My Existential Journey

[Optimistic Paranoid]

One of the things I was planning to do on our journey was to do some cave photography and possibly publish a photo book. I did a lot of research, as you might expect, and mapped out all of the cave systems along our route. Unfortunately I think we're going to have to cut this aspect from our trip, or at least diminish it significantly for a few reasons.

1. It's expensive. Visiting all of those caves would cost us over $600 for the year with no guarantee that we'll make that money back off of prints.
2. A lot of the caves are commercial and I have a feeling that getting permission to photograph them, for commercial purposes, will be difficult and possibly expensive.
3. White Noise Syndrome. WNS is a fungal disease that is killing off bat populations in many parts of the country. In an effort to stave off the spread, a lot of caverns are putting harsh restrictions on what you can bring into a cave. Many will not allow you to bring anything into the cave that has been in a different cave because it could be carrying spores, so visiting a series of caves  early on in the trip might prevent me from visiting any other caves. There is a decontamination process, but I'm not very keen on thoroughly washing my camera with bleach.
4. Equipment restrictions. Most commercial caverns won't let you use a tripod, which is a big issue when shooting in low light. It would be likely that I'd get a lot of unusable images as a result.

There are a few noncommercial caverns on my list that I can still photograph for free and without restriction, so I might still be able to produce some good work. I'll cross my fingers.

Good news is we're saving $600

Matt, have you done any cave photography already, or is this something new you are anxious to try?

I ask because I'm kinda under the impression that GOOD cave photography requires a TON of lighting gear and hours of set-up time for each shot.

Regards
John

 

[Matt71]

I have not done any cave photography yet, but I'm planning some test runs before we hit the road. I'm interested to try it because you don't see it as much as your typical landscape photo.


I have lighting gear, not a TON, but I have it and am bringing it with me. But you don't always need a TON of lights. I was looking at a professional cave photographer's web site the other day and he shoots with just a single assistant. He's shot promotional shots for a bunch of commercial caves. He only charges $500 and takes 3 days to do the job, so he likely doesn't have the money to have TONs of anything. 

How much gear you need really depends how you want to light it and if you need people in the shot. If the shot has anything that's going to move in it, yes, you need tons of light because you can't do a long exposure. But, if you just want a picture of the cave formations you just need a long exposure and A light source to paint with. I took these photos at 3am and lit the whole thing with just a single flashlight and a $500 camera.

[img=400x499]https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd....021737_696e0e81877306604ca4e5d879e5d0c4[/img]

To the best of my knowledge, commercial caves are pretty well lit for both safety and ambiance, so as long as I don't need people in the pictures it's just a question of exposure time and the need for a tripod - both of which are unlikely on a public tour it turns out. Some caves do offer private tours specifically for photographers, but I haven't called to find out if they cost extra or not. I was also reading that sometimes national parks will accommodate photographers after hours, but you have to pay the ranger's overtime.

 

[rvwandering]

You do know that there is pretty much nothing there but a Wal-mart LOL.

Matt71 wrote:
Well, that's at the tail end of our trip and will be our second pass through Florida so I'm not expecting to be flush with cash. We'll be staying at one of the Thousand Trails resorts for just which has a shore power, a pool, and free wifi. It's only $3 a night so we need to take full advantage. We have family down in Palatka and Cape Coral that we might spend more time with, but we'll see.

 Sorry about the quote. I couldn't get it to work right. Anyway we have friends who stay in the TT park at Wauchula and it's a nice park. We usually stay across the street at the little county park. There isn't a lot to do around there but it's a good place to relax. If you're interested in unusual things Solomon's Castle is close by. And also Herrmanns' Royal Lipizzan Stallions Training Grounds

 

[akrvbob]

The Southern CA hasn't come out yet apparently. CA isn't as photography rich a state as you would think. It's fantastically scenic but not great for photography. The OR and WA coasts are much better and worth more time. To really shoot the Sierras means long hikes because it has so few roads. You can get a few really good shots in Lake Tahoe but it isn't as good as it seems. The Redwoods are overdone.

I think there are only two can't-miss spots: Yosemite and Highway 395 on the east side of the Sierras. For both you want to be there spring or fall. Summer can be a nightmare.
Bob

 

[Matt71]

I put together a new floor plan with the bed running across the back of the van and using more drawers and cabinet spaces. I was even able to fit in my professional photo printer. Will have to see how that goes.

I'm not completely committed to the water tank and sink. I still have to get cold storage in there somehow - possibly a cooler where I currently have the water tank and replace the sink with a 5 gallon water cooler.

Also not sure about the position of the microwave. I'm not sure I can make it very stable that high.

