looking for group 24 true deep cycle FLA

[Seminole Wind]

i am a big fan of FLA golf cart batteries, but in a situation where i only have room/space for a single group 24 battery (roughly 10.5x7x9) and i want true deep cycle. not interested in agm/gell but looking for golfcart quality deep cycle batteries but in a 12 volt package that will fit in a group 24 battery box. i had hoped that i could find a flooded lead acid battery that was true deep cycle in the electric wheelchair/mobility scooter market but i am only finding agm/gell.

i know the true solution would be a custom lifepo4 lithium bank, but thats out of the question for now.

if anyone knows of a true deep cycle, flooded lead acid that fits in a group 24 battery box please post make and model and or a link to product.

thanks

 

[B and C]

https://www.amazon.com/Trojan-SCS15...&keywords=group+24+deep+cycle+batteries&psc=1

Trojan group 24 true deep cycle, not a marine battery. 100 Ah

 

[Seminole Wind]

thanks, i'll check it out.

have you (or anyone else) used these with good results, long life?

thanks

 

[Seminole Wind]

on the spec sheet ( http://www.trojanbattery.com/pdf/datasheets/SCS150_Trojan_Data_Sheets.pdf )

i dont see a number of cycles vs depth of discharge.

anyone have a link to that info, would like to compare that lifetime to other deep cycles.

not too hopeful of any battery being really deep cycle when they list cold cranking amps as a battery rating. but will hold out hope.

sent email to the company, will see what their response is

thanks again

 

[B and C]

I am using AGM batteries. My battery compartment is about the size of yours. One 125 Ah battery was not enough for me and would not fit there anyway. I ran new battery cables to the bottom of my kitchen cabinet where 3 AGM batteries now reside.

You seem to be locked into a group 24 battery dimensions in your current battery location. Moving the battery will give you more options as you can go to a bigger battery with more capacity.

Group 24 batteries will all probably have CCA listed as it really is a car battery size.

This page lists some of their Deep Cycle batteries: https://www.trojanbattery.com/products/deep-cycle-flooded/solar_signature-line-flooded/

You can dig around on their site for more battery options from their products tab at the top.

Trojan is a long trused battery MFG. There are others out there that have good names too and somebody will probably be along to tout them. The only personal experience I have with them is my friends trailer that has 4 - T105RE's. They are mounted on the tongue of his trailer. He had to custom install as original battery location would not hold that much battery.

 

[Seminole Wind]

moving batteries is not an option, finding the best deep cycle fla battery that fits within a group 24 battery box is the question

i know group 24 batteries are motor vehicle batteries that is why i am suspicious the trogen will have signifigant cycle life in true deep cycle service. i was not looking for the best group 24. i am looking for other options from other industries and disciplines that would fit with in the foot/cube print of the group 24. maybe something from a UPS or modem battery.

i'll keep looking my self. was just hoping someone here knew of something outside the box

 

[Trebor English]

According to the popular marine web site the sticker on the battery might have nothing to do with the actual content of the battery and only an autopsy will tell what you had.  Golf cart batteries are unique and easily distinguished from 6 cell batteries.  

I got a battery at Sam's.  The web ad at that time said it was not recommended for engine starting.  Now their ad says "For use in marine applications, EVs, trolling motors and wheelchairs" but I don't remember the marine part 2 years ago.  

Of the group size 24 it had the lowest cranking amp rating and the highest reserve capacity minutes and 20 hour amp hour capacity.  I have been using it 2 years.  I have not done an actual 20 hour down to 10.5 volt capacity test either new or after using it.  

It actually consumes water.  It probably does not have plates made of the lead calcium alloy used in maintenance free starter batteries.  Antimony would account for the water consumption.

https://m.samsclub.com/ip/duracell-marine-battery-group-size-24dcc/prod3590221?xid=plp_product_1_1

When I got mine they were $80.  Now they are still $80.  My plan is to have electricity at low cost.  A very most bestest battery might be nice.  The maximum number of cycles would also be nice.  For me the five to ten amp hour cycles per dollar is what counts.  When the solar is not working due to weather I sometimes go 2 or 3 days followed by several days to get a good recharge.  This battery, 24DCC, is working for me and I recommend it for those who want more depth of discharge than a starter battery will tolerate yet still only group size 24.  

My Ford Windstar original battery location will hold a group size 24.  That's why I only have that size.  I only have one battery so it  does starting and everything else too.  The original 3 year group size 59 is $100, $33 per year.  If the 24DCC lasts 3 years that's $27 per year with much greater usable capacity.  

My expectation is not to have Trojan golf cart quality but to only have good enough at a low cost.

 

[John61CT]

For 12V FLA in NA market,

avoid automotive or consumer retail channels

make sure **not** labelled Dual Use, nor talking about cranking at all, rated at 20-hour AH capacity.

Rolls Surrette at the top but unlikely, same for Superior.

Crown, Trojan or US Battery are good bets.

Deka last choice for 12V.

That's it. Likely half the longevity of GCs, best you're gonna get.

Call and ask for local distribution, go and pick up, you do not want anything shipped.

