Motorcycle to use as a "toad" with van

[user 423]

The 2WD would pretty fun to play with.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Sidecar tricks, flying the chair, snow donuts, hauling a lawnmower in the sidecaar or a load of 4 bags of 80# sackrete, 6 cinderblocks and a dozen 10 foot long 2x4s...all easily doable on a Ural. Practical AND fun.

 

[bonvanroulez]

Stock gearing or did you go down a tooth at the front?

I went down a tooth from 15 to 14 but also running an oversize rear tire. The change in final drive vs the increased tire size is just about even.

 

[GoingMobile]

Ural motorcycles are much improved over the last 10 years. Mine never stranded me in 5 years of riding it...and...virtually 100% reliable other than the occasional flat tire.

The most fun I've had on ANY motorcycle, ever! was when I had my Ural Patrol, 2WD sidecar motorcycle.

And 200% MORE fun when the roads were snowy and icy...what a hoot...I engaged that sidecar wheel and scooted past 4wd jeeps and pickups and hummers that were barely able to operate in deep snow and slippery ice. I have video of this!

So mechanically simple you almost never need a dealership to fix anything. Simple hand tools and some bailing wire and duct tape...you can fix just about anything.

BUT.

Right now is the wrong time to be riding a Russian bike.

So my Ural Solo sT is parked until the crap in Europe is over with.

I had a 1969 BMW r60/2. I've heard the Urals are modeled on the 1940s era BMWs. The R60/2 I had was originally designed in the mid 50s, so not too much changed. I did really appreciate the simplicity, things would get out of whack occasionally, but it usually took less than 10 minutes to get it back in order. It was perfect for 2 lane highways such as Highway 1 along the California coast which I rode several times on it. It was less adept on freeways with drum brakes and a 4 speed transmission. A friend has a Ural with the sidecar and he seems to really like it but avoids freeways. After learning about working on cars with a VW Beetle the BMW motor seemed very familiar from the start.

 

[bonvanroulez]

A friend had a Chang Jiang which is a chinese copy of a russian copy of a BMW.
"The CJ750 motorcycle is based on the original 1956 Soviet IMZ M-72 which itself was derived from the earlier German 1938 BMW R71"

 

[tx2sturgis]

Don't want to derail the thread, since the OP is looking for a suitable 2 wheel bike as ground transportation for the van. But here is my 2013 Forest Green Ural Patrol 2WD. And my 2013 Deep Red Ural Solo sT Solo.

Both were a lot of fun. Sold the sidecar rig a few years back...I sure wish I still had it but I needed the money when I retired early. Oh well.

 

[GoingMobile]

While I am still planning on getting a smaller dual sport to carry with my van, I'm enjoying seeing and talking about these other bikes, particularly these ones related to BMWs. My cousin Dan used to cross the country, thousands of miles each summer on a 1957 BMW R50. Where my teaching job is in Mississippi there is a guy who goes by "Vech" who is the North American expert on vintage BMW motorcycles. He has a collection of over 70 of them and a shop where he works on restorations. He owns 2 or 3 of the German WW2 BMWs with machine guns mounted on the sidecar.

Benchmark Works is Vech's company. His website is: http://benchmarkworks.com/
If you scroll down there is an article on his restoration of a 1942 R75. "Vech's R75 Finished"
If you click on "Our Museum" off to the left, you can see some of the bikes he has restored. From a 1925 R32 up to a 1975 R90S with everything in between. I heard he recently sold his vintage parts inventory to Max BMW up in the northeast. I'm not sure if any of the bikes were involved, I think it was just the parts. Vech and his shop are worth paying a visit to if you're ever in the area of Sturgis Mississippi. There is also the Barber motorcycle museum a couple of hours east in Birmingham, AL. Here's a shot of his shop, in an old textile factory building he bought.

 

[user 423]

^If I ever get to tour the Natchez Trace Parkway, I'll be sure to stop there. It would just be a short detour to Sturgis.

 

[GoingMobile]

^If I ever get to tour the Natchez Trace Parkway, I'll be sure to stop there. It would just be a short detour to Sturgis.

It travels very close to Sturgis as I remember. I used to catch it at Mathiston and HWY 12 to ride north to Nashville. Had a friend who lived near where it came out into Nashville I'd visit. She had a Moto Guzzi. Its a pleasant ride, although the 50mph speed limit was difficult for me to adhere to. Guess I'm too used to the wide open roads of the west. You need to be careful of deer in the road as it gets to be later in the day/evening. Beautiful scenery, like going back in time.

 

[Malamute]

My backup transportation will be an '84 H-D Low Rider with a sidecar. ive got it up and going, but fine tuning the mounts to bring the car in tighter to the bike, and hopefully be able to fit it in a 6-wide cargo trailer camper. I may have to go to a 6 1/2 ft wide, but still hoping for the 6 wide once the mounts are finalized.

The carrying space in the sidecar is pretty good, as well as the fact that the bike can still do anything a normal bike can with saddlebags and other things you can tie on.

I have a winch mount for it but no winch yet. Its a work in progress in several regards.

 

[user 423]

^All that luggage space would be nice,that's for sure. Plus a more comfortable ride for a friend.