 

[akrvbob]

That's looking very good! Much better use of your space. Couple points:

1) You'll have to get a swing-away hitch-haul. Those things are great!! You'll love it, they swallow a huge amount of stuff. But, I would not want the LOO back there! Of course you'll be in RV parks a lot so it can be back there then.
2) You aren't going to have a pass-through from the front? I'm assuming you're building a wall and putting the AC there?
3) I don't see seats for two. The bed will work for one, will you swivel the passenger seat? Comfortable seating is critical.
4) Don't count on running the AC from solar. You may want to carry a Honda 2000 for it and backup for long periods of clouds.
5) Where is your inverter? A 2000 watt PSW is pretty big. You want it pretty close to your batteries since it uses 2/0 (two-ought) cables. If it's further away you'll need 4/0.
6) I have my golf cart batteries behind the seats and in front of the divider wall. They fit their just fine.
7) I'd buy a van with the two barn doors on the side, and use the space in front of the door furthest back. You're going to need all you can get!

You've used your space extremely well! But, to be honest, I think you aren't going to have enough room.
Bob

 

[Matt71]

Thanks Bob

1) The swing-Away hitches are SO expensive. Once I have everything built and know where everything is going to be store I'll know how often I'll need to access the back doors. If I can make enough money on the road we will likely buy a small trailer instead.

2) I was planning to have a pass-though with the AC above the door. This will depend highly on what kind of hightop we end up with. The turtle tops can be pretty high. I've also seen people mount their AC in the back window, but that's a lot of work and looks kind of weird. Gonna tag this as "in progress".

3) We have a good size tent that we plan to set up outside for lounging. We're also cool with sharing the bed. We have some nice bean bags to keep on the bed when not sleeping, so we can sit up in bed. Unless it's raining, we don't plan on spending a lot go tim actually in the van. Most of the RV parks we are staying at have common areas where I intend to do a lot of my computer work.

4) I wasn't planning on using the AC with the solar. Shore power only

5) The plan is to put all of the electrical in that from 24" x 27" x 17"H compartment. Do you think that won't be enough room? The inverter is 4" x 9.5" x 11". The Power Supply is 7" x 10" x 3" and I may not need it.

6) I originally put the batteries behind the drivers seat, but I wanted to balance the weight of the water tank. If we decide we don't need the water storage I'll probably move them.

7) Barn doors is my ideal choice for that very reason.

You may be right about the room, but I'd rather be cramped than live in a vehicle I feel is too big for me. I'd rather stick with a van and add a trailer later if the space becomes too big of an issue.

 

[akrvbob]

We took a hitch haul to Alaska with us and getting in the back doors is very difficult so we found ourselves mostly coming in from the front but that will be impossible for you with the water storage and batteries in the way. I think that's going to be a nightmare.

If you're mainly going to be at RV parks, why do you want 26 gallons of water? I'd think 2, 7-gallon jugs would be plenty and be easier to balance and get around. That's one place I would 100% be sure to save space and weight!!! The tall jugs fit on the hitch haul very well and give you more precious room inside. I found it easy to tilt over and pour them without having to lit them.

Heat kills inverters, that why they all have fans. If you put it in a box, it will just build up more heat and die sooner.

For weight and balance you want the batteries as far forward as possible. Nearly all the weight you add goes to the back axle possibly overloading it and lifting your front end making it unstable. I would be sure and put a pair behind each seat.

Because you are going to be gone for a year, you will need an entire range of hot and cold weather clothing and bedding and rain gear-snow gear. That's extremely bulky and is going to take up a huge amount of room, but you can't go without it. You can easily run into snow in June in the Sierras, Rockies or Cascades. Where is it all going to go?

Where is the tent going to go? And outdoor tables and chairs?

I've done what you want to do so I know it can be done. But I also know how hard it is and you want to carry a whole lot more camera and office gear than I did and I just don't see how that's going to work.

 

[SoulRaven]

If you already own a SUV or truck that can haul 2000 pounds you should think about converting a 6’ wide single axle cargo trailer.

If you are going to spend from 7 to 14 days at one location do you really want to move the whole sideshow every time you want to go the Wal-Mart?

 

[VJG1977]

Have you considered a utility trailer.  Two of the options I have planed for include a 6 x 8 utility trailer and several o[font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]utdoor storage boxes.  The trailer I have cost $600, weighs 750 pounds and can carry 1500 pounds.  You could carry extra food, water, clothing, tent, camping gear, generator and fuel.  It could free up a lot of room in the van.[/font]

 

[Matt71]

I'll probably do away with the water in leu of more storage, but my thinking was that it would give us plenty of water for doing dishes.
Good to know about the inverter

As far as snow goes, we're doing our best to avoid it. Plus we're from Michigan, I wear shorts until the temp drops below 50. We'll bring some cold weather clothes, but we really don't have a lot of clothes to begin with. The 4 drawer unit is probably more than well need. Bulky stuff like coats and sweaters we'll keep in space bags when not needed so they take up as little space as possible.

