Looking for advice on purchasing a smallish (25-27' ish) 5th wheel

[Gemini1771]

Hi All!

My wife and I are new to RV life and trying to figure out what sort of rig will work best for us.

A little about us: We're two humans, two dogs and one cat. We'd like to go as remote as possible while still having an internet connection, so we'll be doing some dirt road driving. We'd like to avoid parks as much as possible (due to the cost and people) and stay on free camping land. We intend on getting solar and a composting toilet.

We've been watching a ton of videos, reading up on our options and going to RV shows. We think getting a 25-27 ish foot 5th wheel will work well for our needs. We've checked out the Winnebago Mini Plus and Micro Mini 5th wheels and like their size and weight. Does anyone have thoughts about these models? They haven't been on the market long, so I can't find any more than a year or so old and not many reviews. I like that you can get them with an "off road package", though I don't really know exactly what that includes besides more rugged tires. I believe they were preceded by the Winnebago Voyage 5er, which I've read some lemon reviews on. I've generally read lemon reviews on Winnebago, so I'm not sure about their overall quality. If anyone has thoughts about the Minnie Plus/ Micro Minnie or Winnebago in general, I'd love to hear them.

Several people have recommended getting an RV about 5 years old. There isn't a lot of local inventory in that size range. I've seen a number of 23 ish foot Komfort 5ers from the 1990's on craigslist and a handful of other brands at local dealers. We're going to check some out this weekend. Does anyone have any thoughts about a quality 5th wheel in the 25-27 ish foot range?

Also, if y'all have any additional thoughts about what sort of rig might work best for our needs, I'd love to hear them. There are so many options, I'm getting a little bit of option paralysis.

Thank you!
Ariel

 

[highdesertranger]

well IMO if it truly had an off road package it would have a Gooseneck and not a Fifth wheel hitch. just look around ranches and farms 90% of them use goosenecks. highdesertranger

 

[rm.w/aview]

There is a vague possibility that you may find a 5er in the lengths that you mentioned, but things open up considerably when you try to stay under 33'. The trailer will overhang the truck bed so the overall length is still good. Search at Keystone RV & Grand Design & Outdoors RV, all in their 5th wheel category.

 

[bullfrog]

Unless you are really well off and don't mind spending several thousand dollars just to find out what you want costs many thousands more you need to slow down if you are really new to RVing. I would suggest you get some experience as cheaply as possible, maybe come to where the caravans are, go to the RTR, join a camping group or club and visit with them at their events, cruse a local campground and make some friends, even borrow or offer to rent a camper similar in size to what you think you want to buy. You may find that the tow vehicle you will need will be more expensive than the trailer so let us know more about what you plan to tow this with and give us some ideas of where you will want to go. This process has taken most of us many years and lots of trial and error and we can help but you and we both need to know a lot more about you. How old and big are your pets? How well do you conserve water? What types of climate will you be in? How much solar do you plan on having? How many miles do you plan to travel and how often? What type of money do you plan to spend? I have found it best to make a list of must haves and then see what will work and what it will take to get it down the road to where I want to be.

 

[maki2]

You are in the Seattle area. North and South ends of Seattle have lots of used RV dealers. Go to the lots and walk into dozens of the units for sale that match your criteria. The best way to decide what is a good fit for the interior layout and options is to do some "open house" browsing. Don't let the sales people pressure you. Take your time, check everything out. Do you fit into the shower? Are the beds and seating comfortable. Is there enough space for eating and for working? Could you both be comfortable for a night of TV watching? Does the kitchen layout work for you?
Are the windows easy to operate? Are there enough plugins for 110 and for 12V? What is the size of the house battery? How about the holding tank capacity and the fresh water tank capacity?

The list is long so create a checklist and as you tour you will likely be adding more. You could also take along a video camera and make audible notes. That way you can later on go back and review the videos to compare models more easily. Our memories are not always as accurate as we think they are.

 

[DannyB1954]

Not to talk you out of a Fifth wheel, but have you looked into bumper pull trailers? There are many in that size range and you can put a shell on the pickup and use it for storage.
What I have seen people do with trailers is take the axle that is usually mounted on top of the spring pack and move it to below the springs. This will give you more ground clearance. You might also be able to put on taller wheels and tires.
A cargo trailer that is converted will tend to be more durable on rough roads.

 

[Gemini1771]

Thanks all, for the words of wisdom!