 

[Malamute]

^All that luggage space would be nice,that's for sure. Plus a more comfortable ride for a friend.

...and a dog.

 

[tx2sturgis]

My backup transportation will be an '84 H-D Low Rider with a sidecar. ive got it up and going, but fine tuning the mounts to bring the car in tighter to the bike, and hopefully be able to fit it in a 6-wide cargo trailer camper. I may have to go to a 6 1/2 ft wide, but still hoping for the 6 wide once the mounts are finalized.


I have a winch mount for it but no winch yet. Its a work in progress in several regards.

Good looking scoot ya got there...aand that looks like a Ural tub....but...

I can tell you from experience that a 6 foot wide cargo trailer is NOT wide enough for a full sized sidecar bike...and wont ever be. You need 7 foot wide minimum. The problem is the ramp door opening is only about 5.5 feet wide and the cables that attach to the ramp door are narrower than that...about 5 feet. Measure from the tip of your left handlebar to the outside dimension of the sidecar wheel or hub or fender. You will see what I'm talking about.

Another issue is the aiming of the bike as it crawls up the ramp door. They tend to fall off a bit as the rear tire slips as you try to add throttle while swinging the handlebars back and forth so that they will clear the cables and not alter your aim into the rear barely wide-enough opening.

And the trailer MUST be hooked up to a tow vehicle or the entire back end of the trailer will lever downward, and or move, as all of this is going on.

Now, you might be able to winch it in...but its a slow process getting between the door lifting cables and the frame. Then you have to be able to maneuver yourself inside the trailer to strap it all down to the D-rings....if the bike is touching the trailer walls it can be a hard thing to do...and you will HATE loading it and unloading it.

Seriously. Get a bigger trailer.

 

[Malamute]

Good looking scoot ya got there...aand that looks like a Ural tub....but...

I can tell you from experience that a 6 foot wide cargo trailer is NOT wide enough for a full sized sidecar bike...and wont ever be. You need 7 foot wide minimum. The problem is the ramp door opening is only about 5.5 feet wide and the cables that attach to the ramp door are narrower than that...about 5 feet. Measure from the tip of your left handlebar to the outside dimension of the sidecar wheel or hub or fender. You will see what I'm talking about.

Another issue is the aiming of the bike as it crawls up the ramp door. They tend to fall off a bit as the rear tire slips as you try to add throttle while swinging the handlebars back and forth so that they will clear the cables and not alter your aim into the rear barely wide-enough opening.

And the trailer MUST be hooked up to a tow vehicle or the entire back end of the trailer will lever downward, and or move, as all of this is going on.

Now, you might be able to winch it in...but its a slow process getting between the door lifting cables and the frame. Then you have to be able to maneuver yourself inside the trailer to strap it all down to the D-rings....if the bike is touching the trailer walls it can be a hard thing to do...and you will HATE loading it and unloading it.

Seriously. Get a bigger trailer.

All good info, thanks.

This came up a year or two ago, I didnt have it together yet, so had no real idea where i was going to end up at for width yet. Off the top of my head, I think Im at around 67 1/2", I think I may be able to trim about 3" or so from that when i get the mounts modified.

Did you ever try a rail or guide strips attached to the ramp door to guide the rig into the door?

It will have an RV door on the side, as regards securing the rig and using the trailer while the bike is loaded.

Can the cables be relaxed or stopped and detached once the ramp door is down? Ive thought of trying a barn door trailer if the cables become too problematic but the door opening would work. This is all a slow motion project Im tinkering with while taking care of an elderly parent. Its evolving over time.

Ill have to see where a 6 1/2 wide ends up for clearance. Part of what Im hoping (theres that word, "hope") is I will be able to pull it with a 4runner so my general mileage isnt so bad, if i cant, then Ill probably have to move to a Tahoe, which will add a large measure of overall expense to the idea. This whole thing will be a big part of my winter migration plan, I really want to be able to have the bike/sidecar in Az for the winter and not get killed on fuel mileage for the tow vehicle in average non-towing driving. No free lunch, but perhaps a balance point for all the wants/needs.

The car is a DMC, a commercial re-make of a Ural car, it has a fiberglass body and some supposed improvements in a couple regards, and i think is probably a bit lighter, I think the entire car is under 200 lbs, with curb weight spec on the bike being 612-ish lbs

 

[tx2sturgis]

This project which is similar to yours, took place several years ago...I just happened to think I needed to take a few pics...and luckily the pics are still on the google machine!

Keep in mind I'm not trying to tell you how all this works...just providing a little bit of advise...do with it as you wish...but if it were me, I'd use an open utility trailer with a ramp...which worked well for me. Not much 'hit' on fuel mileage either. Oh you will know its back there, but it's not a big barn door you are trying to drag against a head wind.

Here are a few pics of mine tied down in the enclosed trailer, nearly takes up all of the space...not much room ahead of the bike....and your HD is much longer than the Ural. The empty 6x12 looks huge when you step inside...but trust me...its like squeezing a brick into a sock.

 

[tx2sturgis]

BTW....you asked about a guide or some way to keep the bike straight.

