My current situation

[citytravelfotos]

For anyone who is interested in what happened to the van I was looking at (the green van) last month, I brought it in to be tested by the mechanics shop hoping to find enough things for me to have walked away from the deal, but the mechanic said that it was ok (except the air compressor leaking, which had a warranty on it.) &nbsp; After two days, talking a lot with the owner of the shop, and being convinced by a friend of mine that it's a good deal, I decided to buy it (at $4200.)<br><br>However, after buying it, I found out that the wear on the tires suggested underinflation (and the tires were underinflated themselves very significantly) so I lost my confidence in the tires and had to have them replaced (I paid $800, thinking that that's the last fix I'd have to do.) &nbsp;I also paid $150 for a detailing job that didn't go as smoothly as I was hoping for, but the van still looks a lot better than before.<br><br>However, after driving to L.A. about a week ago and feeling it hard to control the van on the freeway after 70 mph, I had the van checked by an alignment place, they claimed that the ball joints are worn out and that there is significant play (which I witnessed) in the movement of the ball joints and that I'd have to have them replaced. &nbsp;I was hoping that they were trying to scam me, but I consulted three other mechanics shops (including one dealer) which confirmed it (including that its dangerous to drive it like that) and had it seen by a second shop, so I decided to have it fixed (with a 3 year / 36000 mile warranty on the job) for about $850.<br><br>What pisses me off is that I trusted that mechanic and his shop to do a thorough vehicle inspection, and because I trusted him I have to now pay $850 to $1650 (depending on whether the tire thing should have been inspected as well) and I've lost confidence in the condition of the van. &nbsp;I wouldn't have bought the van if these things were detected beforehand, as thus the van would have been out of my price range (heck, I was only thinking of buying a van for around $3000 and was willing to pay $1500 more for a van that would be good enough to go around the country but not $6000! &nbsp;I have my own trustworthy vehicle, a 2007 Honda CRV.) &nbsp;I feel screwed and I trusted a shop that got a lot of good ratings and was even rated Tucson's best mechanic of 2012 by a local magazine, and the owner seemed to be very honest, knowledgeable, and down to earth. &nbsp;I guess even if you do your due diligence, you still might be screwed, I guess just a fact about life.

 

[sparky1]

GO TO HIM___SHOW the manditory repairs thet you had to experiance---maybe file a grievance thru BBB against him-.<BR>(my 2 cents)

 

[highdesertranger]

having worked in the auto repair business for years i say this, i don't care whose rating says what most shops are rip offs.&nbsp; if they were not they would be out of business, &nbsp;the over head to run a shop in most places is unbelievable.&nbsp; profits must be maximized.&nbsp; regs and taxes will kill you.&nbsp; you must suck every nickel out of everybody you can.&nbsp; having said that, &nbsp;you could not tell the tires were shot?&nbsp; you didn't test drive at highway speed to see how it handled?&nbsp; when i check a vehicle i drive first to find obvious area to&nbsp;look into.&nbsp; i tell the vehicle owner that i am going to drive the car hard, fast acceleration,&nbsp;panic stops, hard circles, etc.&nbsp; if the owner balks that's a red flag and usually a deal killer. &nbsp;yes the shop should have caught this, &nbsp;but i think you should have noticed at least the tires.&nbsp; boy i am so glad i am out of that business. &nbsp;highdesertranger

 

[Ballenxj]

highdesertranger, I do the same thing. In fact I will look the sales person straight in the eye with a very serious look on my face and say "you had better buckle up." <img src="/images/boards/smilies/wink.gif" class="emoticon bbc_img"> <br>@ citytravelfotos, yes, the shop should have noticed the wear on the tires, and that should have lead him to check the front end and ball joints. I'm not defending him but a mechanic shop will usually inspect the power train, but more often than not they don't inspect the front end as that is not their forte'. <br>I personally wouldn't go after the shop that did the inspection as much as I would go back to the seller and explain what happened. I would nicely ask for a partial refund, and if that is out of the question, you may have to write it off as a bad experience. <br>IMO, you should have taken the van straight to the front end shop as soon as you saw those tires in that condition. I'm sorry to hear this happened, but it's buyer beware out there. <img src="/images/boards/smilies/frown.gif" class="emoticon bbc_img"><br>-Bruce