We currently live in a 350 sq ft studio with murphy bed, so an RV won’t be too much of a downsize. I’m not super fond of narrow spaces though, so at least one slide out would be great. We’ll live in the RV in the Seattle area for a couple of years and go on short trips, and then hit the road full time after that. We’re looking at our local parking/ land options now. I'm not really a city person and our tiny (very tiny) patch of green yard isn't doing it for me.

We’d like to travel all over: Alaska, northern Canada, California, Oregon, New York and Florida are a few places that we’d like to go. We’ll both have to work at least part time from the road for income (I do graphic design and my partner is in marketing), so we need internet. We’d like to go as remote as possible while still having internet. It seems like a lot of the even slightly remote places in WA don't have cell signals, so I'm not really sure how remote we can get without loosing internet connectivity.

Our dogs are smallish and don’t need much of their own space. My border collie likes to squish herself into the smallest space possible, so she won't mind tiny(er) living. We’re definitely going to have to work on water conservation- I’m preparing myself for fewer showers, learning to wash dishes with less water and giving up the luxury of a washing machine. We’ll probably park in a place with hookups to begin with as we figure out our water/ solar needs.

We’re looking at purchasing a Ford F150. We’re still not 100% set on the type of trailer, but we’re fairly certain we don’t want anything bigger than what an F150 can handle.

5th wheels feel more open to me and I hear they are more stable on the road, but we are considering a travel trailer as well. I hear maybe bumper pull trailers are better on bumpy roads because you don't have bed clearance issues? I've also read that sliding 5th wheel hitches and gooseneck conversions can help with clearance issues? I read somewhere that you can take 5th wheels on most roads you'd take your commuter sedan on- does that sound about right? I mean, I know turn around, top clearance and road width is an issue with a large vehicle too. I tool around on forest roads in my 2 door toyota yaris now, and I wouldn't imaging I'd be going more "off road" than that in a trailer.

My wife is into airstreams at the moment- the price and lack of side outs makes them less appealing to me, but I like how minimal they are. I have a hard time imagining that an old airstream would do well on dirt roads. Any thoughts there?

We’re heading to the RV dealers this weekend to check out the options. There are SO MANY OPTIONS! Way too much to choose from!

Thanks all for the advice!
Ariel

 

[highdesertranger]

you didn't mention slide outs. slide outs and off road don't play well together. they get misaligned then don't seal well. then you need to realign it. which isn't all that hard but it's not all that easy either.

also IMO a F-150 is a poor choice for a tow vehicle. I believe 3/4 ton to be a minimum for towing. a F-150 has more in common with a T-bird then a F-250.

highdesertranger

 

[Gemini1771]

On the note of towing with an F-150, if we went with a winnebago mini plus (GVWR (lbs.) 9,995) or micro minnie (GVWR (lbs.) 7,700), do you still think an F-150 is a poor choice for a towing vehicle? One reason that we're looking at those particular models is how lightweight they are. They are both within the towing capacity of newer F-150's though I just watched a video where the guy said he'd never tow a 5th wheel with a 1/2 ton truck. He was looking at a 12,000 GVWR 5th wheel that claimed to be 1/2 ton towable.

Thanks!!

 

[bullfrog]

Full timing means more stuff usually than you would have for a 2 week camping trip. We used to be able to spot full timers by the step ladder strapped on the camper for example. So most trailers get over weight quickly. Having a 3/4 ton truck is a huge difference when towing, if nothing else safety is enhanced. Slide outs add weight, have seals prone to problems, moving parts to wear out and because of this are prone not to operate properly as they get older. A bumper pull trailer leaves the bed of the truck if equipped with a good topper for lots of storage for items you may not want to store inside the trailer.

 

[DannyB1954]

The tow ratings are based primarily on flat land. If you are anywhere in the West, the steep grades will challenge a small truck both up and down hill. What one can do and should do can be two different things. Can the half ton truck stop you if you are going down a steep grade and the electric trailer brakes fail? Those brakes can stop 5,000 lbs, can they stop 10,000? Will the suspension handle the weight of the fifth wheel or will you need air bags, and heavy sway bars. How will the smaller rear axle handle the weight? Will you also be able to use the truck bed for storage, or will that along with the trailer push you over your limit.
Going with a bigger truck also gives you more options. Maybe you will want a truck camper later. Maybe you will want a larger 5th wheel.