I had zero luck with the first couple of attempts riding it up the wooden ramp, because the rear tire slips under power. So, I engaged 2WD and it was much easier to control...it kept going forward with no slipping. But I STILL had to wiggle the bars back and forth to get them past the cables. And the right side fender and the left handgrip made hard contact against the door frame as you can see in the pictures.

On a single rear pusher like yours, you are going to need to either apply a non slip tread surface to the wooden ramp, or you will need someone else (or a winch) to help you get it inside the trailer. And you cant simply back up and haul *** up the ramp. It WON'T work that way.

And NO there's no way to unhook the cables when the ramp is deployed. They have about a HUNDRED (or more) pounds of tension...as soon as you pull a pin the cable will forcefully retract as the spring unwinds and you will have to check to see if you have any of your fingers left!

You could modify the ramp cables...I did exactly that. But I had tools to hold the torsion springs semi-relaxed, and I moved the cable anchors much closer to the top of the ramp (when viewed as the ramp is deployed)...but this was only done to provide extra space on the ramp when it's being used as a 'deck'.

So...if you make progress keep us informed...I'd like to see what works for you!

BTW...here is my old 2009 E-250 Ford van pulling my Ural Patrol on my 5x8 utility trailer...it just barely fits!...but it worked surprisingly well.

 

[Malamute]

Im at 8'7" end to end. A 14' trailer should give a little room for the basics in the front with an electrically lowering bed over the rear section.

A friend had a custom built rig by Elk Mountain, I think his was 6x12. Its the basis of my plan, it was well laid out for handling a quad in the back and still have the basics in the front, small shower/chem toilet, small kitchen area with sink, inside/outside chuck/kitchen. If I built a similar one around the existing bike/sidecar rig I think I could achieve most of what he had.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Yep. Just keep in mind that his quad does not have a handlebar and mirror hanging out a foot or so out to the left! Makes a big difference. Just do all your homework before you go buy a trailer that is too small for the job. For example: You cant put the bike all the way back. It needs to be centered over the trailer axle (more or less) for proper weight distribution. You will end up with a foot or two of 'wasted' space behind the bike, and not as much extra room up front as your measurements might indicate.

Good luck.

 

[bullfrog]

One of my neighbors at Caballo Loco loves and trains horses. Every year he buys a couple upon arriving and sells them just before he leaves so he doesn't have to haul them and deal with the extra hassles at the border. He actually makes money but he is a good trainer and salesman. Maybe it would be less expensive to buy a bike in Arizona every winter and sell it before you leave?

 

[Malamute]

Yep. Just keep in mind that his quad does not have a handlebar and mirror hanging out a foot or so out to the left! Makes a big difference. Just do all your homework before you go buy a trailer that is too small for the job. For example: You cant put the bike all the way back. It needs to be centered over the trailer axle (more or less) for proper weight distribution. You will end up with a foot or two of 'wasted' space behind the bike, and not as much extra room up front as your measurements might indicate.

Good luck.

Thanks. Yes, ive spent some time measuring stuff out. Today I marked out on the driveway the dimensions of a 6x12 and 6x14 with the bike sitting in the space and measured out where other things could start fitting and mapped it out on paper. I may adjust the trailer axle location before trying to move the bike farther forward. Ill have to see how it goes once I get serious about finding a trailer and where the bikes balance point ends up. Keeping the camper water and other things forward may help also. Maybe just bring more ammo for weight balancing....

One of my neighbors at Caballo Loco loves and trains horses. Every year he buys a couple upon arriving and sells them just before he leaves so he doesn't have to haul them and deal with the extra hassles at the border. He actually makes money but he is a good trainer and salesman. Maybe it would be less expensive to buy a bike in Arizona every winter and sell it before you leave?

That wouldnr work well in this case, besides the bike being old, being nowhere near stock, motor condition being a known quantity now including some performance work and fresh top end, quite a lot of personal changes made to make it closer to my taste, the sidecar is also somewhat uncommon to find used (this one came from Texas, and someone else went to buy it then changed his plan....), then theres all the mounts Ive had to buy and fabricate and adjust. All in all, I doubt I could duplicate it now for twice what I have in it. Once I get the motor changed around some (Panhead or early Shovel right case half with 8 rib cam cover and STD Pan heads) that may jump much higher for replacement cost vs my original cost.

This bike also had someone throw about $2k in chrome at it some time in the past, which in the big picture of my buying it used didnt affect the price much, but I now own that investment and am sort of liking all the shiny parts. Good chrome service is getting very hard to find and extremely expensive now as well. My local shop basically gave up on trying to send out parts for chrome work.

When I started this quest, I got lots of advice, "buy a such and such, theyre already done...". That doesnt work for me, I wasnt looking for "a bike with a sidecar, any bike with a sidecar", the only kind of bike I was interested in was an older H-D, a Knuckle (1936-47), Pan (1948-65) or Shovel (1966-84), set up in a certain style, with a certain type of sidecar. The Knuckles are now insanely expensive, Pans are on the way, and Shovels are moderately affordable. Its not quite where I want it as a final product, but I like it a lot and its getting close. So, the bike isnt for sale, Ill keep it until Im gone.