 

[idn88]

Both items should have easily been found if they are truly worn out. &nbsp;Both are common wear items, and there not too hard to figure out if the inspector actually did their job.<br><br>Also, any used vehicle is going to have fleas. &nbsp;If they were perfect, why would anyone sell them?&nbsp;<br><br>Having said that, it wouldn't be beyond the new shop to try to get you to replace something you don't need, or maybe are in fact worn, but still within acceptable specs. &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;

 

[Ballenxj]

@ idn88, yes, a shop will a lot of times try to sell you something you don't need as they see dollar signs as soon as you walk in the door.<br> I once had a shop try to sell me a transmission rebuild saying it was shot. I went and got a second opinion elsewhere and a new set of U-joints later the problem was gone. <br>You have to be careful. A front end shop would love to sell you a rebuilt front end, and a radiator shop would like to sell you a radiator. Some are honest, and some are not. <br>-Bruce

 

[citytravelfotos]

About the highway speed test thing, Tucson only has one freeway, and where I met the guy to view the vehicle and do the test drive, was many miles away from the freeway, plus the speed limit is 65 mph, and me usually only going up to 5 mph over the speed limit, I wouldn't have seen it anyway. &nbsp;I trusted the mechanic to check the suspension. &nbsp;I detected the thing about the tires (that they were already worn), and thats why I was able to knock it down, but I underestimated how much the tires would cost and I thought I didn't have to do them immediately, I didn't know it was due to underinflated tires and I didn't know that tires that were previously underinflated for a lengthy time are unsafe to drive with. &nbsp;How the hell could I know all the little things that only car people know about? &nbsp;That's why I have a mechanic to inspect it. &nbsp;<br><br>Well, I guess if no mechanic is trustworthy, then one prerequisite to buying a van or any used vehicle should be to become a mechanic, or at least to have a friend that is a mechanic.

 

[citytravelfotos]

Both items should have easily been found if they are truly worn out. &nbsp;Both are common wear items, and there not too hard to figure out if the inspector actually did their job.<br><br>Also, any used vehicle is going to have fleas. &nbsp;If they were perfect, why would anyone sell them?&nbsp;<br><br>Having said that, it wouldn't be beyond the new shop to try to get you to replace something you don't need, or maybe are in fact worn, but still within acceptable specs. &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;

<br><br>The concensus after talking to 4 mechanics and looking on the internet was that there should not be any play on the ball joints. &nbsp;So am I to risk it and think that they are BSing me when the consequences would be a suspension collapse and possible accident? &nbsp;

 

[wrcsixeight]

Worn ball joints will destroy your new tires. <br><br>&nbsp;I would have had the suspension work done before getting new 800$ worth of tires.<br><br>Be glad your Van does not use the Kingpins instead of ball joints, many mechanics refuse that job.<br><br>Any slop in ball joints or tie rods ends or Idler arms, is bad for the tires, performance, and ultimately safety.<br><br>If you witnessed slop, the work was warranted, and depending on what all was replaced, 850$ is not a rip off. &nbsp;I rebuilt my whole front suspension myself and the parts &nbsp;alone with new springs was closer to 700$, and I spent days doing it, but was repainting things and learning while I worked.

 

[offroad]

what you paid is what everyone pays. every repair you should expect $500 or more. that is the only way shops can stay in business. &nbsp;<br><br>unfortunately you need to know just as much as a mechanic, in order to pick a mechanic, or to even pick an inspector.&nbsp;

 

[owl]

&nbsp;&nbsp; Making a blanket statement that every auto repair shop is out to rip you off is ridiculous and irresponsible. Look at the written report the shop doing the inspection gave you and see what all they checked for. If you asked them to check compression and transmission function then that's probably all they did. Did you ask them to road test the van or just do a visual?<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; You have learned a valuable lesson, one worth every penny. Don't give up on the van yet. It sounds to me like you may be finished with the problems for awhile. Just a note, when you are asking a shop for an opinion about a specific part of a vehicle don't say what others have told you. Let them do the inspection and get back to you with untainted information. Don't let this experience set you back. Continue on with your dream. Good luck !