 

[rm.w/aview]

The towing ability of a truck is also related to the cargo capacity of a truck, which is why the F150 or the 1500 series  (1/2 ton) isn't suitable for towing a 5er. A general rule is for 20% - 25% of the 5th wheel's weight to be on the pin which is in the bed of the truck, and for 10% - 15% of the travel trailer's weight to be on the ball (tongue weight). The brochures and websites should have a GVWR which is the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating for a particular trailer and this is the most weight that the trailer is designed for. This is a good number to use for your calculations, along with the GVWR of the truck and the GCVWR or GCWR  (Gross Combined Weight Rating) of the truck. The cargo capacity of a truck is very vehicle specific as it depends on how the vehicle was optioned & bed size. This number will be inside the driver's door on a sticker. Half ton trucks are fortunate to have about 1500 pounds of cargo capacity which would include people and gear. 3/4 & 1 ton trucks will have a greater cargo cap as well as breaks designed to go along with the truck's greater towing/carrying ability. Another factor in towing is the frontage of the trailer and it's punching through the air as it is being towed, something that is written in the owner's manual. You may have heard that you can never have too much truck, this is a true statement in that if the truck and trailer are matched well all is good, and if the trailer is light for the truck all the better. Find a trailer that you can live with and only then find a truck to match or your trailer choice will be limited by the truck and it's abilities.

 

[rm.w/aview]

One more thing that could be of interest. When I was looking for a 5er I also looked at horse trailers that have living quarters in them, and most did not have slides. Some people order a trailer with the purpose of it being a toy hauler instead of a horse hauler which is very convenient and parallels the thinking behind HDR's post earlier about gooseneck vs 5th wheel. These trailers are built to haul so the hitch area is more substantial, plus they are not nearly as tall as 5th wheels in many cases so you'll be doing less tree trimming with the trailer.

 

[tripper]

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I have a 1993 24ft 5th wheel. I really love it and have it set up quite nicely.  The older 5th wheels are MUCH lighter than the newer ones (mine is 4000 lbs for example). I met someone at the RTR a few years back that had a 22' Alpinelight 5th wheel (1990 or so model) that had a beautiful interior setup. I like towing my small 5th wheel as it is almost like it is not there. I flipped the axles fro ground clearance and can now tow it to some very rugged off road spots.  Of course the older ones will not have slide outs, but to put it in perspective, I have only had one problem with my 5th wheel in 10 years of frequent boondocking use and that was caused by me turning at too sharp of an angle and the 7 pin hitch cord got stuck on something in the bed, totally my fault and not the rigs.  On the plus side you can get old small 5th wheel in excellent shape super cheap, then use the extra money to customize it the way you like.  I can tell you mine has a really strong fully boxed in frame that appears to be much stronger than the newer ones have. My 5th wheel is very short too, not super tall.

BTW I can hook the 5th wheel up to the truck in 1 minute and be ready to hit the road, much easier than a bumper pull. Also total vehicle and fiver length are much shorter than a bumper pull; my 22 ft long truck and 24 ft long 5th wheel are only 40 ft end to end.

 

[tripper]

BTW pic of my 5th wheel, 4000lb lightweight, narrow (srw truck width helps a lot in national forests) and low height even with axles flipped for ground clearance.

 

[maki2]

if you are going to be living in it in Washington state then a 4 seasons trailer is going to be a better choice. Slideouts are not well insulated. It will be very uncomfortable to be in a slide-out bedroom in the winter time.

There are compromises to living in the Northwest. It is wet and it is cold and the damp cold can make your life miserable for more than half the year.

 

[highdesertranger]

note when Tripper said flip the axle you don't actually flip the axle you move it from spring under to spring over. highdesertranger

 

[Gemini1771]

Okay, y'all convinced me that a more powerful truck is the way to go unless we go super tiny.

It's great to hear that people are having success with older 5th wheels- there are more smaller options in the older models. I'm not super fond of the RV stock decor, so some DIY remodeling would make it more homey. Itripper- you have an awesome set up! Thanks for sharing!

Thanks for the heads up that slideouts don't hold heat well- noted! I don't like being cold...

We're going to check out some older models today.

Thanks all for the advice!

 

[maki2]

You will also need a 4 season model because the water and waste tanks and water lines are heated. Otherwise you can get issues with those items that are located underneath freezing in very cold weather. That is always a possible in the Pacific NW region in the winter time. It is a must have for you if you plan to live in it.

 

[bullfrog]

Price wise you will be getting much more for your dollars buying used if you can avoid water damage and rust. You can have new axles or rebuild the ones you get if not to badly worn or damaged. Usually the water heater, refrigerator and old electrical fixtures will soon need replaced if they haven't been already. If you get one with a good roof and no soft floor (all doors should open and close well) then you can customise it to your purpose for much less than a new one plus it won't hurt near as bad if you back it into a tree as old wood frame/metal siding is an easy repair.