br>

 

[James AKA Lynx]

Great, You did clean up the inside as well?&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Mine was so bad that the plunger had broken off on the bottom and would not move.<br><br>James AKA Lynx