Just added the chairs. We have a Tommy Bahama beach chair that we'll bungie to the bulkhead behind the passengers seat and we have folding camping chair which will fit in the hitch tote. Don't recall the size of our cabin tent, but I'm almost certain that it will fit in the passenger side wheel well space.

I do appreciate all of you advice Bob - keep it coming. I've become pretty adept at fitting lots of stuff into a small amount of space when I have to. If we can't get everything to fit, we may have to wait until we can get a small trailer. If we wait another year we'll have considerably more money to work with, but that mens putting off for 2 years and who know what will happen in that time.

 

[akrvbob]

I'm very impressed with your latest lay-out, it's an impressive use of space. I do think you can do it, but you can only have the bare essentials and nothing else, especially with your need for so much photo gear.

I'm looking forward to seeing the actual build, that will be very impressive to see it come together!!
Bob

 

[jimindenver]

Wow. I've thought of taken all the gear on the road with our trailer, never considered the big printer though. As it is I'd lose at least one bunk space to the gear and a light tent and that's lot of storage. I can edit with a netbook but it takes forever. For us even with a 25 foot trailer and tow vehicle, having enough stuff to be on the road for a year would be challenging.

On the caves. What kind of ISO/ image stabilization can you work with? I don't sell much of my work so I don't know if you could get the kind of shot you want hand held but I've shot lava tubes that way. You could also use inexpensive slaves here and there but I'm sure it would take test shots to get what you want.

In our travels I have seen many commercial places that don't allow "big camera" photography. I put it that way because i have been followed around to make sure I don't use my camera while others happily click away with their cell phones and point and shoots. Their concept is that I could take nice pictures and try to sell them and they were not worried about the little cameras. The worse place for it was Europe but even in Mexico it has been a struggle from time to time. A few places they wanted me to pay a professional photography fee just because I have pro level gear. (or in their terms, big lenses)

The plans look ****, keep it up.

 

[Matt71]

Jim,
I wasn't going to take the big printer initially, but my small printer uses 4 times the power. It will allow me to make professional prints on the road. If it turns out to not be worth the space, we'll put it into storage when we are back home in August.

My camera shoots pretty well up to 1600 ISO, but I don't like going over 800. Stabilization is an issue because I don't have very steady hands. Not being able to use a tripod is a big issue and is one of the primary reasons I'm dumping the idea.

Yeah, I've experiences gear discrimination too. Some places ban any camera that has a removable lens.

Did you know that it cost at least $1000 to take a commercial picture of the Golden Gate Bridge? And they limit when you can take it to a few during the day. I discover that when I was researching San Fransisco. I guess the people who own the bridge also own all of the prime photo spots on either side as well, so there's no way around it unless you shoot from a boat or miles away.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

My camera shoots pretty well up to 1600 ISO, but I don't like going over 800. Stabilization is an issue because I don't have very steady hands. Not being able to use a tripod is a big issue and is one of the primary reasons I'm dumping the idea.

Have you ever tried working with a monopod?  Some places that won't permit tripods don't object to a monopod.

Regards
John

 

[akrvbob]

Full-Frame DSLRs have dropped like a rock in price. My Canon 6D is Full Frame and it has less noise at 6400 than most cropped cameras have at 800. 3200 is about the same as 400 on crop camera. I never hesitate to shoot at 6400 if I have to and I don't see any noise.

The Body is $2000 but you may have to upgrade lenses as well. Nikon has just as good a deals in full-frame, I just don't know what they are. Sony does too, but they have image stabilization in the body so it works with all your lenses. I had a Sony DSLR and wasn't a fan though. I replaced it with my Canon.
Bob

 

[Matt71]

I have a monopod, but that really doesn't help much if you need a long exposure. I hardly ever use it.

I have a Full-Frame DSLR. Canon 5dMarkII

 

[akrvbob]

That's a great camera. Noise should be a non-issue below 6400. What little noise there is can be dealt with by software. Although if it's older it may not be as good as the newer cameras like the Mark III or my 6D. Either way, it's dramatically better than a crop-camera.

I agree about the monopod, I either hand-hold or for really long exposures put it on a tripod. Although in a cave I'd be willing to try. Using the right technique a monopod can be really helpful.
Bob