Maine Sail spiel https://marinehowto.com/what-is-a-deep-cycle-battery/

 

[DLTooley]

I’d like to see some specifics on the actual differences between a marine type battery and a ‘true’ deep cell.

The Walmart marine, perhaps the same as the Sam’s club referenced above, is likely the best for a starter/learner system as it has a one year replacement warranty. I’m approaching year five on mine.

Walmart offering the 6v batteries by custom order would be a good thing.

And as long as we are talking about the details of stereotypes consider the argument that total lifetime power is independent of DoD, more cycles yes, but not more total power.

 

[John61CT]

AFAIC total power throughput is irrelevant, only cycles count in House battery longevity.

Plus that total power throughput idea is purely theoretical, based on lab-produced charts that grossly underestimate the damage done by high DoD cycling in real life.

Doing that, combined with even moderate PSOC abuse can bring even a quality true deep cycling bank to EoL capacity walkdown in just a few months.

Abusing Wally's return policy will get you blacklisted pretty quick.

It would be very rare for a true deep cycle batt from a known-good manufacturer to ever require warranty service if treated properly, because they have **much better** QA processes in place than JCI who apparently makes all the meh brands in the NA market, other than more recent Chinese stuff.

The minimum quality true deep cycling battery like Duracell (actually Deka/East Penn) FLA deep cycle golf cart batteries

cost around $1 / AH @12V

No fraudulently labeled 12V "marine" battery from consumer retail will come close to that value for money, measured as $/AH **per year** even with an ignorant careless noob owner.

 

[John61CT]

Walmart offering the 6v batteries by custom order would be a good thing.

6V on its own is no indicator of quality.

If you mean more generally, "quality true deep cycling batteries"

Falling into Wally's clutches would only be "good" for consumers who care only about price, and then only for a short time.

Every market niche getting flattened into the lowest common denominator has destroyed so many goods categories where now there's nothing but plastic disposable garbage.

Not to mention the many thousands of smaller businesses providing a decent living to local families.

I realize I'm pissing into the wind here, but buying based only on price, letting quality and fair margins just disappear is IMO a major factor in the decline of our civilization.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I’d like to see some specifics on the actual differences between a marine type battery and a ‘true’ deep cell . . .

Rod Collins (MaineSail) at Compass Marine has done that.  A complete breakdown of the differences in battery types including cutting them apart:

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/deep_cycle_battery

 

[John61CT]

Please use the new site as I linked to above.

The old pbase one is not updated and will go away.

 

[Seminole Wind]

i had hoped this would not degrade into a battery quality/chemistry argument. there are plenty of other threads where you can ramble on about that. can we stick to topic and if you dont have a true deep cycle group "24 size" battery to suggest can you refrain from derailing this

 

[B and C]

Have you heard back from Trojan?

 

[Seminole Wind]

not yet, still the weekend. i'll check mail late tomorrow

 

[Seminole Wind]

here is the response from trojan, came in first thing this morning but just getting around to it now. funny thing is i sent one info request via their web page and got 2 responses from 2 different people at trojan. both were same numbers. see below quote for comparison to golfcart battery

Melvin Cobb <[email protected]>

7:30 AM (9 hours ago)

to me

Response:

Here is the cycle life info:

20% DOD @ 1500 cycle

30% DOD @ 1000 cycles

40% DOD @ 750 cycles

50% DOD @ 600 cycles

60% DOD @ 500 cycles



Question:

i am considering the Trojan SCS150 12 volt deep cycle battery as i need a true deep cycle battery and do not have room for a pair of golf cart 6v batteries. i downloaded the spec sheet pdf but it does not show the cycle life vs depth of discharge charts/graphs. can you provide me with that information.

looking at 50% depth of discharge you only get 600 cycles (under lad conditions for comparison, real world can be different)
if you look at the same data for these other trojan deep cycle batteries ******* J150, J185P-AC, J185H-AC,
J305P-AC, J305H-AC, T-605,T-105, T-125, T-145, L16P, L16H****** all of these are double the life cycles or more at same lab conditions. batteries from same company.

still looking for a real group 24 sized deep cycle that can last similar number of cycles

 

[B and C]

I am afraid you are going to have to put in a bigger battery to get those kinds of numbers. Those are all larger than a group 24. I only discharge to around 20% DOD myself.

I don't have anymore recommendations. I will be buying from them when the time comes.

Good luck on your quest.

 

[Seminole Wind]

i just may have to go lithium.

but i am still looking. i am hopeful there is some other industry out there that will cross over and give me what i am looking for.

as for only going to 20% depth of discharge. that will certainly give you lots of cycles. but that 0-20 range if the worst efficiency as far has the energy required to fully recharge the battery.

 

[B and C]

If you go lithium and use shore power to charge through your onboard converter/charger, that will need to be replaced with one that supports lithium. If you have solar, that will need to be reprogrammed for the different charging profile. You might have to get a DC/DC programmable charger or something else if you charge from the alternator while driving. Lots has to change, not just the battery. I temporarily thought about going this route next battery change but have decided against it.

I have solar charging too and this is what solar excels at is that last long charging tail. The ~20% DOD also gives me cushion for those less than ideal days. These are the reasons I relocated my batteries so I could have a bigger bank.