 

[idn88]

<span style="line-height: 20px;">The concensus after talking to 4 mechanics and looking on the internet was that there should not be any play on the ball joints. &nbsp;So am I to risk it and think that they are BSing me when the consequences would be a suspension collapse and possible accident? &nbsp;</span>

<br><br>I checked my shop manual, and maximum allowable axial play for ball joints in the vehicle I am currently driving is 0.050. &nbsp;Thats how you tell if they are BSing you. &nbsp;Did they put a dial gauge on it. &nbsp;Whats the spec on yours, and how much play was there?<br><br>To calm your nerves - A vehicle that age, if not replaced recently, more than likely required new ball joints, and new tires are typically a good investment as well if anything is&nbsp;questionable&nbsp; &nbsp;However if you want to not feel like your being ripped off in the future the best thing you can do is learn more about what your getting done. &nbsp;

 

[Ballenxj]

citytravelfotos, can you tell us more about the actual van you bought? Make, year, model, and mileage? <br>I don't recall if you had posted that here before, and if you had, I don't remember it. <br>@ idn88, it seems you worked as a mechanic before? I read you reply and at first thought you didn't know how to spell axle. I then had some coffee and reread it and realized you really "do" know what you're talking about. (axial play) <img src="/images/boards/smilies/wink.gif" class="emoticon bbc_img"> <br>-Bruce

 

[ZOFCHAK]

<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; I'm glad to hear that you have found a van!&nbsp; Now learn how to fix it yourself! <img src="/images/boards/smilies/biggrin.gif" class="emoticon bbc_img"><br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp; I'm just joking of course (Well not really), but I can't imagine spending $850 to have ball joints replaced when I can buy them for around $100. In repairing a vehicle on a budget you need to find a good balance between necessary repairs and those that can wait. Items that pose an immediate danger should obviously be taken care of, and of course don't postpone repairs that will lead to larger costs in the future. <br><br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp; That being said, while I did not see the the damage to the tires in person I will tell you that 10 ply E load rated tires (Most likely what you had) can last a very long time even if they have been misused.&nbsp; Of course safety is paramount, but these tires are rated to carry a fully loaded vehicle at close to 4000lbs per tire. Even loaded with every RV essential most vans used for traveling are not going to weight in at half of that. <br>&nbsp;&nbsp; As for the ball joints a bit of play is not really a safety factor, but significant <br>&nbsp;wear is (You don't want to lose your steering or a wheel at high speeds <img src="/images/boards/smilies/eek.gif" class="emoticon bbc_img">).&nbsp; Next time instead of asking if they needed repairs ask the mechanic if they are safe to drive with them like that.&nbsp; If you can make them last another 5k miles, then that's 5k miles longer that the new ones will last. <br><br><br>&nbsp; I think it's important to realize that there is a big difference between an older heavy duty vehicle and a newer car.&nbsp;&nbsp; If you are paying someone to repair every mechanical imperfection on a $4000 van it's going to end up costing you a fortune!&nbsp;&nbsp; I'm not saying don't have it repaired, just to pick your battles(Repairs) wisely! <img src="/images/boards/smilies/thumb.gif" class="emoticon bbc_img"><br>&nbsp; <br><br>

 

[offroad]

love the discussion. how is the OP supposed to know to ask these questions. &nbsp;they dont. &nbsp;and then to see all the advise that you should ask this or you should ask that. &nbsp;<br><br>get yourself a book like CAR CARE FOR DUMMIES. &nbsp;or CAR REPAIRS FOR DUMMIES. these usually give you a great quick education on the things that should be checked. &nbsp;Work well for me. &nbsp;<br><br>COOLENT SYSTEM<br>OIL SYSTEM<br>STEERING SYSTEM<br>SUSPENSION SYSTEM<br>BRAKE SYSTEM<br>TIRES AND WHEELS<br>ELECTRICAL SYSTEM<br>HVAC SYSTEM<br><br>then get a chiltons manual for your vehicle to have as reference. &nbsp;expect $100 an hour for service, plus parts.&nbsp;<br><br>

 

[caseyc]

Don't feel so bad.&nbsp; A similar thing happened to me.&nbsp; I paid $3,000 for a used 1995 Ford E150 conversion van from a reputable auto dealer, and the van&nbsp;looked in good shape from outward appearance.&nbsp; I thought this was a really good price&nbsp;compared to&nbsp;other conversion vans I had seen that cost more and were in worse condition.&nbsp;&nbsp;A half year later, I had to replace the radiator because it sprang a leak and the temp gauge was reading off the scale.&nbsp; That one item alone cost over $1500.&nbsp; I then had to replace all the tires and ball bearings on the tires for another $1500.&nbsp; I've also paid another several hundred dollars here and there for other various repairs.&nbsp; My van is now quite reliable, I'm pretty sure,&nbsp;after paying for so many repairs. The moral of the story?&nbsp;&nbsp; If I had this hindsight back then, I would not have purchased my particular van.&nbsp; I would have paid extra (say $6,000+)&nbsp;for a later model van that was in better shape.&nbsp; Happens to the best of us.&nbsp; <br><br>By the way, before I purchased my full size Ford conversion van, I had looked into the Westfalia Vanagons and the Eurovan models.&nbsp; After doing much research, I was dismayed to find out that I would have to pay anywhere between $25,000 to $35,000 and up for a completely rebuilt Westfalia camper van.&nbsp; This is because these vans are so old that most of its innards have to be replace with new parts in order for the vehicle to be considered roadworthy and reliable.&nbsp; I was not willing to pay that much for a 25+ year old vehicle, even despite its innards being replaced or rebuilt.&nbsp; So in my mind, I saved money by buying a Ford conversion van for only a few thousand dollars as opposed to tens of thousands for a Westfalia Vanagon.&nbsp; I don't know if there's any real logic to this, but that was my thought process at the time.<br><br>Cheers and good luck to you!&nbsp; I feel your pain too!<br><br>Casey

 

[idn88]

<span style="line-height: 20px;">If I had this hindsight back then, I would not have purchased my particular van.&nbsp; I would have paid extra (say $6,000+)&nbsp;for a later model van that was in better shape.&nbsp; Happens to the best of us.&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>

<br><br>You probably still did well.<br><br>I have a 2008, 4WD Nissan SUV with 100,000 miles - I have owned since brand new.<br><br>There is absolutely nothing wrong with it right now, I have babied it and done every&nbsp;recommended&nbsp;maintenance on schedule. &nbsp;However I know this particular vehicle model well and its likely problems, and know it will likely need several thousand dollars in repairs in the next 50,000 miles - radiator, rad hoses, front hub bearings, spark plugs, and likely a timing chain. &nbsp;Plus tires again, and breaks - there wear items at x miles. I will probably do most myself, but I may pay the dealer for some - I have a great relationship with them, they do great work, and I am getting older and weaker.... &nbsp;<br><br>My point is that every vehicle needs work. &nbsp;Its still exponentially cheaper than a new one.

 

[caseyc]

Here's a story that might make some of us feel slightly better. A friend I've known for years had bought a brand new convertible Porsche Boxster for over $50k around 10 years ago.&nbsp; A year ago,&nbsp;a trusted mechanic told my friend this particular Porsche model has a reputation for the engine to blow up and/or disintegrate. Sure enough, less than a year later, the engine completely failed, and it would have cost many thousands for a new or rebuilt engine. My friend ended up selling the Porsche for $2,000 because it was un-drivable.&nbsp; This happened even though he had spent thousands and thousands on various repairs and maintenance each year. Now my friend doesn't even own a car anymore,&nbsp;and he can't justify buying another vehicle as he's been laid off for some time now.&nbsp; Instead, he now&nbsp;rides the local city buses and sometimes rent Zip Cars.&nbsp; The funny thing is,&nbsp;my friend used to make fun of my convertible&nbsp;BMW because he always thought his Porsche was superior.&nbsp; I get to have the last laugh now.&nbsp; &nbsp; Not really, just saying!&nbsp;

 

[Seraphim]

The tire wear was probably not from under inflation, but from the worn ball joints. I wonder if the previous owner did not intentionally under inflate the tires to conceal the problem with ball joints?

 

[Seraphim]

I would have expected a professional tire store, if that's where you bought the tires, to have caught that.